Diesel dreams
Member
Physan 20 please
Physan 20 please
Bump with pics...
Physan 20 please
Bump with pics...
Strange Slime buildup on roots
- Thread starter guice
- Start date
StoopheadFred
Member
Thank you all SO MUCH for putting this information out there. I thought the whole idea of "beneficial bacteria" was a crock of shit before I read this thread and tried it for myself.
I'm in DWC buckets with the temps peaking at 90. Lost my last round of plants to the root rot after trying Physan 20 and H2O2 (3% and 35%). I thought I was going to have to give up DWC and deal with soil after that happened but it's been ~3 weeks and my plants are looking great! Roots and all!
I'm just using blackstrap molasses and earthworm castings to make my tea and so far it's working great.
I'm in DWC buckets with the temps peaking at 90. Lost my last round of plants to the root rot after trying Physan 20 and H2O2 (3% and 35%). I thought I was going to have to give up DWC and deal with soil after that happened but it's been ~3 weeks and my plants are looking great! Roots and all!
I'm just using blackstrap molasses and earthworm castings to make my tea and so far it's working great.
some cats like bennies.
some cats run dead rez.
i'm in the second camp.
this is pool shock, sm-90, and a 36 watt UV pond sterilizer:
regardless of the method you like, here's the good news: you know all that noise you hear about how once you've got hydro herpes in your system it's there forever—that's a bunch of bullshit.
some cats run dead rez.
i'm in the second camp.
this is pool shock, sm-90, and a 36 watt UV pond sterilizer:
regardless of the method you like, here's the good news: you know all that noise you hear about how once you've got hydro herpes in your system it's there forever—that's a bunch of bullshit.
Just drop the coin on a proper chiller for your setup and you'll be good to go. You can't grow hydro without one except in the smallest of spaces. The sheer heat from the light will warm up any hydro way past it's capabiltiies without a chiller. Root rot is certain above 72*F water temp. Physan is a great supplement but it's not a cure.
Im still slime free after running all tap water through a 3 stage RO and a UV sterilizer AND adding heavy amounts of Physan20 to the fresh water and the res every few days (250gallons total volume). Bleach for cleaning out the system. No water touches my roots until it's been cleaned. No more slime. Very cheap investment of $150 for a 3stage RO and $60 for UV sterilizer at petsmart. Replace both filters every couple crops and the slime is history.
Hairydodger
New member
I don't think it was Physan 20 that caused your problem. I put 10ml in 30 gallons in both my systems. All it did was kill the algae. I use it and add 2.5ml more about every 5 days.
It's an honor to finally post a worthy message on this thread...what I consider to be one of the best threads out there on DWC and Brown slime...(the other good one is by Heisenburg which I will post this there also).
In late 2010 I got my legal license and started a DWC system (~40 buckets, too big for an individual bucket system IMO) after being out of the game for about five years; it looked like a great concept. First pull was pretty good (2#/1000W/8wks) but there was one plant in the system that was stunted and had yucky brown roots, all others were a typical tan color. The second run was a complete disaster (0.5#/1000W/8ks); brown slime on all the roots. Then again, and again...AAAARRGGHH. I read almost all the posts regarding DWC and brown slime (starting with this great thread back when there were only 75 pages or so). That shit f#$@ed me up so bad I wanted to put a BUD to my head and pull the trigger!! But, momma ain't raised no quitter...so...
I read some more of these type of threads and soon realized 90% of the people on these forums have little to no logic (maybe due to their meds??). So I went back to university and took a couple botany classes (already have a physics degree and electrical engineering degree, not that they helped me here)...and...wait for it...
I have tried:
-chillers,
-tea (Heisenberg's recipe),
-H202 (hydrogen peroxide),
-physan20,
-bleach (I stunk so much my kids all thought I was swimming),
-Ridomil Gold,
-Actinovate,
-PrevicurN,
-Aquashield,
-Subdue Maxx,
-ZHO powder,
-Erythromycin,
-Rhapsody,
-Truban,
-praying to god,
-posting on these forums,
-nute variations
etc etc... these are ALL RIGHT!! and kinda ALL WRONG!! lol...the secret???...
I eventually gave up on DWC, but not completely, I had to keep some buckets around until I solved the problem ('member what I said a bout mamma!!!)...here it is...
