An endospore is a dormant, tough, and non-reproductive structure produced by a small number of bacteria from the Firmicute phylum. The primary function of most endospores is to ensure the survival of a bacterium through periods of environmental stress. They are therefore resistant to ultraviolet and gamma radiation, desiccation, lysozyme, temperature, starvation, and chemical disinfectants. Endospores are commonly found in soil and water, where they may survive for long periods of time. Some bacteria produce exospores or cysts instead.
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Strange Slime buildup on roots
- Thread starter guice
- Start date
onelov said:
That is why I have said once you get it you will always have it. At least, in the same room or place. Once infected you cannot get rid of the spores. I tried and I tried and if you read back you will see me saying this. Feed to waste is the only way after that if you want no hassles. Otherwise, you will always be just containing it with other measures such as Zone. All of my trial and error concluded that Zone was the best containment product but I still had hassles.
i been reading a lot about this "bacteria israelensis" "Neudomück" that madx posted about but most is in greman and dont under stand. from what i gather he is right the stuff works ( theres a lot of UK web site's ) Neudomück is for pest control "For combatting mosquito larvae biologically. Acts as an excellent preventative against black fungus gnats when continually applied. Just add a couple of drops to the nutrient solution." i cant find where it is avalabe in the USA or a dif brand of it im looking for an ingredients list to see what it contans but cant find that either i belive it's "bti" witch is whats used to kill most mosquito's biologicly
Hydrosonics??? might kill algea??? "bacteria israelensis"
Hydrosonics??? might kill algea??? "bacteria israelensis"
Would hydrosonic kill this bacteria and not damage roots and plant structure-
??? its been found to kill harmful bacteria in tooth brush cleaning - if you were to isolate the wave length to "zoom"in on the "bacteria israelensis" there might
be a possibility .....
Hydrosonics??? might kill algea??? "bacteria israelensis"
Would hydrosonic kill this bacteria and not damage roots and plant structure-
??? its been found to kill harmful bacteria in tooth brush cleaning - if you were to isolate the wave length to "zoom"in on the "bacteria israelensis" there might
be a possibility .....
HeresTheDank
Active member
Is this root rot? i know its a shitty cell phone pic but its all i got. you can see two areas of brown in the roots. my airstone came unglued so the bubbles werent being centered or soemthing. anything i can do to fix it? im in first week of flowering
Hu$tle Tree$
Member
Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis or BTI is the active ingredient in Neudomück, Gnatrol or Mosquito Dunks here in the USA....I have no clue how it would effect brown algae but it is definitely worth a shot...
I have a bottle of Gnatrol, but I am all done experimenting. I will leave up to the rest of you to take this further. One thing I know is Gnatrol could get costly to keep on using as a preventative. It could get rid of it but so does H202 and other things. But those spores you know. Evolved over millions to billions of years to stand up to anything as previously posted. Somebody find me a way to kill spores short of a nuclear bomb. I doubt that may even work. Can't a cockroach survive the bomb?
You wouldn't believe how fast this crap grows. It just explodes. Here is a new little problem I have been having.
My plants get fed by feed to waste. I mix all new nutes in RO water in a light proof Brute trash can. I am only using Advanced Sensi A+B and SensiCal. They are all non organic. Nothing gets reused here. It gets mixed and only goes out of the trash can.
I mix up enough for the week and let it sit. I feed each plant as it needs it. Some dry out at different times. Kind of a pain in the butt to have to check all the time and that is why I keep mixed nutes ready in the trash can. Now get this sh*t. When these nutes are mixed the water stays very clear. In less than 24 hours my nutes in the can are brown colored and there is a slight foul odor. Can you believe this shit. What the f*ck am I suppose to do, go back to a chiller. I might as well go back to hydro instead of this soiless. F*cking spores just get every where. I guess I will just have to mix nutes new every single feed. That is gonna be like every day as each plant has its needs. What a pain in the *ss. This sh*t is unbelievable. It really makes you want to just give up the whole thing. With the amount of work I am going to have to do now I might as well go back to hydro and use containment procedures. F*cking bullsh*t.
I was having a few deficiency problems and I checked everything out. My runoff ppms and ph are spot on. The tinged mixed nutes are doing something to my plants and causing slight problems. I'm all out of ideas. Sh*t, sh*t, sh*t.............................this stuff is a f*cking curse.
Oh yeah, even my RO water that collects in a black 55 gallon drum is slimy feeling on the drum walls. F*cking unbelievable. I am a hair from giving all this sh*t up. It is straight up bullsh*t.
Rant over.
My plants get fed by feed to waste. I mix all new nutes in RO water in a light proof Brute trash can. I am only using Advanced Sensi A+B and SensiCal. They are all non organic. Nothing gets reused here. It gets mixed and only goes out of the trash can.
I mix up enough for the week and let it sit. I feed each plant as it needs it. Some dry out at different times. Kind of a pain in the butt to have to check all the time and that is why I keep mixed nutes ready in the trash can. Now get this sh*t. When these nutes are mixed the water stays very clear. In less than 24 hours my nutes in the can are brown colored and there is a slight foul odor. Can you believe this shit. What the f*ck am I suppose to do, go back to a chiller. I might as well go back to hydro instead of this soiless. F*cking spores just get every where. I guess I will just have to mix nutes new every single feed. That is gonna be like every day as each plant has its needs. What a pain in the *ss. This sh*t is unbelievable. It really makes you want to just give up the whole thing. With the amount of work I am going to have to do now I might as well go back to hydro and use containment procedures. F*cking bullsh*t.
I was having a few deficiency problems and I checked everything out. My runoff ppms and ph are spot on. The tinged mixed nutes are doing something to my plants and causing slight problems. I'm all out of ideas. Sh*t, sh*t, sh*t.............................this stuff is a f*cking curse.
Oh yeah, even my RO water that collects in a black 55 gallon drum is slimy feeling on the drum walls. F*cking unbelievable. I am a hair from giving all this sh*t up. It is straight up bullsh*t.
Rant over.
Red Slime Algae and Cyanobacteria in General
bar
As you can see the classification is quite complex and numerous orders (families) exist and within each of them I have only listed a few representative ones.
