Strange Slime buildup on roots

[ItsGrowTime]

Need to ask why do i still have slime if the UV kills the bacteria and so does the h2o2 im adding daily?????

What is so good about physan that wwill stop it from coming back the next day even though have UV????

cheeerz

Are you even reading my replies to your posts? I addressed this already.

UV won't do anything for an already infected root system and H2O2 is a waste of time. Physan kills it. Simple as that. If you use the Physan for a day, dump the entire res contents, clean the root mass of dead algae and damaged roots, fill with fresh water and use beneficial bacteria and chemical nutes only, the slime will not come back in that res. If you use UV in the fresh water without beneficials the UV will kill the algae spores before they get a chance to reinfect the roots. If you introduce organic matter (fuel for slime) back into the fresh water then yes it can come right back if you don't inoculate your roots with bacteria or sterilize with UV. You MUST deal with this stuff methodically or you'll just end up frustrated.

 

[grapeman]

Dipping clones

Dipping clones

A question for you Physan 20 experts. I am in the process of flushing my DWC buckets with plants growing in 1.5 ml/10 gal of Physan 20. If I determine that I cannot save this grow I will be breaking down, cleaning and replanting. Unfortunately, I know I got this fucking rot from clones purchased in LA last grow. I cannot make enough of my own to re-plant timely, so I will have to buy some again (from another supplier for sure).

So the question. If I purchase some clones, is there a safe technique and rate of Physan 20 to dip them in Physan 20 to sterilize before introducing them to my system for the next grow? I am sure they will come in rockwool cubes. I don't want to kill them just make sure they are clean.

Sorry if this is a redundant question but after spending 35 minutes going through these posts, I didn't see anything specific to this question about dipping clones in rock wool in Physan before planting.

Thanks

 

[richyrich]

I have not done it. But, I would recommend fully dunking them in the dilution ration in my signature. Gently squeeze the rockwool and then do 2-3 full dunks in water only, again, gently squeezing rockwool each time. Plant and feed.

 

[ItsGrowTime]

I wouldnt assume the slime came from the clone. It might have but I get the slime over and over with different clones and Im sure my slime is in the tap water I use.

But if the roots had the slime when you got the clone then it's possible. Ive only used Physan on sorta established plants, not baby clones with little roots. Can't offer any direct experience sorry. I would instead install the clones in a water and beneficial bacteria bath first and let the roots start growing. Avoid any organic matter in your res, at least until plants are established and growing. This is where chemical nutes shine. I wait a week until I add anything organic to my res. The roots are growing, benes are thriving, DO is high and the slime just can't compete. At least that's my take on it.

The results speak for themselves if you follow a method. Just part of dialing in, IMO.

 

[richyrich]

I wouldnt assume the slime came from the clone. It might have but I get the slime over and over with different clones and Im sure my slime is in the tap water I use.

But if the roots had the slime when you got the clone then it's possible. Ive only used Physan on sorta established plants, not baby clones with little roots. Can't offer any direct experience sorry. I would instead install the clones in a water and beneficial bacteria bath first and let the roots start growing. Avoid any organic matter in your res, at least until plants are established and growing. This is where chemical nutes shine. I wait a week until I add anything organic to my res. The roots are growing, benes are thriving, DO is high and the slime just can't compete. At least that's my take on it.

The results speak for themselves if you follow a method. Just part of dialing in, IMO.

Solid advice.^^^

 

[grapeman]

EWC tea

EWC tea

So, from my reading here, it seems easy to make your own tea. EW casting, a 5 gal bucket and a tsp or so of molasses. Hang your EWC in a nylon bag in a bucket of RO water with a bubbling air-stone for 24 to 48 hours or until ph stable.

Is it that easy?

If I still clone in rockwool, is it beneficial to dip the cubes in the tea (or a diluted solution of h2o and tea) after planting the clones in the cube before I put them into the humid dome?

If I drain to waste weekly in my DWC, should I brew a new batch weekly and add to my mix reservoir before I ph to 5.8 and feed? If I use an A & B fert (house & garden), should I then add the tea after I ph the A & B mix but before additives?

How much should I add, on a per gallon basis to my fertilizer mix? I usually need to make 2 mixes of between 40 and 50 gal(80 to 100 gal total weekly) each each week during the grow

From reading here for months, I am assuming that I need to sterilize all with bleach and Physan then start fresh, making sure I use the tea as a preventative throughout the cloning process and grow. Correct?