From DAY1 you really need to protect your roots with some form of beneficial fungi (funguy or funji, either is fine, lol) and grow the roots and the fungi TOGETHER (the absolute key is prevention). Hydro stores (the biggest rip off businesses besides government and cell phone companies) will sell some brands but never really ever tell you what's in it because then you can go buy it for 5-10 cents on the dollar! But the one that did work extremely well (for me, yours may be different) was AQUASHILED from Botanicare (this was part of Heisneburg's recipe which I of course tried with moderate success). On my last run with the DWC I used Aquashield from day one and never chilled the water (got up to 83F), never even changed the nutes (just kept adding and let the extra spill out of an overflow hole (drilled at the right height so as to prevent overfilling)). I added fresh nutes with Dosmatic dosers. I ended up taking out my 400HP diesel air pump (yes, i'm joking but it was huge) and went to a 'relatively' tiny one. Lo and behold, beautiful white roots all the way through and a great yield (2+#/1000W/8wks). And then I ripped the rest of the DWC system out and sent it to hell with a good kick in the ass.
Remember, IMO, all the discussion of brown slime in RWC are likely different types of water molds (Oomycetes), diatoms, fungi, and bacterias...or you may have a suite of them. These all come from water wells, your ass (nope, not kidding), your lunch (soon to be at your ass), the air, the dirt outside. One thing I learned in all those botany classes is that these little microbes ARE EVERYWHERE (from your gf's box to your mammas armpit...everywhere)!!! This is why different solutions are working for different people and some are not. However, a shield such as Aquashield can protect from many of these. Another to look at closely is Trichoderma Harzianum (sold as Rootshield (granules or wettable powder) but not at hydro stores, careful it has a shelf life)...(http://www.bioworksinc.com/products/shared/rootshield.pdf)
Now I use rockwool cubes (hugos and bigmammas) with a drain to waste system and the Rootshield mentioned above. WAY WAY easier because I can move buckets around, empty the room completely and quickly between crops, no F#$%ing leaks, etc. I do not use Aquashield because I have no idea what it is; screw you Botanicare. This is why they, and many other manufacturer's, always show a 'token' nutrient value (0.02-0.04-0.01 for Aquashield) on their products, because then they can sell it as a nutrient which requires a 'guaranteed minumum' nutrient level for the NPK, however if they sold it as a 'treatment' they would have to list the 'active ingredient' along with its concentration.
I think Heisenburg's tea works great but it's like a fragmentation grenade...a whole bunch of functional little death shards but no real precision. 'Kinda' like having a headache and taking aspirin, tylenol, ibuprofen, tums, peptobismol etc just to make sure you get that headache taken care of. So the tea is a great place to start and get some instant results. However I wanted a more sniper like approach, difficult without an exact identification of the pathogen one is dealing with however.
That's my take, but hey it's just some friendly advice...do whatever the F#@$ you wanna do! (Hodgetwins quote lol)
Good luck to all and Merry Christmas 2012!!!
Cheers
In late 2010 I got my legal license and started a DWC system (~40 buckets, too big for an individual bucket system IMO) after being out of the game for about five years; it looked like a great concept. First pull was pretty good (2#/1000W/8wks) but there was one plant in the system that was stunted and had yucky brown roots, all others were a typical tan color. The second run was a complete disaster (0.5#/1000W/8ks); brown slime on all the roots. Then again, and again...AAAARRGGHH. I read almost all the posts regarding DWC and brown slime (starting with this great thread back when there were only 75 pages or so). That shit f#$@ed me up so bad I wanted to put a BUD to my head and pull the trigger!! But, momma ain't raised no quitter...so...
I read some more of these type of threads and soon realized 90% of the people on these forums have little to no logic (maybe due to their meds??). So I went back to university and took a couple botany classes (already have a physics degree and electrical engineering degree, not that they helped me here)...and...wait for it...
I have tried:
-chillers,
-tea (Heisenberg's recipe),
-H202 (hydrogen peroxide),
-physan20,
-bleach (I stunk so much my kids all thought I was swimming),
-Ridomil Gold,
-Actinovate,
-PrevicurN,
-Aquashield,
-Subdue Maxx,
-ZHO powder,
-Erythromycin,
-Rhapsody,
-Truban,
-praying to god,
-posting on these forums,
-nute variations
etc etc... these are ALL RIGHT!! and kinda ALL WRONG!! lol...the secret???...