Note that not all of the ones mentioned occur in saltwater and that some are free floating and non benthic. The free floating ones are removed by skimming mostly. The benthic ones are the ones that attach to rock, glass, acrylic, sand and anything else in the aquarium, including other types of algae.
The simplest forms of cyanobacteria are the unicellular ones (Chroococcales). They reproduce by binary fission (splitting in two, then again in two, and this process is repeated over and over. Some split and do not remain together and become free floating. Others, as in Microcystis agglomerate and make up a large colony held together by a slimy mass (Fay calls it a matrix). What you see, in essence, is not an alga but literally thousands upon thousands of them, all bound by the slime - the latter being what you see, not the individual algae. Remember they are so small that even normal strong microscopes cannot detect them.
Many blue-greens are characterized a filamentous appearance. This results from binary splitting where the split cells string themselves together, one attaching itself to the other and so on, until what appears like a filament is present (e.g. the types that may grow on your glass and seem not to go away even when phosphate levels are real low. The reason for this will become clear later. Indeed their main food source is not PO4 but nitrogen, which they uptake directly from the water.
Filaments can be straight as in Oscillatoria, or appear like a coil as in Spirulina. Of course variations occur that result from the shape of the actual cell (round, plate-lie, cylindrical, ovoid, rod-like, etc.). All these affect what you see. Again a slimy mass may hold the cells together, giving the algae the appearance of strings of slime rather than patches of slime. The strings can be straight or curled or even branched. Often the visible eye cannot detect the exact shape of the filaments even though they are made up of thousands and thousands of individual cells. There are so many cells though, that we see a filament or a patch or something similar.
The shape of what you see can also be affected by whether or not the cells are all identical in shape or not. Indeed some of these algae cells' shape will change depending on what type of nutrients are available at the time the splitting occurs (Cole and Sheath). Nitrogen availability levels and types appear to be the determining factor in the shape and size the cell takes on when division occurs (Carr and Whitton). By type of nitrogen source is meant: nitrogen, nitrogenous compounds, nitrogen nitrate, and so on. Fay also points out that genetics appears to determine the positioning of the cells but not necessarily their size. The postulate is that the food source at the time of splitting has lot to do with size.
The peripheral (outer) region of the cell contain the photosynthetic algal mechanism and the ensuing pigments.
Depending on what pigments are present in that region and in what Carr calls supramolecular complexes, various color forms appear. It should be obvious that the type of lighting used may influence the growth of these algae. Indeed pigments absorb certain wavelengths of light. The one that we are probably most concerned with, the red slime algae, have a great deal (relatively speaking) of phycoerythrins. The latter's absorption level is optimized at 555-564 nm (manometer) wavelength.
Aquariums where a high amount of this light wavelength is present are, therefore, much more likely to see the appearance of red slimy algae, given that nutrients will be present (any nitrogen based food source - or in other words breakdown from protein or stated differently yet, dissolved organic matter or dissolved organic carbon).
Red phycoerythrin is not the only pigment that is present in these algae of course and is what differentiates (amongst other characteristics) the blue greens. Blue phycocyanin and allophycocyanin are present in some as well. These have different wavelength uptake patterns and result in some blue greens taking on other colors. In addition, some blue greens have a mix of these pigments and the eventual color they take on depends on the spectrum of the light over them aquarium, as this will favor one pigment over another, meaning one color versus another one.
For the sake of completeness let me point out that the pigments just mentioned are Phycobiliproteins. This is in contrast to other pigments such as Chlorophyll and Carotenoids. All pigments in blue greens are incorporated in the lipid outer layer, referred to earlier (lipid=fat and fat-like esters). After being harvested by phycobiliproteins in the PS II (photosythesis II) cycle, light wavelength energy now trapped is transmitted to the PS I system and its Chlorophyll (mostly of type a). This appears to be a very efficient process (Zhevner and Shestakov). Clearly light is a major player in the type of blue-green algae that will appear.
Whe we talk about light in the context of photosynthesis we always need to take into account that wath we are really talking about is two distinct aspects of light: its intensity and its spectrum. Intensity can be viewed as its amount, spectrum can be seen as its quality. Both play a role in how much and what type of blue-green algae (and for that manner any photosynthesizing algae) will appear.
It is also known that other nutrients play a role in the growth of blue-greens: iron, phosphorurs, magnesium and so on. We will see more about this later in this article. Although the main nutrient appears to be nitrogen in many forms, this is not the only nutrient source these algae rely on and which makes them appear in an aquarium or aquatic environment.
bar
As you can see the classification is quite complex and numerous orders (families) exist and within each of them I have only listed a few representative ones.
Note that not all of the ones mentioned occur in saltwater and that some are free floating and non benthic. The free floating ones are removed by skimming mostly. The benthic ones are the ones that attach to rock, glass, acrylic, sand and anything else in the aquarium, including other types of algae.
The simplest forms of cyanobacteria are the unicellular ones (Chroococcales). They reproduce by binary fission (splitting in two, then again in two, and this process is repeated over and over. Some split and do not remain together and become free floating. Others, as in Microcystis agglomerate and make up a large colony held together by a slimy mass (Fay calls it a matrix). What you see, in essence, is not an alga but literally thousands upon thousands of them, all bound by the slime - the latter being what you see, not the individual algae. Remember they are so small that even normal strong microscopes cannot detect them.
Many blue-greens are characterized a filamentous appearance. This results from binary splitting where the split cells string themselves together, one attaching itself to the other and so on, until what appears like a filament is present (e.g. the types that may grow on your glass and seem not to go away even when phosphate levels are real low. The reason for this will become clear later. Indeed their main food source is not PO4 but nitrogen, which they uptake directly from the water.
Filaments can be straight as in Oscillatoria, or appear like a coil as in Spirulina. Of course variations occur that result from the shape of the actual cell (round, plate-lie, cylindrical, ovoid, rod-like, etc.). All these affect what you see. Again a slimy mass may hold the cells together, giving the algae the appearance of strings of slime rather than patches of slime. The strings can be straight or curled or even branched. Often the visible eye cannot detect the exact shape of the filaments even though they are made up of thousands and thousands of individual cells. There are so many cells though, that we see a filament or a patch or something similar.