 

[D.I.trY]

hi grapeman. 1st question yes. Second, never use h202 and tea. You want to brew the tea with as much life as possible so its counterproductive to kill it with h202. regarding ph, its really not that complicated. Just adjust ph to nute recommendations. You should find the beneficials enable the plant's uptake of nutrients and ph is less important to control. You cant really add too much tea - assuming its good tea! dont brew the tea with too much food or your aeration may be insufficient ( you know all this already). maybe replace mollasses with blended oatmeal.
I had only a little slime that returned after i took clones from infected plants. It wasnt that widespread but introduction of good micros was enough the outcompete and kill the slime within days (changed colour and texture and seperated off by itself). No need for pesticides imo

you probably wont need to replace because the slime wont come back, but maybe regular teas will give you a harvest of your dreams!

 

[grapeman]

TY DRTrY. I think you mis-read my 2nd question. It was about the rockwool dip with the clones. I asked if it was ok to dip the rockwool in h2o (water) and a bit of the tea? I understand from this thread that once you go tea, drop the h2o2.

So I assume this is ok to do. Hope you respond.

I too am hoping I don't need to replace my grow but this shit has been going on too long already. We'll see.

Thanks,

 

[grapeman]

I have the ewc tea brewing from a bag of ewc i bought at the garden center. I now notice on the internet site of the manufacturer (Gardner & Bloome) that it also contains some "kelp meal" .

Any problems there? I've been to the tea sites here and everyone has their own recipe while I'm just trying to copy what you boys have done for the slime.

Thanks for any response.

 

[D.I.trY]

hi grapeman. sorry yes i didn't answer that 2nd question very well - by all means add tea at the rockwool clone stage would be my answer... just no h202. Remember to take sensible precautions when dealing with tea. e.g. leave tap water out until all the chlorine has evaporated. I think this takes 24 hrs? I use only rain water and pond water (healthy aerated pond without bad smelling water), and occasionaly RO water, but i havent changed any of my filters in years! Avoid chlorine because its your enemy.

kelp meal is good - its a very good source of food for the fungi. The potential of the compost tea is only as good as the innoculant used to make it (the ewc). Therefore its important that the bag you bought has been looked after from the point of packaging to reaching you. As long as you have a good bag thats alive and you aerate it enough you will make good tea. The organic section of this forum has some great reading material. good luck! oh and a tea for treating the slime need be no different to the best tea you can brew!

 

[oddsman]

Just wanted to add a little feedback.

I had terrible brown slime in the beginning stages of hydro (I started several plants in a DWC 18 gallon rubbermaid and moved them to single 5-gal DWC bucket once they had decent growth), but it would disappear after about 4 weeks. It was obvious light had nothing to do with the slime (light probably slightly slowed the slime's growth) and something was happening in my 5-gal buckets that was correcting the problem for me. I assumed beneficials had established a stronghold after about 4 weeks (I don't add benes to my system), so I started taking some of the nutrient solution from the 5-gal buckets (maybe a gallon or two) and adding it to my 18 gal rubbermaid. Problem solved.

Now I'm having a similar problem with my aero cloner, but I don't want to add nutrients to the system that could possibly harm my cuttings. So it looks like I'm going to try to add beneficials via a tea with as little nutrients as possible. Wish me luck.

 

[oddsman]

EZ Cloner has competition now. Check it out.



TurboKlone is the answer to over-heating clone machines.

I like it. I always wondered why the EZ-Cloner had an air pump when the misters should dissolve plenty of air by themselves. Apparently fresh air is what it needs. The added benefit of cooler running temperatures and cleaner construction is wonderful. I noticed the TurboKlone uses a much smaller 450 GPH pump for the 96 unit cloner. Maybe they've learned a thing or two about overheating. I built my own EZ-Cloner, but I think the turbokone 96 might be worth the $350.

 

[richyrich]

Just wanted to add a little feedback.

I had terrible brown slime in the beginning stages of hydro (I started several plants in a DWC 18 gallon rubbermaid and moved them to single 5-gal DWC bucket once they had decent growth), but it would disappear after about 4 weeks. It was obvious light had nothing to do with the slime (light probably slightly slowed the slime's growth) and something was happening in my 5-gal buckets that was correcting the problem for me. I assumed beneficials had established a stronghold after about 4 weeks (I don't add benes to my system), so I started taking some of the nutrient solution from the 5-gal buckets (maybe a gallon or two) and adding it to my 18 gal rubbermaid. Problem solved.