I eventually gave up on DWC, but not completely, I had to keep some buckets around until I solved the problem ('member what I said a bout mamma!!!)...here it is...
From DAY1 you really need to protect your roots with some form of beneficial fungi (funguy or funji, either is fine, lol) and grow the roots and the fungi TOGETHER (the absolute key is prevention). Hydro stores (the biggest rip off businesses besides government and cell phone companies) will sell some brands but never really ever tell you what's in it because then you can go buy it for 5-10 cents on the dollar! But the one that did work extremely well (for me, yours may be different) was AQUASHILED from Botanicare (this was part of Heisneburg's recipe which I of course tried with moderate success). On my last run with the DWC I used Aquashield from day one and never chilled the water (got up to 83F), never even changed the nutes (just kept adding and let the extra spill out of an overflow hole (drilled at the right height so as to prevent overfilling)). I added fresh nutes with Dosmatic dosers. I ended up taking out my 400HP diesel air pump (yes, i'm joking but it was huge) and went to a 'relatively' tiny one. Lo and behold, beautiful white roots all the way through and a great yield (2+#/1000W/8wks). And then I ripped the rest of the DWC system out and sent it to hell with a good kick in the ass.
Remember, IMO, all the discussion of brown slime in RWC are likely different types of water molds (Oomycetes), diatoms, fungi, and bacterias...or you may have a suite of them. These all come from water wells, your ass (nope, not kidding), your lunch (soon to be at your ass), the air, the dirt outside. One thing I learned in all those botany classes is that these little microbes ARE EVERYWHERE (from your gf's box to your mammas armpit...everywhere)!!! This is why different solutions are working for different people and some are not. However, a shield such as Aquashield can protect from many of these. Another to look at closely is Trichoderma Harzianum (sold as Rootshield (granules or wettable powder) but not at hydro stores, careful it has a shelf life)...(http://www.bioworksinc.com/products/shared/rootshield.pdf)
Now I use rockwool cubes (hugos and bigmammas) with a drain to waste system and the Rootshield mentioned above. WAY WAY easier because I can move buckets around, empty the room completely and quickly between crops, no F#$%ing leaks, etc. I do not use Aquashield because I have no idea what it is; screw you Botanicare. This is why they, and many other manufacturer's, always show a 'token' nutrient value (0.02-0.04-0.01 for Aquashield) on their products, because then they can sell it as a nutrient which requires a 'guaranteed minumum' nutrient level for the NPK, however if they sold it as a 'treatment' they would have to list the 'active ingredient' along with its concentration.
I think Heisenburg's tea works great but it's like a fragmentation grenade...a whole bunch of functional little death shards but no real precision. 'Kinda' like having a headache and taking aspirin, tylenol, ibuprofen, tums, peptobismol etc just to make sure you get that headache taken care of. So the tea is a great place to start and get some instant results. However I wanted a more sniper like approach, difficult without an exact identification of the pathogen one is dealing with however.
That's my take, but hey it's just some friendly advice...do whatever the F#@$ you wanna do! (Hodgetwins quote lol)
Good luck to all and Merry Christmas 2012!!!
Cheers
Bravo, bravo!!! A quality, informative post there by Maxipad.
I am certain you aren't stoned/dumb enough to think you add all that "JUNK" at once!? Well don't. But seriously, read the third to last line in my post...it's there just for someone like you.
A good grower is determined when things go wrong and how they respond.
I posted to help people understand, in a somewhat organized manner, just a little more of the challenges some of us face when growing in hydro or peat moss/vemiculite. Dirt is what you dig up in your yard or like the Irish grew their potatoes in back in the mid 1800's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)) and they would have done ANYTHING for just one of those "JUNK"s you referred to. Phytophtora (aka plant killer) was the demise of over a million people.
I am certain you aren't stoned/dumb enough to think you add all that "JUNK" at once!? Well don't. But seriously, read the third to last line in my post...it's there just for someone like you.
A good grower is determined when things go wrong and how they respond.
I posted to help people understand, in a somewhat organized manner, just a little more of the challenges some of us face when growing in hydro or peat moss/vemiculite. Dirt is what you dig up in your yard or like the Irish grew their potatoes in back in the mid 1800's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)) and they would have done ANYTHING for just one of those "JUNK"s you referred to. Phytophtora (aka plant killer) was the demise of over a million people.