The shape of what you see can also be affected by whether or not the cells are all identical in shape or not. Indeed some of these algae cells' shape will change depending on what type of nutrients are available at the time the splitting occurs (Cole and Sheath). Nitrogen availability levels and types appear to be the determining factor in the shape and size the cell takes on when division occurs (Carr and Whitton). By type of nitrogen source is meant: nitrogen, nitrogenous compounds, nitrogen nitrate, and so on. Fay also points out that genetics appears to determine the positioning of the cells but not necessarily their size. The postulate is that the food source at the time of splitting has lot to do with size.
The peripheral (outer) region of the cell contain the photosynthetic algal mechanism and the ensuing pigments.
Depending on what pigments are present in that region and in what Carr calls supramolecular complexes, various color forms appear. It should be obvious that the type of lighting used may influence the growth of these algae. Indeed pigments absorb certain wavelengths of light. The one that we are probably most concerned with, the red slime algae, have a great deal (relatively speaking) of phycoerythrins. The latter's absorption level is optimized at 555-564 nm (manometer) wavelength.
Aquariums where a high amount of this light wavelength is present are, therefore, much more likely to see the appearance of red slimy algae, given that nutrients will be present (any nitrogen based food source - or in other words breakdown from protein or stated differently yet, dissolved organic matter or dissolved organic carbon).
Red phycoerythrin is not the only pigment that is present in these algae of course and is what differentiates (amongst other characteristics) the blue greens. Blue phycocyanin and allophycocyanin are present in some as well. These have different wavelength uptake patterns and result in some blue greens taking on other colors. In addition, some blue greens have a mix of these pigments and the eventual color they take on depends on the spectrum of the light over them aquarium, as this will favor one pigment over another, meaning one color versus another one.
For the sake of completeness let me point out that the pigments just mentioned are Phycobiliproteins. This is in contrast to other pigments such as Chlorophyll and Carotenoids. All pigments in blue greens are incorporated in the lipid outer layer, referred to earlier (lipid=fat and fat-like esters). After being harvested by phycobiliproteins in the PS II (photosythesis II) cycle, light wavelength energy now trapped is transmitted to the PS I system and its Chlorophyll (mostly of type a). This appears to be a very efficient process (Zhevner and Shestakov). Clearly light is a major player in the type of blue-green algae that will appear.
Whe we talk about light in the context of photosynthesis we always need to take into account that wath we are really talking about is two distinct aspects of light: its intensity and its spectrum. Intensity can be viewed as its amount, spectrum can be seen as its quality. Both play a role in how much and what type of blue-green algae (and for that manner any photosynthesizing algae) will appear.
It is also known that other nutrients play a role in the growth of blue-greens: iron, phosphorurs, magnesium and so on. We will see more about this later in this article. Although the main nutrient appears to be nitrogen in many forms, this is not the only nutrient source these algae rely on and which makes them appear in an aquarium or aquatic environment.
Cyanobacteria and Blue-Green Algae Part 2
In Part 1 we touched on the reproduction of Cyanobacteria (the table listed various methods of reproduction): binary fission, budding, fragmentation. These forms of reproduction explain to a great extent the various appearances that Cyanobacteria take on in the aquarium: patches, slimy masses, strings, filaments, branched filaments and so on. We have seen that photosynthesis plays a large and important role in the reproduction and growth of such algae. The wavelength of the lighting that you provide determines what form of Cyanobacteria will grow in the tank. Keep the wavelengths that particularly promote blue-green algae growth low and you will have far less problems.
We have also noted that other nutrients play a role in growth and reproduction (dissolved organic carbon or material being an important one). Phosphate and iron are other ones.
Because of the usually high amount of pigments present in Cyanobacteria (as mentioned in Part 1), and because these pigments assist in the photosynthesis process (both PS I and PS II or Photsystem I and II), light does plays a great role in their growth and bears looking at some more. Indeed, slime algae of various colors can appear when the light source has degraded and when the wavelengths mentioned in Part 1 are suddenly becoming stronger (more intense or appear as a greater proportion of the total amount of lighting provided that penetrates the water.
This is often overlooked. Hobbyists are more likely to look for other reasons to explain the blue-green growths, and forget that old bulbs, fluorescents tubes, and other forms of lighting may need to be replaced to eliminate the spectra that are undesirable in terms of their effect on Cyanobacterial growth in general.
Photosynthesis can best and in its easiest form be described as the synthesis of organic compounds through the uptake of carbon dioxide and its fixation, light being used as the energy source. The total process involves several complex enzymatic and energy requiring reactions, all of which follow each other in a very particular order. I will not go into the details and mention the various enzymes involved such as carbonic anhydrase, dark reactions and other terminology that is not necessary to understand what is actually going on. For more information on those processes you can refer to specialized books or articles in the Review of Microbiology.
What is important to note is two-fold at least:
carbon dioxide is required, and it can come from two sources
decay of organic material
bicarbonates in the water
energy from light is required. This light has to be of the right spectrum (Kelvin degrees), as outlined in Part 1 of this article on blue-green algae.
The carbon dioxide can come from the breakdown of organic material but can also come from bicarbonate ions. Note, therefore, that a high dissolved organic load, combined with a high dKH, is practically certain to lead to the appearance of blue-greens.
Note also that higher or greater amounts of photosynthesis, with at the same time the presence of a great deal of organic material in the water, will produce more CO2 on one hand and increase growth on the other. Higher amounts of light combined with more CO2 provide more energy and since the carbon dioxide is present, blue-greens will start to grow.
The ideal combination for blue-greens to grow is: high DOC (dissolved organic carbon = dissolved organic protein = dissolved organic matter and the decay of that organic matter), high dKH levels and over saturation of CO2. The latter can occur if and when the carbon dioxide is not degassed properly from the water through the overflow leading to the sump, or when the water enters the sump by falling down in it in small streams.