Now I'm having a similar problem with my aero cloner, but I don't want to add nutrients to the system that could possibly harm my cuttings. So it looks like I'm going to try to add beneficials via a tea with as little nutrients as possible. Wish me luck.

Good Luck. Get the benes in there.

 

[richyrich]

Good read from Maximum Yield mag.


Hydroponic H2O: Water Quality and Treatment

by Dr. Lynette Morgan

2009-10-01

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Good quality water is vital for a healthy hydroponic system, but just because what comes out of the tap is clean, clear and good to drink, doesn’t mean your plants will love it as well. Water quality and treatment focuses on making water safe for us, even if that means using disinfectant chemicals to kill human pathogens.

Secondary focuses are in treating water so it won’t cause us other hassles such as pipe corrosion, scale formation on appliances, unwanted odors and staining minerals. However, with municipal water treatment no real concern is given to plants or hydroponic systems, so growers are on their own in determining if their water supply is a problem and what to do about it.

Municipal water supplies

Many indoor gardeners are reliant on municipal water supplies and have few other options for a better quality water source. It’s likely that some plant losses have and do occur as a result of some municipal water supplies, particularly in sensitive species and in water culture systems where there is no media to act as a buffer. On the other hand, many municipal water supplies are quite suitable and given that they have had organic matter and pathogens removed already, are a good deal as far as hydroponic systems go. Interestingly plants have rather different responses and requirements from a water supply than humans and this is where problems can occur. Municipal water treatment ensures that drinking water meets the World Health Organization (WHO) and EPA standards for mineral, chemical and biological contamination levels, making it generally very safe to drink and use. However, what is safe for us to drink may not be so good for plant growth, particularly when we consider many hydroponic systems are recirculating which allows build up of unwanted contaminants in the plant root zone.

Recirculating solution culture systems such as NFT have less buffering capacity to water treatment chemical residues than organic media-based systems.

Water treatment options used by municipal suppliers change over time and hydroponic growers should be aware of the implications of these. Many years ago the main concern was the use of chlorine as a disinfection agent to destroy bacteria and human pathogens. Chlorine had the advantage in that it disinfected water effectively; however, residual chlorine in water sources, which could often be detected by smell, could be toxic to sensitive plants and where it built up in certain hydroponics systems. Also when chlorine reacts with organic matter it forms substances (trihalomethanes) which are linked to increased risk of cancer and other health problems. Chlorine was, however, quite easy to remove from water with the use of aeration or even just aging the water a few days before irrigating plants. In the 1990’s it was found that some organisms such as Cryptosporidium were resistant to chlorine and the resulting health issues from this meant that drinking water regulations were changed and alternative disinfection methods began to be used. These included use of ozone and UV light, chloramines (chlorine plus ammonia) and chlorine dioxide.

Filtration, flocculation, settling, UV and ozone used for water supply treatment are non problematic as far as hydroponic systems go, as they leave no residue and are effective. However, use of chloramines and some of the other chemicals by municipal water treatment plants may still pose problems where high levels are regularly dosed into water supplies. Chloramines are much more persistent than chlorine and take a lot longer to dissipate from treated water, so gardeners who are concerned can use a couple of different treatment methods just as those with aquarium fish often choose to do. There are specifically designed activated carbon filters which can remove most of the chloramines in a domestic water supply and also ‘dechloraminating’ chemical or water conditioners available in pet shops. Carbon filters must be of the correct type that have a high quality granular activated carbon and allow a longer contact time which is required for chloramines removal. Even then not every trace may be removed, but levels are lowered enough to prevent problems. Use of ascorbic acid (vitamin C) is also used in the industry, and by laboratories to remove chloramines from water after they have done their disinfection job.

