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Sure to Grow Inserts - Ebb&Gro Trial

C

Cheeb

Hey all,

In efforts to get away from heavy, dirty hydroton I'm trying out the new sure to grow cylinders made to fit in the ebb&gro buckets.

Getting these inserts into the house and loading the system was a BREEZE compared to hauling in heavy hydroton, rinsing it in the basement, then having to lug it to my upstairs bedroom. These inserts weigh nothing..can be brought into the house in a small box or 2...and from there its simply plug and play.

They had a small square part in the center of the cylinder where they punched the hole. I pushed this down and plugged my rapid rooter right down in the hole.

I'm flooding 15min every 3 hours/ 24buckets on the Ebb&Gro. Is this ideal? who knows?

The clones were not GREAT, and did take a few weeks to get moving. I'm not sure if this was STG related ..or something else I was doing. I was getting roots out of the STG bottom, and really thick trunk growth..but no foilage growth. What gives? It was almost like I had a ton of RUNTS!

I bumped nutes to full 8/16 (lucas) and things seem to moving right along now. Heres the pics. No idea what day they are on - will start counting come bloom. Half the room is 1 week ahead of the other half so I may not end up with a very even canopy.

Sorry for the shitty pics - cell phone cam





So far - So GOOD!

I love the ease of setup and pure cleanliness of these things.
I worried about plant support and whether or not the roots are actually filling the entire cylinder and not just going straight to the bottom of the insert. The top of my insert seems dry..while the bottom is full and floppy with water.. its kinda weird.

We'll see how it performs against Hydroton. Hell.. even if I dont yield as well..if its not that bad I'd convert to STG strictly on EASE alone. I cannot wait NOT to have to deal with stone at harvest.

Anyone else using these STG inserts - chime in with any info.

Note - Algea has been a non-issue provided the top of the cylinder doesnt get wet. I had one or 2 deformed cylinders which wanted to sag around an edge and get wet. Algea grew. I raised the buckets and left the controller on the floor and we are good. I do have a white ebb and gro bucket..which allows light to hit the side of the cylinder - major algea..quickly got that covered up.

Peace
Cheeb
 
D

dongle69

STG was smart to come out with these.
One reason I didn't get an ebb and gro system years back was because I didn't want to deal with hydroton.
I hope it works out!
 
Londinium

Londinium

Well-known member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I cant get the inserts here yet but have used the loose STG in a mix with Mapito and on its own in veg,but want to wait for the inserts before I use in in my main ebb and flood buckets...will be poppin in if ya dont mind Cheeb? STG does hold(not hold?)water in a weird way but I also hate Hydroton and fed up with itchy loose rockwool as well,so have been looking out for new media thats easy to deal with. JBo
 
C

cashmunny

Member
I haven't found Rockwool to be itchy but I'm a noob. I'm using the 6 inch blocks.

I read in another thread somewhere (maybe it was in this one, I don't know I'm blazed :joint:) that the STG wasn't a very umm....firm support for a big plant. Maybe a little too soft? Any comments?
 
B

BigForest

Member
I got 24 too cant wait to try'em but time is money i know what im harvesting from hydroton
great thread i was so geeked when i seen them and the stores and even humblodt nutes backing them.But results are everything i agree i do not look forward to cleaning hydroton.
looking good cheeb i heard raising them (the e&f buckets) like you have done will get more water out of the bottom of the buckets under the grommet, but you said your controller is not raised this works huh?
 
M

Ms Carter

Member
This is the most important thread on ICmag right now, hands down! If you are successful with these cubes, we will call them "Cheeb Cubes" and your name will go down in infamy. Please keep us updated on your progress. What do you think of them so far? What stage are you in?
 
C

Cheeb

thanks for all the replies.

the switch from hydroton was stricly due to labor and ease. 24 ebb pots of stone really hurts my back..trimming is enough of a job at the end to have to think about pulling 200L or so of hydroton and replacing with new (I dont clean hydroton). This will be unpopular but EVEN if I yield a bit less I may switch 100% to these provided everything goes OK. Its just easier.

I got a glimpse of these STG inserts early in their infancy and didnt give them much thought. It wasn't until C.A.P jumped on board and Humboldt Nutrients started supporting them to give me the OK to try a run with them.

I guess i just gon't like the idea of growing directly in a petrolium product.that stuff is plastic right?
Click to expand...
I think its PET..Really doesnt bother me - I wont be smoking the medium - its merely there to hold the plants. I surely hope it has no underlying impact on my health. :eek:

The STG does hold water in a very weird way.. top will be slightly dry - the bottom floppy wet.. but its working now so I'm crossing my fingers for a successful harvest. If I lift a cylinder out of the bucket water pours out of the bottom of the STG cylinder.

I may be kicking myself in the ass come heavy nug time when I have to tie up EVERYTHING..hope not - but we'll get there when we get there.
I'm not a huge fan of tying as cannabis makes me break out with little bumps all over my arms when working closely with the plants..but toss a long leave shirt and gloves would be a small trade off from hauling stone if I do have to extensively tie or trellis the garden.