If no sump is present at all the likelihood of carbon dioxide being high increases. Add to that lighting ot the type of wavelengths indicated in Part 1 and you are just about sure to get blue-green algae to grow in your aquarium. Add a high dKH and you really have an ideal environment for Blue-Greens to appear and proliferate and be hard to eradicate.
In Part 1 we touched on the reproduction of Cyanobacteria (the table listed various methods of reproduction): binary fission, budding, fragmentation. These forms of reproduction explain to a great extent the various appearances that Cyanobacteria take on in the aquarium: patches, slimy masses, strings, filaments, branched filaments and so on. We have seen that photosynthesis plays a large and important role in the reproduction and growth of such algae. The wavelength of the lighting that you provide determines what form of Cyanobacteria will grow in the tank. Keep the wavelengths that particularly promote blue-green algae growth low and you will have far less problems.
We have also noted that other nutrients play a role in growth and reproduction (dissolved organic carbon or material being an important one). Phosphate and iron are other ones.
Because of the usually high amount of pigments present in Cyanobacteria (as mentioned in Part 1), and because these pigments assist in the photosynthesis process (both PS I and PS II or Photsystem I and II), light does plays a great role in their growth and bears looking at some more. Indeed, slime algae of various colors can appear when the light source has degraded and when the wavelengths mentioned in Part 1 are suddenly becoming stronger (more intense or appear as a greater proportion of the total amount of lighting provided that penetrates the water.
This is often overlooked. Hobbyists are more likely to look for other reasons to explain the blue-green growths, and forget that old bulbs, fluorescents tubes, and other forms of lighting may need to be replaced to eliminate the spectra that are undesirable in terms of their effect on Cyanobacterial growth in general.
Photosynthesis can best and in its easiest form be described as the synthesis of organic compounds through the uptake of carbon dioxide and its fixation, light being used as the energy source. The total process involves several complex enzymatic and energy requiring reactions, all of which follow each other in a very particular order. I will not go into the details and mention the various enzymes involved such as carbonic anhydrase, dark reactions and other terminology that is not necessary to understand what is actually going on. For more information on those processes you can refer to specialized books or articles in the Review of Microbiology.
What is important to note is two-fold at least:
carbon dioxide is required, and it can come from two sources
decay of organic material
bicarbonates in the water
energy from light is required. This light has to be of the right spectrum (Kelvin degrees), as outlined in Part 1 of this article on blue-green algae.
The carbon dioxide can come from the breakdown of organic material but can also come from bicarbonate ions. Note, therefore, that a high dissolved organic load, combined with a high dKH, is practically certain to lead to the appearance of blue-greens.
Note also that higher or greater amounts of photosynthesis, with at the same time the presence of a great deal of organic material in the water, will produce more CO2 on one hand and increase growth on the other. Higher amounts of light combined with more CO2 provide more energy and since the carbon dioxide is present, blue-greens will start to grow.
The ideal combination for blue-greens to grow is: high DOC (dissolved organic carbon = dissolved organic protein = dissolved organic matter and the decay of that organic matter), high dKH levels and over saturation of CO2. The latter can occur if and when the carbon dioxide is not degassed properly from the water through the overflow leading to the sump, or when the water enters the sump by falling down in it in small streams.
If no sump is present at all the likelihood of carbon dioxide being high increases. Add to that lighting ot the type of wavelengths indicated in Part 1 and you are just about sure to get blue-green algae to grow in your aquarium. Add a high dKH and you really have an ideal environment for Blue-Greens to appear and proliferate and be hard to eradicate.
As you can see it does not take much really for Cyanobacteria to grow in our tanks!
I should perhaps add an explanation on why bicarbonates can contribute to the amount of blue-greens. Bicarbonates (such as baking soda - another reason not to use it often or on a large scale to maintain pH levels which it does not really do anyway since its natural pH is between 7.6 and 7.8) is converted to carbon dioxide by means of an enzymatic process:
HCO3- +H+ turns into CO2 + H2O.
CO2 does not require light necessarily. That is why such carbon dioxide fixation is referred to as the "dark reaction" of photosynthesis. Carbon dioxide can be uptaken even when no light is present. When other conditons are not favorable to the growth of Blue-Greens, they will not appear in your tank. If they are though, they will. Other conditions, and in my experience, the one that contributes most to the growth of blue-greens is the presence of high amounts of dissolved organic material which really creates an ample supply of carbon dioxide and the presence of phosphates.
Since photosynthesis is at work, photolysis occurs (also called the Hill Reaction) and oxygen is produced as a by-product. This is normally only associated with macro green algae but it should be clear from what has been written here that this oxygen production and release occurs with blue green algae as well. The actual reaction breaks water up into 2 Hydrogen ions, half an oxyen one and 2 units of energy. This explains why blue-greens soon are covered with tiny bubbles. The bubbles are free oxygen.
While this free oxygen greatly contributes to dissolved oxygen levels in the tank, the fact that it is generated by algae we do not really want in our aquarium, makes it a process we do not wish to rely on.
In nature though, blue-green algae are a very important source of oxygenation and play a very positive role in maintaining water quality at high purity since free oxygen has a real high ORP and cleans the water a great deal. In aquariums though we wish to achieve oxygen saturation in other ways, not through blue-green algae.
It was stated that the kind of lighting that is provided affects the growth cycle and determines the type of Cyanobacteria that actually make their appearance is a major factor to consider. What differentiates Cyanobacteria from other algae that photosynthesize, and especially from Chlorophyta (the higher green algae) is the wavelengths at which photosynthesis can take place.
I indicated that chlorophyll plays a role and that the ideal wavelength for this process is the 665-680 nanometers wavelength. Specific to Cyanobacteria and what makes them different and may lead to their appearance is when the light emitted by whatever bulb you use, start to shift and emits wavelengths in the 620 and 560 nanometer range where the phycobiliproteins referred to in Part 1 are just as efficient at photosynthesing than chlorophyll is.
This is a major difference specific to Blue-Greens, and is pointed out by several Authors consulted while writing this article.