Maximo
Member
i had to chime in here as well..Hydro is better.not just imo..but in the plants opinion also.Hydroponics comes from two Greek words (HYDRO means “water” and PONICS means “Labor”).
This concept is not given much appreciation for some reason, although when you take a second to think about it the water is working hard for you.
This is why all advanced civilizations have turned to produce all their fruits, vegetables and medicinal herbs through the use of hydroponics over time.
The Culture of gardening hydroponically has evolved over thousands of years. There have been many advanced civilizations that Discovered and built different hydroponic methods; such as the Egyptian, Babylon, Aztecs of Mexico, and the Chinese.
The Babylon hydroponic Culture was known for their hanging gardens also known and in use today as Vertical Hydroponics Systems.
The Aztecs were the first people in the world to develop the art and science of hydroponics. Driven away from their area to a place with no farm land this brilliant race devolved large water fields by growing hydroponic gardens on rafts made up of bushes and reeds called chinampas.
Many such chinampas were sometimes tied together to form floating islands of two hundred feet or longer. These systems have many names today including Raft systems, Deep Water Culture (D W C also commonly called), Dutch Bucket System, etc.
In my opinion the Chinese thought of the most effective growing method called Aquaponic. This is my most favorite basic gardening system because it is… The ideal way to feed a family of 5 while in a food crisis.
Many different civilizations have contributed to styles of growing because of the limitations of their environment and what they had to adopt their gardening culture to as their civilization had grown past their original means of producing food for their current population.
In the 1950‘s, after the war, commercial use hydroponics expanded throughout the world. Today more countries are growing with hydroponics as a way of producing quality food.
Hydroponics is viewed as environmentally sustainable for a variety reasons; considerably less water and land are needed to grow large amounts of high quality food.
Not entirely true!
Here in the colorado rockies, a cement floor stays super cold... all year round. Amazing what a little insulation and the proper airflow can accomplish.
Stay Safe!
gliese581g
New member
Does this sound like brown algae to you?
Background:
So I recently just switched from hand-watered coco to DWC. I'm using Coleman coolers with holes drilled out in the lids.
Temps are not really an issue. I had the smallest light leak around where my air hoses come in but that has since been plugged.
I'm using only FloraNova and Roots Excelurator with Toronto tap water (100ppm starting).
Some plants are more affected than others. I've never grown in DWC before (or any kind of hydro) so I'm not sure what to expect but my gut tells me something isn't right. The roots feel a bit mushy and not like bean sprouts (except the really white, fresh roots). The browner, more slimier roots (only faintly slimy) seem to pull away easy but the plants look healthy on top. I've started applying h202 (27%) at about 1.5ml per gallon every few days but it doesn't seem to make any difference. The res itself has a very, very faint pond smell. I'm not being overrun by "slime" (the situation is pretty stable) but at the same time I don't think things are right. This isn't a RDWC. Each cooler is independent and I clear the res with a submersible pump followed by a shop vaccing to get what is left. Changing res every 7 days.
Res temp fluctuates between 60-70f. Aeration exceeds 1 watt per gallon with airstones. PH is also stable. I started out in coco and transferred the coco root ball into hydrocorn (thoroughly washed first) so there are actual fleks of coco in there causing some discoloration but there is also a slimy/mushy feeling to the browner roots and they pull away very easy. I know Floranova is supposted to stain roots a tan colour.
I am thinking this could be brown algae (cyanobacteria). I bought some physan 20 off ebay just in case as this seems to be the only thing that consistently works for that and am going to get to work brewing a benny tea today to fight off any bad bacteria that might be in there.
See pics below. I've slowly been phasing in this DWC system over a few weeks as my hand-watered coco crops have finished up. All systems appear to be effected. Some plants all have much poorer root mass despite receiving identical treatment. I'm growing from seed so different genetics but same strain.
Pics below. Each pic is from a different cooler. The middle pic is from a batch that is a few weeks ahead of the 1st and 3rd pics.
Blargh. Any help appreciated. And I thought DWC was going to be easy as long as I kept my temps low. Guess I have some fine tuning to do.
I'd add that no air stones or airlines have a slimy feeling to them. The walls of the res also do not have a slime feeling. The closest thing to that is a bit of discolouration/slipperyness at the water line but I think that is just nute residue from the floranova as the water level has dropped.
Background:
So I recently just switched from hand-watered coco to DWC. I'm using Coleman coolers with holes drilled out in the lids.