My buckets are raised on 2" sections of foam. The controller sits on the ground so that the buckets drain better. Earlier on I had the controller raised too so that I was getting a high flood height for initial clone transplant. This IS my 1st time raising the buckets however so I cannot comment if its superior or not..nor will I be able to due to the many variables of this grow.

Will post more pics once things get more interesting.

Take Care All,
CHEEB
 
B

BigForest

Member
i get lil bumps too from certain strains allgergic reaction i think? do yours go away pretty quik too?any how deciding to make a run with the stg ive order them all ready i want to make a run with them but folks on here are pretty pessimesstic or how ever it spelled.So are you vegging 4 weeks? or just a couple??? im thinking of going 4weeks maybe give em extra time to realy be vigourous and healthy in new medium,even though i do 4weeks in the hydrotonballs but such a pain like you im sold just on the clean up factor may be im to lazy.
 
J

JackKerouac

Does the ebb and grow require a lot more water because the inserts don't displace any nutrient solution in the buckets?
 
Seed Buyer

Seed Buyer

Member
I was told by the peeps at CAP the STG inserts do NOT wick up water from the lower bucket. But the fact your inserts are always wet seems to contradict what they were saying. Do you think your inserts are wicking water up causing the bottom of the inserts to always be wet?
 
C

Cheeb

Hey,
Does the ebb and grow require a lot more water because the inserts don't displace any nutrient solution in the buckets?
Click to expand...
I'm sure it would at some point. I'm only doing 24 buckets and start off at 55gal full. They are drinking a lot of water despite their not so perfect health.


I have my buckets raised 2" above controller level so they should drain nearly complete. I can no longer pull the STG insert out as the roots have grown out of the bottom of the inner bucket. It seems like I may be getting more growth between my inner and outer bucket -then in the STG itself - but I'll only know that when I cut one in half after harvest. There are not any roots on the outside side walls of the STG cylinder. I'm curious if the roots are filling this STG cylinder well..

When I could pull the STG insert out it would be floppy wet - just at the bottom..and water would pour out of it. I cant say if they are wicking though - or just staying wet.

Just today I increased my time between floods to 4 hours vs the 3 I was doing. We'll see if things perk up. The plants have been sucking down water and nutes, but are not perky and dont see to have the vigor, but its most likely just something I'm not doing right. Growth seems slow to me.

I'm experiencing some type of deficiency (brown rust spots near the tips of lower leaves - lucas 1.8EC or so - 5.8 or so pH). Little bit of twisting new growth. Any tips? I know people are going to say Cal def..but everything I've read says lucas 8/16 shouldn't need it. I'm using RO.

I always seem to hit some bumps and trouble with lucas until I start blooming. Then things normally do a 180 and things go fine.

Does anyone know the true ideal flood time with these things? Or what CAP is suggesting? Surely someone has tried these things? The little I've read ..flood times where all over the place. Its hard to tell ..as the top seems dry (like brand new), while the bottom seems full of water.

NOTE - I want to make it clear that I'm not blaming STG for my few issues and hiccups..I believe it is merely my lack of experience and ability to get shit dialed properly. I have high hopes for this product. I NEED these to be great.



cheeb
 
Capn

Capn

Member
Have you checked the medium right before your flood cycle begins to see how dry it gets? Your roots seem to be happy so i doubt its the STG... Maybe overfeeding?
 
K

Kinderliving

New member
cheeb what'd u cover the white bucket with to stop the algea, i just designed a bucket system outta white buckets and am gonna need to fix the color/transparency of them before I run them monday...any help???
 
Mist

Mist

Member
I looked at the STG inserts a couple weeks ago at my local hydro store and those guys at the store are all hyped up about them, but I still bought my hydroton. They just seem too floppy to me.
My main concern isn't that the plants will fall over since the roots, as seen in Cheeb's system, grow out the bottom of the insert and will lock it in place. But there is the factor of the heavy weight of a large budded plant collapsing the insert downward and crushing the root system under it's own weight.
As far as the insert remaining wet at the bottom, I don't see that as being an issue. Hydroton stays wet just a couple inches down from the top and totally saturated in the lower few inches of the insert all the time between feedings. We just don't normally have the option of looking at it by pulling the whole plant out like you could with the STG inserts. You will notice this with an Ebb&Gro when you pull your root system out after harvest. My hydroton was still soaked a day after I had harvested and the system had been off for 24 hours.
My last concern with these inserts is with air flow. I have been looking at some other mediums such as Dyna-Rok II to get better air to the roots. It is larger and leaves larger spaces between the medium for air to pass through. This being said, when I looked at the STG inserts the FIRST thing that I noticed was how small the pores were which leads me to believe that air isn't going to pass through them as easily as it does with even hydroton. And isn't that the whole point of this system to suck air down into the root area when it drains?
On the feeding shedule issue, I don't think that is you problem. Or maybe it wasn't before you switched to STG. I feed for 30 minutes every 3 hours around the clock. I know this is way different than most people do it since I have read that most users of this system only feed every 4-6 hours for 15 minutes and then only during the lights on cycle.
So I will be very interested to see how this grow comes out. I hope you get your brown spots issue sorted out and keep the pictures coming.
 
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