At those wavelengths phycocyanin and phycoerythrin photosynthesize and lead to the appearance of Cyanobacteria. A slight shift in the amount of light emitted in this waveband can therefore lead to an outbreak of Blue-Greens. Unsuspecting Hobbyists may try to find all kinds of reasons for this growth when all that is really happening is that their bulbs need changing as they are emitting light that is promoting the growth of Blue-Greens.
Mind you, chlorophyll is still involved in the process but what is happening is that the pigments that can uptake the shorter wavelengths transfer it to the ones that need higher ones and so on. A typical sequence of the full photosynthesis cycle of Cyanobacteria would then be:
» energy uptake and transfer from phycoerythrin to phycocyanin, to allophycocyanin, to chlorophyll a. The rest is quite clear. As photosynthesis proceeds and all the processes start to take place, Blue-Green algae suddenly appear in the aquarium.
Note that the picture is more complex still in certain cases and that other pigments and other nutrients are involved as well in the growth. Perhaps this explains why when these algae appear it is so difficult to deal with them and also explains why they appear when we as Hobbyists believe our water quality parameters are such that none should grow.
Remember though: the main culprits are dissolved organic material and carbon dioxide and light of the wavelengths indicated above.
More will be reviewed in Part 3 of this article. As you can well imagine this article requires a great deal of reading and then distilling the information in article form. At the end of the series I will list references and suggested reading materials that you may wish to consult if you want to research this further.
I should perhaps add an explanation on why bicarbonates can contribute to the amount of blue-greens. Bicarbonates (such as baking soda - another reason not to use it often or on a large scale to maintain pH levels which it does not really do anyway since its natural pH is between 7.6 and 7.8) is converted to carbon dioxide by means of an enzymatic process:
HCO3- +H+ turns into CO2 + H2O.
CO2 does not require light necessarily. That is why such carbon dioxide fixation is referred to as the "dark reaction" of photosynthesis. Carbon dioxide can be uptaken even when no light is present. When other conditons are not favorable to the growth of Blue-Greens, they will not appear in your tank. If they are though, they will. Other conditions, and in my experience, the one that contributes most to the growth of blue-greens is the presence of high amounts of dissolved organic material which really creates an ample supply of carbon dioxide and the presence of phosphates.
Since photosynthesis is at work, photolysis occurs (also called the Hill Reaction) and oxygen is produced as a by-product. This is normally only associated with macro green algae but it should be clear from what has been written here that this oxygen production and release occurs with blue green algae as well. The actual reaction breaks water up into 2 Hydrogen ions, half an oxyen one and 2 units of energy. This explains why blue-greens soon are covered with tiny bubbles. The bubbles are free oxygen.
While this free oxygen greatly contributes to dissolved oxygen levels in the tank, the fact that it is generated by algae we do not really want in our aquarium, makes it a process we do not wish to rely on.
In nature though, blue-green algae are a very important source of oxygenation and play a very positive role in maintaining water quality at high purity since free oxygen has a real high ORP and cleans the water a great deal. In aquariums though we wish to achieve oxygen saturation in other ways, not through blue-green algae.
It was stated that the kind of lighting that is provided affects the growth cycle and determines the type of Cyanobacteria that actually make their appearance is a major factor to consider. What differentiates Cyanobacteria from other algae that photosynthesize, and especially from Chlorophyta (the higher green algae) is the wavelengths at which photosynthesis can take place.
I indicated that chlorophyll plays a role and that the ideal wavelength for this process is the 665-680 nanometers wavelength. Specific to Cyanobacteria and what makes them different and may lead to their appearance is when the light emitted by whatever bulb you use, start to shift and emits wavelengths in the 620 and 560 nanometer range where the phycobiliproteins referred to in Part 1 are just as efficient at photosynthesing than chlorophyll is.
This is a major difference specific to Blue-Greens, and is pointed out by several Authors consulted while writing this article.
At those wavelengths phycocyanin and phycoerythrin photosynthesize and lead to the appearance of Cyanobacteria. A slight shift in the amount of light emitted in this waveband can therefore lead to an outbreak of Blue-Greens. Unsuspecting Hobbyists may try to find all kinds of reasons for this growth when all that is really happening is that their bulbs need changing as they are emitting light that is promoting the growth of Blue-Greens.
Mind you, chlorophyll is still involved in the process but what is happening is that the pigments that can uptake the shorter wavelengths transfer it to the ones that need higher ones and so on. A typical sequence of the full photosynthesis cycle of Cyanobacteria would then be:
» energy uptake and transfer from phycoerythrin to phycocyanin, to allophycocyanin, to chlorophyll a. The rest is quite clear. As photosynthesis proceeds and all the processes start to take place, Blue-Green algae suddenly appear in the aquarium.
Note that the picture is more complex still in certain cases and that other pigments and other nutrients are involved as well in the growth. Perhaps this explains why when these algae appear it is so difficult to deal with them and also explains why they appear when we as Hobbyists believe our water quality parameters are such that none should grow.
Remember though: the main culprits are dissolved organic material and carbon dioxide and light of the wavelengths indicated above.
More will be reviewed in Part 3 of this article. As you can well imagine this article requires a great deal of reading and then distilling the information in article form. At the end of the series I will list references and suggested reading materials that you may wish to consult if you want to research this further.
Cyanobacteria Part 3
It has always been assumed that blue-green algae relied for the most part, if not completely, on photosynthesis for growth and reproduction. This may have been the case up to a few years ago but recent findings have demonstrated that Cyanobacteria do not rely solely on CO2 fixation but can and will thrive in environments that are rich in organic matter (I have indicated this in many of my writings and have always suggested that to eradicate blue-greens one needs to skim more efficiently and/or use a compound that oxidizes organic material out of the water so this food source is no longer present). These findings are confirmed by researchers such as Carr and Whitton, Fog, Stuart and Fay, and others still.
Not all Cyanos can utilize this mode of food uptake as some are Obligate Photoautotrophs (meaning they rely totally on photosynthesis for food and growth). It turns out that most of the ones that fit in this category are freshwater types. Most saltwater cyanos rely on either organic foodstuff uptake and/or on photosynthesis (and are called Facultatively Photoheterotrophs), and will uptake organic food and substances if they are available.
