Tankless Water Heater to Make CO2... WITHOUT WASTING WATER

[brown_thumb]

http://m.homedepot.com/p/MAREY-2-0-...obileweb_pip_rr-2-_-204357327-_-203378689-_-N


About 34,600 btu

Propane gives off 21,600 BTUs per pound,
So 1.6 lbs and hour running
Probably don't want to burn it for less than a minute. They don't start up instantly, and burn it a little shitty at first.
So for one minute, about 0.43oz of propane burned.

C3H8 + 5O2 = 3 CO2 & 4H2O

26 + 80 = 66 + 40

So you get 66/26 * 0.43= 1.1 Oz of CO2 per minute of burn time.

A cubic foot of air is roughly 1.3 oz.

So to rase from 400 ppm to 1400ppm would require 0.0013 oz of CO2

So 1.1oz/0.0013= 846 cubic feet.

I would say it could work, it would be crude and co2 levels would have to swing between cycles. I am not concerned with the few gallons Iof water cooling down.

In practice this will be more complicated and experience to set up than something designed for growing.
Also, I feel that most people jump to co2 too soon. There are lots of ways to boost yield that are less expensive. If you do have everything already tuned it perfectly, it's a good step to turn everything up to 11. But if somethings are only getting turned up to 5, co2 isn't going to help much.

I've yet to research whether a tankless water heater can be controlled by a CO2 monitor/controller but I suspect it can be done. Now that I've found a local business that sells tanks/refills, I have to decide whether to go with a CO2 tank or a tankless water heater.

 

[coldcanna]

Another point here is that the propane heaters are designed to be vented outside, specifically to not raise levels of co2 or co. Simply not venting it would run the risk of monoxide poisoning or death. Buy the co2 man

 

[brown_thumb]

Okay, I'm convinced. I'll buy a CO2 bottle.

 

[MrBungle]

Most tankless water heaters are ultra high efficient and utilize pvc to exhaust any flue gas....
you dont want to be dumping flue gas into your garden there is a high chance of carbon monoxide poisoning doing that....
if you don't have a legitimate reason to use your tankless heater like for your kitchen sink and hot showers its probably not a good call to install it..
Besides the hidden costs of installation (repiping from a traditional hot water tank to tankless) will make it totally a big waste of $$$... go with a lp can or even those mushroom compost co2 releasing bags

 

[jocat]

Sunlight supply catalog has the water heater for a co2 gen system, i just happened to notice this as i was flipping through it one day, what caught my eye was the unit was the exact same one I had purchased on amazon for use outside & for heating winter water going into reservoirs, from the description it sounds like the water transfers the heat the burner makes and the exhaust, like a little buddy heater is providing heat- co2 without creating a toxic environment, I have used that technique and it's doable for a small space with supervision, bottles hooked to controllers are the easiest way.

 

[JJ Lowe]

Sorry for the late response, but yeah, I purchased a small portable hot water heater using tanked propane. Hooked up a water pump and circulated water through to activate the burner. Had to upgrade to a larger pump, just recirculated it using a 5 gallon bucket. It ended up being a mess, couldn't get it to fire consistently. Probably needed a more powerful pump.. I ended up cutting my losses and going to the bottle.. haven't looked back since..
good luck.
Jj

 

[brown_thumb]

Once I have the cash in hand I'll buy a bottle and environmental controller.

 

[JJ Lowe]

Once I have the cash in hand I'll buy a bottle and environmental controller.

You can pick up a co2 meter and digital cycle timer. It's cheaper than buying a controller. It's really easy to dial in. Plus it saves your bottle if you forget to close the growroom door or forget to turn a vent fan off.
Jj

 

[JJ Lowe]

You could even get buy without the co2 monitor. Just start with the bottle regulator and a digital cycle timer. Surprising how accurate those co2 room calculators are. As long as your room is properly sealed.
Jj

 

[brown_thumb]

JJ, do you have a recommendation for a meter and timer?

 

[Levitationofme]

In a small grow space, is there really a need for co2? I have never had a problem filling a small grow space. I ran co2 tank with a Titan sensor kept levels close to upper limit of the device when lights were on. I am not sure it made a big difference. Perhaps if I had everything else dialed in and that was the next variable to mess with I might try again.


All the professional growers I know who grow indoors in Colorado run Co2. Large rooms with tons of room and light and all the correct
conditions for the co2 to be most useful.


At what scale is running co2 really useful?


I went thru the Make my own Co2 with Sugar water and Yeast phase, then graduated to the Tank setup.

Perhaps running high CO2 during the last month of Flowering?

Minor problem where growing weed is not legal
is welding shop employees realizing what you are doing.
Basically one of the reasons I stopped.

 

[HarvestMoon303]

I guess my first question for you here is.... an actual co2 tank and regulator isnt any more expensive that a heater so why not just buy the correct equipment?

Yep, this is not a good plan, and honestly, even adding bottled CO2 isn't "all that". I would concentrate on other areas of the grow. You need a perfect environment for CO2 to do anything except cost $.