Chemicals are also added to drinking water to adjust its hardness or softness, pH and alkalinity. Water that is naturally acidic is corrosive to pipes and sodium hydroxide may be added to reduce this. Sodium is a contaminate we don’t need in hydroponic systems, but may be present at surprisingly high levels in certain water supplies. Domestic water softeners may also contaminate the water with sodium which is not seen as a problem for drinking, but can run amuck with a well balanced hydroponic system and sodium sensitive crop.
What water problems may look like

It’s extremely difficult to determine if something in the water supply is causing plant growth problems. Root rot pathogens may originate in water, but they can come from a number of sources, including fungal spores, blown in dust or brought in by insects. Mineral problems can be a little easier to trace if the water supply analysis is available to check levels of elements. Plant problems which may be caused by water treatment chemicals are difficult to diagnose as some plants are much more sensitive than others and the type of system also plays a role. Research studies have reported that chloramines in hydroponic nutrient solutions can cause growth inhibition and root browning in susceptible plants. One study reported that the critical chloramines amount at which lettuce plant growth was significantly inhibited was 0.18 mg Cl/g root fresh weight, however, the levels at which some other species would be damaged is as yet undetermined. Similar problems exist with the use of other water treatment chemicals; chlorine and hydrogen peroxide are good disinfection agents, but too much in the hydroponic nutrient will cause root damage and just what is a safe level is dependant on a number factors such as the level of organic loading in the system.
Hard water

Hard water is water that has a high mineral content, usually calcium and magnesium, with calcium present as calcium carbonate or calcium sulfate. Hard water can occur in wells and municipal sources and has a tendency to form hard lime scale on surfaces and equipment. A hard water supply is generally not a major problem for hydroponic gardens; calcium and magnesium are useful elements for plant uptake, however, high levels in the water can upset the balance of a nutrient solution making other ions less available. Commercial growers routinely use hard water supplies and adjust their nutrient formulation to take into account the Ca and Mg naturally occurring in the water and also adjust for any alkalinity problems with water acidification. Smaller growers can use one of the many excellent ‘hard water’ nutrient products on the market to get a similar effect.
Ground water – wells

Many commercial hydroponics growers use well water for hydroponic systems and adjust their nutrient formulations to suit the natural mineral content of their water supply. Smaller growers would be advised to find out what is in their well water source just to check for potential problems as water which has percolated through soils tends to pick up some minerals and in some areas, high levels of unwanted elements such as sodium or trace elements. Well water can also contain pathogens and may need treatment before use, although often it is just the mineral levels that need adjustment. Water from dams, lakes and springs is usually similar to well water, but can contain much higher levels of sediment, organic matter and fungal pathogen spores.
Rain water

Rain water collection can be a good way to bypass problems with municipal or well water in some areas; however, there are still some risks. Acid rain from industrial areas, sodium in coastal sites and high pathogen spore loads in agricultural areas can still occur. Generally rain water is low in minerals, but in the process of collection from roofs and other surfaces, can collect wind blown dust and fungal spores. While this is generally not a problem for healthy plants, rain water should be treated before use with young seedlings and clones where pathogens could infect sensitive tissue and open wounds.
Solutions to water quality problems

Organic material such as coconut fiber gives a greater buffering capacity for some water problems, including residues from chemical water treatments, than solution culture systems. Drain to waste media systems are also useful where the water supply contains unwanted elements such as sodium as these aren’t as susceptible to the accumulation that can occur where the solution is recirculated over a long period of time. Where problems with unwanted minerals and very hard water exist, frequent changing and replacement of the nutrient in the system can also be useful to keep things in balance. Water with a high alkalinity will need considerably more acid to keep the pH down to acceptable levels than water with low alkalinity; however, by acidifying the water first before making up a nutrient solution or adding to the reservoir, much less acid will need to be added to the system to adjust pH over time.

There are a range of other treatment options that indoor gardeners can use to improve the quality of their water supply. If pathogen contamination is an issue, slow sand filtration is one of the most effective methods, although perhaps not that practical for those with limited space. Chemical disinfection methods for pathogen control include hydrogen peroxide, chlorine and other compounds, although care should be taken that most of the active chemical has dissipated before the water is used to make up the nutrient solution. Heat, distillation, reverse osmosis and UV treatment can all be used for pathogen control, with many small RO and UV treatment systems now on the market. UV filters for aquariums can be used for small hydroponic growers to treat water with good success, provided sufficient contact time is allowed. If excess minerals or unwanted elements such as sodium are present in a water supply, reverse osmosis (RO) or distillation can be used to remove these. Organic matter in ground water sources can be removed with settling and filtration and treatment with H2O2, while chemical contamination problems and removal of water treatment compounds are more easily treated with the correct type of activated carbon filter with a sufficient contact time.
Super-charged water for hydroponics