Temps are not really an issue. I had the smallest light leak around where my air hoses come in but that has since been plugged.
I'm using only FloraNova and Roots Excelurator with Toronto tap water (100ppm starting).
Some plants are more affected than others. I've never grown in DWC before (or any kind of hydro) so I'm not sure what to expect but my gut tells me something isn't right. The roots feel a bit mushy and not like bean sprouts (except the really white, fresh roots). The browner, more slimier roots (only faintly slimy) seem to pull away easy but the plants look healthy on top. I've started applying h202 (27%) at about 1.5ml per gallon every few days but it doesn't seem to make any difference. The res itself has a very, very faint pond smell. I'm not being overrun by "slime" (the situation is pretty stable) but at the same time I don't think things are right. This isn't a RDWC. Each cooler is independent and I clear the res with a submersible pump followed by a shop vaccing to get what is left. Changing res every 7 days.
Res temp fluctuates between 60-70f. Aeration exceeds 1 watt per gallon with airstones. PH is also stable. I started out in coco and transferred the coco root ball into hydrocorn (thoroughly washed first) so there are actual fleks of coco in there causing some discoloration but there is also a slimy/mushy feeling to the browner roots and they pull away very easy. I know Floranova is supposted to stain roots a tan colour.
I am thinking this could be brown algae (cyanobacteria). I bought some physan 20 off ebay just in case as this seems to be the only thing that consistently works for that and am going to get to work brewing a benny tea today to fight off any bad bacteria that might be in there.
See pics below. I've slowly been phasing in this DWC system over a few weeks as my hand-watered coco crops have finished up. All systems appear to be effected. Some plants all have much poorer root mass despite receiving identical treatment. I'm growing from seed so different genetics but same strain.
Pics below. Each pic is from a different cooler. The middle pic is from a batch that is a few weeks ahead of the 1st and 3rd pics.
Blargh. Any help appreciated. And I thought DWC was going to be easy as long as I kept my temps low. Guess I have some fine tuning to do.
I'd add that no air stones or airlines have a slimy feeling to them. The walls of the res also do not have a slime feeling. The closest thing to that is a bit of discolouration/slipperyness at the water line but I think that is just nute residue from the floranova as the water level has dropped.
I have read the posts on this SLIM Shit. man I hate it. I got it. temp went up over 100degrees. & it just showed up. I have RO water, goes into a 55 gal res for storage. then I use as needed. I ordered some Physan 20, I an getting a UV Sterilizer, but what do you think I should get? something for the res or run the UV as it comes out of the RO before it goes to res? get something UV to run water thru as I use it?
have read the thread about this Slim twice, I'm 62 yrs & have a slight case of Dislecsea. so reading
have read the thread about this Slim twice, I'm 62 yrs & have a slight case of Dislecsea. so reading
that long thread just confusses me.So I read it again. Please if you can. tell me the way I should set it up. I use DWC stand alone 5gal buckets. I hand feed & mix as needed. I use the Xnutes nonorganic, I learned the hard way about organics in my system. I use nothing organic at this time. so I add cal/mag, SP/20, Xnutes, little h2o2, that's about it. I mix it all in a 25gal res, PH to 5.7.
so I would like to no the best way to run the UV & the physan 20. I water every time they need it. no more than every 5 to 7 days.
is this enough info for you to help me out.
thanx so much man you guys sure help us all a lot.
so I would like to no the best way to run the UV & the physan 20. I water every time they need it. no more than every 5 to 7 days.
is this enough info for you to help me out.
thanx so much man you guys sure help us all a lot.
GreensideSupply
New member
Don't over think it I have never ph my water or checked the ppms and I have big healthy plants... Less is more
I had it and treated it with ethryomyacin. After deciding to replace the whole system including buckets that were infected but not treated with ethryomyacin I figured id give fixing my system one last shot. I bleached the buckets and lids and threw everything else away. Air pump, lines, stones, hydroton, water fittings and hoses. I'm slime free now. I blame washing a very large hydroton bag at once and the middle staying wet too long but it coulda been the air or water hoses or air pump or stones.
I saved a lot of money not buying a few dozen 5gal buckets and matching net pot lids but it was a risk the buckets and lids could have infected all my new stuff
I saved a lot of money not buying a few dozen 5gal buckets and matching net pot lids but it was a risk the buckets and lids could have infected all my new stuff