LP is expensive in the winter (it's close to $5/gal here). I wouldn't waste it.

 

[brown_thumb]

So there may be no forms of CO2 that are worth messing with for a small grow of 10-30 plants? If that's true then I'll be very happy to save to costs and hassles.

 

[Bobby Boucher]

Bruh, just stick a propane pencil torch under a big covered pot of water on "pilot" and tilt the pot a few degrees to prevent condensate from dripping on the pilot. $20 water cooled lp co2 generator. Even if your pilot was extinguished, you would only leak ~1/10 a lb of propane a day. Coupled up with a gas leak detector and you should be gravy. 1lb of propane keeps my co2 between 1000-1200 for about a week. The pot of water retains most of the heat. Always use smoke/gas/carbon monoxide detectors if you are playing with gas and fire, let alone all the water and electricity. My advice; worth its cost. Don't blow yourself up.

Also.. in my experience, co2 works best with higher temps and humidity. Could be strain dependent.

 

[Levitationofme]

very cool, I like that.

I have read that Co2 works best with the higher temps and humidity as well.
I also read that when using LED's you can up the temp a little more then usual to make more use as well.

here is some good reading.

https://www.blackdogled.com/lst/

https://www.blackdogled.com/blog/lst/

 

[DoubleTripleOG]

Another point here is that the propane heaters are designed to be vented outside, specifically to not raise levels of co2 or co. Simply not venting it would run the risk of monoxide poisoning or death. Buy the co2 man

This is wrong. They make several models of propane burning heaters that are meant for indoors, with no venting necessary. Raise in co2 yes, raise in CO, not likely. Maybe if the unit is not working correctly. If they were as dangerous as your making them out to be, they would have been off the market along time ago. Here's a cheap one that would put out more than enough c02 for his needs.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Reddy-Heater-10-000-BTU-Blue-Flame-Dual-Fuel-Wall-Heater-BWH10NLMDC/100672686

That would be overkill, especially being in Texas(extra heat). If it were me I would go for something like this, with the option of only having a single burner going at a time.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Auto-Pilot-Hydroponic-Greenhouse-CO2-4-Burner-Generator-LP-GAS-/152036006491?hash=item23660d5a5b:g:zj0AAOSwAYtWMq1-

(actually this is the exact model I have. Works like a dream. A 20 lb. LP tank easily lasts a week, sometimes more.)

 

[Can of Bliss]

I've yet to research whether a tankless water heater can be controlled by a CO2 monitor/controller but I suspect it can be done. Now that I've found a local business that sells tanks/refills, I have to decide whether to go with a CO2 tank or a tankless water heater.

It actually wouldn't be too difficult. You would just have to wire your CO2 controler up to a relay controlling a water pump (or solenoid valve if you wanted to waste water).

 

[Bobby Boucher]

I've been burning co2 for as long as I've been growing. Keeping things sealed/semi-sealed has required me to do so. Only now that my sensorpushes are logging my rh and temps and my humidifiers are keeping my vpd dialed in, am I really seeing regular explosive growth. I've seen it before over the years, but only when the stars lined up in my favor.

I'd skip out on wasting any gas until you have your environment dialed to your strain. Once you do though, verifiably, turn some co2 on and see what happens. Watching what the co2 does to my sativas in their 85/80 sauna has made me completely re-evaluate gpw potential.

Could just be strain specific, but jesus H.. Wow. Embarrassing to think how long it took me to get with this picture, especially having seen it done before.. I would blame it on the shitty hygrometer I bought all those years ago, but.. I was the one who bought it and never bothered to cross-check it. Growing without a quality temp/rh tracker is a freaking crap shoot, ime. Let alone drying the shit..

 

[jocat]

I spent a little time setting this up today, the tankless hot water heater sits in the flower room, hung in a safe area so the rain cap has air space around it, the plumping runs through the wall to a 2 55G connected barrels, little giant NK1 pump connected to the co2 sensor, when the pump is activated by the co2 levels falling, nutrient flows through the heater back into the res, recirculating and aerating, the burner transfers the heat, not all, most, into the nutrient/water flowing through, no waste, maybe half the heat of the burner, all the exhaust Co2 stays in the flower room, the unit cycles on & off, the nutrient temps stay the same as if it were July with no heat, this would add some extra heat over a bottled gas system but could be the right fit for the right situation, always good to have options. this thread sparked a light in my brain, ever since i saw it in the catalog i had been wondering how it might all work, trick is a pump that moves enough to trigger the flame strike. Niffty as shit.

 

[JJ Lowe]

JJ, do you have a recommendation for a meter and timer?

Any cheap digital cycle timer would do.
I'm using the autopilot co2 desktop monitor.
Depending on where you live, there are usually regulators and bottles floating around on Craig's list for cheap. I'm in socal so, tons of used gear always for sell around here. Remember to always clean, disinfect, steam, microwave, nuke any equipment coming from another grower. All kind of bad critters out there just waiting to jump on your plants...