Of course, we all know that our aquariums are laden with organic material. This is especially so if the skimmer we are using is not removing organic material efficiently or cannot remove all or the majority of it because it is either too small, or the tank is so heavily stocked that the skimmer cannot keep up with the amount of organic material produced on a continuous basis. Overfeeding would obviously contribute to this situation even more.
It should be noted also that "light" actually enhances the uptake of organic material (Fay). The situation this puts hobbyists in is that not only are we faced with blue-greens that feed on organic substance and their breakdown components, but that light increases the uptake of these substances and results in a more dense and more widespread growth of cyanobacteria. Sort of a Catch 22 situation, unless we realize that we need to do what ever is in our power to keep the amount of organics in the water low, as low as possible. This requires the use of real efficient skimming (hobbyists who do so, do not generally report problems with outbreaks of Cyanos).
What we definitely need to remember from this is that the combination of running high intensity lighting and not paying attention to the amount of organic material in the tank will definitely lead to the appearance of blue-green algae, as should be evident from the information given above. Two methods need to be used in my opinion:
* Skim as efficiently as you can.
* Remove organic material from the aquarium by using an oxidizer (for instance potassium permanganate solutions such as Redox +).
Excellent skimmers abound nowadays. As a rule of thumb it is a good idea to buy one that is rated for at least twice the size of your tank and to acquire a venturi type. Remember that for venturi skimmers to run well they need to be operated with pumps that can develop a lot of pressure on the venturi valve (this allows it to pull in more air and produce smaller bubbles which results in more efficient skimming). In addition to running such a skimmer, you may wish to add potassium permanaganate in small amounts a few times a week. If you wish to read up on Redox + which is such a product you can go to our SW Library and under Product related articles read the product description. Note that other companies manufacture such products and that you are "not" limited to ours.
One way to determine whether your organic load is high is to perform a DO and a BOD test (dissolved oxygen and biological oxygen demand). This is done in the following manner:
* Take two samples of water.
* Use one for immediate testing
* Store the other in the dark making sure there is no air trapped in the container you use (fill it under water and then put the cap on).
* Test the first sample for dissolved oxygen and write the result down
* Store the second sample for 48 hours
* After that time has elapsed, perform a dissolved oxygen test on the second sample.
* Write down the result
* Compare the results of the first test to the second one and note what the difference is
* If it is greater than 1 mg/l your organic load is high and you definitely need to intervene. This is done either by upgrading the skimmer or making it more efficient, or starting a potassium permanganate solution treatment. Ideally and in most cases the better method is to do both.
* Note that even though the tests reveal to some extent what the DOC (dissolved organic carbon) level is, any protein material that is in the tank that has not decomposed yet is not measured by this test and will eventually increase the amount of DOC even further.
* It is important for correct DO and BOD measuring that your test be chemically active. Most tests have expiration dates listed on the box they come in. Make sure yours is still within the useable period. If it is not you will get meaningless results.
It should be quite obvious from the above that keeping organic loads to a minimum is paramount to avoiding outbreaks of Cyanobacteria. The techniques to do so have been outlined. I suggest you seriously consider using them. I have personally found that adding potassium permanganate several times a week will keep all blue-greens out of the tank. Of course, efficient skimming is necessary as well.
If you now have blue-greens in the tank and need to eradicate them, the methods described above will work for you. In addition to them you should siphon as many of the existing ones out. This prevents them from dying off in the tank, decomposing and adding more nutrients to the water which will make more cyanos grow.
Having a blue-green free tank is not difficult. If you follow what was described here and in the previous two installments you will have no trouble achieving this.
It has always been assumed that blue-green algae relied for the most part, if not completely, on photosynthesis for growth and reproduction. This may have been the case up to a few years ago but recent findings have demonstrated that Cyanobacteria do not rely solely on CO2 fixation but can and will thrive in environments that are rich in organic matter (I have indicated this in many of my writings and have always suggested that to eradicate blue-greens one needs to skim more efficiently and/or use a compound that oxidizes organic material out of the water so this food source is no longer present). These findings are confirmed by researchers such as Carr and Whitton, Fog, Stuart and Fay, and others still.
Not all Cyanos can utilize this mode of food uptake as some are Obligate Photoautotrophs (meaning they rely totally on photosynthesis for food and growth). It turns out that most of the ones that fit in this category are freshwater types. Most saltwater cyanos rely on either organic foodstuff uptake and/or on photosynthesis (and are called Facultatively Photoheterotrophs), and will uptake organic food and substances if they are available.
Of course, we all know that our aquariums are laden with organic material. This is especially so if the skimmer we are using is not removing organic material efficiently or cannot remove all or the majority of it because it is either too small, or the tank is so heavily stocked that the skimmer cannot keep up with the amount of organic material produced on a continuous basis. Overfeeding would obviously contribute to this situation even more.
It should be noted also that "light" actually enhances the uptake of organic material (Fay). The situation this puts hobbyists in is that not only are we faced with blue-greens that feed on organic substance and their breakdown components, but that light increases the uptake of these substances and results in a more dense and more widespread growth of cyanobacteria. Sort of a Catch 22 situation, unless we realize that we need to do what ever is in our power to keep the amount of organics in the water low, as low as possible. This requires the use of real efficient skimming (hobbyists who do so, do not generally report problems with outbreaks of Cyanos).
What we definitely need to remember from this is that the combination of running high intensity lighting and not paying attention to the amount of organic material in the tank will definitely lead to the appearance of blue-green algae, as should be evident from the information given above. Two methods need to be used in my opinion:
* Skim as efficiently as you can.
* Remove organic material from the aquarium by using an oxidizer (for instance potassium permanganate solutions such as Redox +).
Excellent skimmers abound nowadays. As a rule of thumb it is a good idea to buy one that is rated for at least twice the size of your tank and to acquire a venturi type. Remember that for venturi skimmers to run well they need to be operated with pumps that can develop a lot of pressure on the venturi valve (this allows it to pull in more air and produce smaller bubbles which results in more efficient skimming). In addition to running such a skimmer, you may wish to add potassium permanaganate in small amounts a few times a week. If you wish to read up on Redox + which is such a product you can go to our SW Library and under Product related articles read the product description. Note that other companies manufacture such products and that you are "not" limited to ours.