While it seems logical that pure, clean and demineralized water is the best place to start when making up a hydroponic nutrition solution, the possibility of creating a water source that has certain benefits for plants is a relatively new concept. Water is not just a carrier for essential nutrient ions, the nutrient solution becomes a whole biological system in its own right with organic matter, root exudates, various species of microbes including fungi, bacteria and their by-products (both good and bad), beneficial and unwanted mineral elements and a range of ‘additives’ growers may be using. Some studies have found that inexplicable growth increases could be obtained using certain ground water sources compared to rain or RO (essentially pure) water to make up a hydroponic nutrient solution indicating there may be natural factors in such waters which have benefits. Not all ground water sources have this effect; in fact, some can have negative influences on plant growth. Furthermore, another essential plant nutrient – oxygen in dissolved form - is usually present in water supplies; however, some water treatment processes can drive much of the dissolved oxygen (DO) out of a water source. In theory it would be possible to not only remove those things in the water we don’t want – pathogen spores, unwanted minerals, chemical residues from water treatment - but to also ‘boost’ the water with useful properties such as a high DO content, a population of useful and disease suppressant microbes and some natural and potentially beneficial minerals and compounds. One way of achieving this would be with the use of slow sand filters or mineral filters for water supplies which are inoculated with beneficial microbes and with oxygenation of the water for a few days before making up nutrient solutions or topping up reservoirs. Further down the track we may see quicker and easier methods of ‘supercharging’ water for hydroponic systems, taking water quality to a whole new level of science.

 

[StinkyFgrs]

Great info everyone,I appreciate all the input! I,ve been slimmed twice in my new EZ-60 and wuz dern near ready to use it for driving over with my TRUCK.!

Excited after reading this thred I rushed off and purchased a big bag of WC.The bag is 100% African night crawler pure black castings,and it says it is sterilized.Will sterilized castings brew benes??

I grow trees in 5gal top feed buckets,and I havn,t been slimed yet,but have come very close on a couple of occasions,so the tea has me very excited not only for its benefits,but for the approx.6-700 dollars it will knock off my recipe(yep,I fell into the marketing hype)

Do you all recommend running benes throughout the entire flower cycle?

Thanks.

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

good post snodog27

the pics in this thread are exactly what my roots looked like when i used
AN's tarantula and piranah...and i had several bad grows that i attribute
directly to those products..
on my last grow with T&P ..i was still early in flower when the slime started up....believe it or not...i took my plants out of the unit and "washed the roots" in the tub under cool running water for about 10 minutes and quit using the T&P....the plants turned right around and i havnt seen a problem since.

a side note here....after i decided the T&P werent good for a hydro grow
I gave them to a friend who grows in soil....he had the worst grow ever..
idk if i got a bad batch or what...but i'll never use those products again

just my 2¢

mj

bogus info....

T&P wont do that. this banned user is just ignorant.

looks grose though.

 

[psycho pirate]

if you want to keep your res clean and not kill benes then use Hygrozyme or AN's equivalent Sensizym

 

[richyrich]

if you want to keep your res clean and not kill benes then use Hygrozyme or AN's equivalent Sensizym

Terrible advice if you have the slime. Please, do some more reading in here.

 

[robertmarley]

After following this thread, all this bullshit (no offense I battled it FOREVER trying EVERYTHING) its just not worth it.

Switch to coco and get that bumper huge crop you've been waiting for.. I battled this crap for years and finally switched to coco and now i have no worries perfect HUGE, GREEN, plants no bullshit.

this may be off topic but alot of people that have endless trouble should consider biting the bullet like I did and do not regret it at all. I did water chillers, teas, beneficials, sterile with zone, everything.. not worth the risk of losing everything to one variable

Say DWC growth at full potential is 100%, I put coco at a 90%, and soil at a 50% for growth.. weigh that out to the odds of problems, fuck the buckets.

Goodluck everyone!

 

[ItsGrowTime]

^^^
Someone sure gives up easily. It is beatable and my work has proved it. My fence post top-feed system won't take coco, nor will my DWCs. Advising people to lower their expectations and results simply because you can't deal with an issue is faulty logic and its only a testament to your own failure.

Sorry, don't mean to sound harsh but that's what your post sounds like.