One way to determine whether your organic load is high is to perform a DO and a BOD test (dissolved oxygen and biological oxygen demand). This is done in the following manner:
* Take two samples of water.
* Use one for immediate testing
* Store the other in the dark making sure there is no air trapped in the container you use (fill it under water and then put the cap on).
* Test the first sample for dissolved oxygen and write the result down
* Store the second sample for 48 hours
* After that time has elapsed, perform a dissolved oxygen test on the second sample.
* Write down the result
* Compare the results of the first test to the second one and note what the difference is
* If it is greater than 1 mg/l your organic load is high and you definitely need to intervene. This is done either by upgrading the skimmer or making it more efficient, or starting a potassium permanganate solution treatment. Ideally and in most cases the better method is to do both.
* Note that even though the tests reveal to some extent what the DOC (dissolved organic carbon) level is, any protein material that is in the tank that has not decomposed yet is not measured by this test and will eventually increase the amount of DOC even further.
* It is important for correct DO and BOD measuring that your test be chemically active. Most tests have expiration dates listed on the box they come in. Make sure yours is still within the useable period. If it is not you will get meaningless results.
It should be quite obvious from the above that keeping organic loads to a minimum is paramount to avoiding outbreaks of Cyanobacteria. The techniques to do so have been outlined. I suggest you seriously consider using them. I have personally found that adding potassium permanganate several times a week will keep all blue-greens out of the tank. Of course, efficient skimming is necessary as well.
If you now have blue-greens in the tank and need to eradicate them, the methods described above will work for you. In addition to them you should siphon as many of the existing ones out. This prevents them from dying off in the tank, decomposing and adding more nutrients to the water which will make more cyanos grow.
Having a blue-green free tank is not difficult. If you follow what was described here and in the previous two installments you will have no trouble achieving this.
I have been calling this brown algae this whole time which is somewhat right. There is a classification of algae that is brown. But, I do believe what we are dealing with here is cyanobacteria. It is commonly referred to as blue green algae. But, it is just a classification and there are several kinds. This cyanobacteria can be any color, such as our brown slimy friend. So, the greenish colored algae that most of us have seen is a cousin sort of say. And this cyanobacteria is not really a bacteria or algae; it is an in between. Somewhat of a link between the two.
Here is what I think happens. This stuff loves organic materials. Most think that it needs light, not so. I have been saying this for a long time. It does not need light and it likes organic materials. Well here it is. It can do just fine with abundant CO2. Decomposing organic material gives off lots of CO2. Now just think about what happens when we add an enzyme like Hygrozyme. We make an organic feast and boom, explosion. Or, when we add any additive that has any trace of organic material like Liguid Karma which I will not use anymore. I like the stuff but I dabbled with it and did not clean out the trash cans and I got this crap growing again.
And I grow in a sealed room with CO2. Sh*t, I am pumping this slime full of the stuff it likes. When doing hydro I ran air stones in my rezs. Even though oxygen was getting in there so was all the CO2. No wonder I had all kinds of problems. I gave this crap everything it needed. That is why the chillers never worked no matter how cold I dropped it. Temps have nothing to do with this stuff.
Read what I will repost below. The color and the type of cyanobacteria to show up is dependant on the environment . The color of it is dependent on the light spectrum . My rezs are dark. No light getting through and I would assume that is what makes the darker colors appear like brown. Even though there was no light I gave it all the organics it needed and then juiced em up with a room full of CO2. Sh*t, damn and crap.
Oh, and the brown classification of algae had no reference about slime. This cyanobacteria is what gets slimy if you get the right one to pop up. The way it forms can be in many ways, also. The reason our friend gets slimy is because all of these microscopic things connect together like a big colony. Some others free float and you get the picture.
Absolutely no organic material or enzymes in hydro is what I say for now on. Save organics to growing in soil where this problem will not arise. I feel like busting out the hydro gear out and experimenting again. One thing I will have to do for sure is run my air pumps for the rez from outside the room. I do not want to pump the rez full of O2 and CO2. Just O2 from outside.
Let's hear what anybody else thinks after the read I posted above.
Here is what I think happens. This stuff loves organic materials. Most think that it needs light, not so. I have been saying this for a long time. It does not need light and it likes organic materials. Well here it is. It can do just fine with abundant CO2. Decomposing organic material gives off lots of CO2. Now just think about what happens when we add an enzyme like Hygrozyme. We make an organic feast and boom, explosion. Or, when we add any additive that has any trace of organic material like Liguid Karma which I will not use anymore. I like the stuff but I dabbled with it and did not clean out the trash cans and I got this crap growing again.
And I grow in a sealed room with CO2. Sh*t, I am pumping this slime full of the stuff it likes. When doing hydro I ran air stones in my rezs. Even though oxygen was getting in there so was all the CO2. No wonder I had all kinds of problems. I gave this crap everything it needed. That is why the chillers never worked no matter how cold I dropped it. Temps have nothing to do with this stuff.
Read what I will repost below. The color and the type of cyanobacteria to show up is dependant on the environment . The color of it is dependent on the light spectrum . My rezs are dark. No light getting through and I would assume that is what makes the darker colors appear like brown. Even though there was no light I gave it all the organics it needed and then juiced em up with a room full of CO2. Sh*t, damn and crap.
Oh, and the brown classification of algae had no reference about slime. This cyanobacteria is what gets slimy if you get the right one to pop up. The way it forms can be in many ways, also. The reason our friend gets slimy is because all of these microscopic things connect together like a big colony. Some others free float and you get the picture.
Absolutely no organic material or enzymes in hydro is what I say for now on. Save organics to growing in soil where this problem will not arise. I feel like busting out the hydro gear out and experimenting again. One thing I will have to do for sure is run my air pumps for the rez from outside the room. I do not want to pump the rez full of O2 and CO2. Just O2 from outside.
Let's hear what anybody else thinks after the read I posted above.
Man RR you are doing your homework but to say the least it is a bit over my head,but I do get the jest of it. A catch-22.to say the least.It seems one would have to throw everything out and start a-fresh.
One point you made was the correlation of hygrozyme and the fact that it is fuel for algae.I said that from the start when I started using it and being plagued with algae then root rot.I continued for several grows and spend $$$ on equipment that I probably didn,t need.In the end when I got rid of the Hygrozyme I did achieve better results.I use garbage cans for mixing nutes but I usually don,t let it sit any longer then 24 hours.Occassionally I notice after several days that a garbage can that has a bit of liquid on the bottom starts to smell pretty putrid.I always use 35% peroxide and scrub them with a stiff brush and rinse before I mix up nutes for the next feeding.This may be helping in my situation.I still do get a bit root rot at the end of a grow but with the strain being a 50 day one I usually get in under the wire and have better reults then when I had a 65/70 day strain.
It is frustrating to say the least but I can say you are persistent and stubborn which should eventually bring you to a point of mastery over the dreaded brown/blue/grren/algae......sorry I can,t add anything to solve your quandry but my thoughts are with you.I read your posts with anticipation of you overcoming your nightmare...good luck guy...
jarff
One point you made was the correlation of hygrozyme and the fact that it is fuel for algae.I said that from the start when I started using it and being plagued with algae then root rot.I continued for several grows and spend $$$ on equipment that I probably didn,t need.In the end when I got rid of the Hygrozyme I did achieve better results.I use garbage cans for mixing nutes but I usually don,t let it sit any longer then 24 hours.Occassionally I notice after several days that a garbage can that has a bit of liquid on the bottom starts to smell pretty putrid.I always use 35% peroxide and scrub them with a stiff brush and rinse before I mix up nutes for the next feeding.This may be helping in my situation.I still do get a bit root rot at the end of a grow but with the strain being a 50 day one I usually get in under the wire and have better reults then when I had a 65/70 day strain.
It is frustrating to say the least but I can say you are persistent and stubborn which should eventually bring you to a point of mastery over the dreaded brown/blue/grren/algae......sorry I can,t add anything to solve your quandry but my thoughts are with you.I read your posts with anticipation of you overcoming your nightmare...good luck guy...
jarff
jarff said:
Thanks for the kind words. Talking about throwing everything away and starting new; I think that would have to include tossing the place your growing at too. lol. This cyanobacteria is some of the first living things to live on this earth. It is indistructable. I am gonna have to completely understand it to defeat it or keep it away at best. After a little bit of research, again, I think I found my problems which I posted last. I am gonna have to experiment to rule out my new theories. I would love to go back to hydro. At one point I only had to go in the bloom room once a week. Talk about easy street. When I got slimed it has been years of work.
But, I am in no rush. I am tired of dealing with this stuff but willing to still fight it.
Hu$tle Tree$
Member
Good info there Richy....I'm not sure if what we are dealing with is brown algae (diatoms) or cynobacteria either way I am confident it can be controlled. I'm in the process of redesigning my bio system as we speak. I took a pic of my feed lines to show how pervasive the slime was in my setup.
I had over 40 feet of PVC and all of it was completely coated with a layer of that bio-slime. It was eye opening to say the least!! At this point my plan of attack is to completely light proof everything, kill all free floating algae by using a uv sterilizer and going with either a protein skimmer or a mechanical pond filter to rid the reservoir of organics. Aquarium and pond keepers deal with this stuff all of the time, it looks like we'll have to incorporate some of their solutions in our hydro systems.
I had over 40 feet of PVC and all of it was completely coated with a layer of that bio-slime. It was eye opening to say the least!! At this point my plan of attack is to completely light proof everything, kill all free floating algae by using a uv sterilizer and going with either a protein skimmer or a mechanical pond filter to rid the reservoir of organics. Aquarium and pond keepers deal with this stuff all of the time, it looks like we'll have to incorporate some of their solutions in our hydro systems.
Hu$tle Tree$ said:Good info there Richy....I'm not sure if what we are dealing with is brown algae (diatoms) or cynobacteria either way I am confident it can be controlled. I'm in the process of redesigning my bio system as we speak. I took a pic of my feed lines to show how pervasive the slime was in my setup.
I had over 40 feet of PVC and all of it was completely coated with a layer of that bio-slime. It was eye opening to say the least!! At this point my plan of attack is to completely light proof everything, kill all free floating algae by using a uv sterilizer and going with either a protein skimmer or a mechanical pond filter to rid the reservoir of organics. Aquarium and pond keepers deal with this stuff all of the time, it looks like we'll have to incorporate some of their solutions in our hydro systems.
Yep, you understand it. The brown algae are diatoms and this cyanobacteria is another breed. I am more inclined to believe its the cyano because all my reading I could not find reference to the diatoms being slimy. The cyano gets slimy, breeding in clumps or film. The film is when things feel slimy and the clumps on like what is on your finger. The ranting I was doing about the stuff in my trash can in less than 24 hours looks like your finger and everything else was slimy feeling plus the foul smell.
Yes, aquarium products are gonna be where we find our solutions. The UV light in a hydro resevoir has me interested. That, my chiller and some zone and I think the stuff would not be able to grow. It will be waiting if you remove said items but we wouldnt do that. The UV is something I need to try.
Hu$tle Tree$
Member
In all actuality we can be dealing with both cyanobacteria and diatoms, from my reading they can and often do live together in symbiosis. Either way I've got my 36 watt UV sterilizer waiting to be installed, and plan to keep a sterile res with zone. The one problem that I've read about the UV light is that it may cause iron, magnese and a couple other trace elements to fall out of the solution. There is a supplement called ionic balance that is supposed to correct any deficiencies but I've only seen it for sale in the UK. I'll be back up and running in a couple of weeks and I'll definately keep the thread updated with my progress.
And on top of that, think of this. Once the diatoms or cyano suffocate and kill the roots with their slime the environment is then ripe for actual root rot to come in too; meaning pythium. What a sick cycle.
I just picked up a bag of roots organics soil. It looks like good stuff. Gonna try it out one round.
I just picked up a bag of roots organics soil. It looks like good stuff. Gonna try it out one round.
