Strait Coco or Perlite cut???

[justlrnin]

I like my coco with perilite more and feel the same way as MR B but to each their own . Zoo

 

[Greyskull]

I've tried 2g pots of coco w/ perlite mixed in at 30%, 100% coco, and 90%coco + a layer of hydroton at the bottom to keep the coco in the pots. Honestly I cannot tell a difference. Maybe its because I recirculate & ebb n flow. I dunno.
I use both Canna & B'Cuzz cocos. Different plants, too.

No problems with clumping.... I make sure the coco is nicely broke up before i pack the pots. No problems at all whatsoever. When I dump the medium out fo the pots the only clumpiness is the rootball taking up the whole dam pot.

Can you post some pictures of the clumping problem you are describing bongjangles?

 

[Mr. Bongjangles]

Can you post some pictures of the clumping problem you are describing bongjangles?

Hey Greyskull, sure thing, though as I'll touch on below, it is not so much a problem as a property of coco, to me at least..

Here's the coco after getting shaken until it came out of place. Not the best picture, but the big chunk that came loose is pretty clear. This coco was loose in the bag before I potted it up for the experiment, nice and fluffy, so I'm certain this is not happening because of some lacking preparation... This is just what coco does after its in the pot and gets a watering. (and has time to drain)



The pot of coco/perlite absolutely does not do that. I can't get it to make a chunk even close to that size, and like said in other posts, it takes much less effort to shake the coco/perlite out of place.

Granted, that clump of coco would break up by hand with no trouble, but unless you've got earthworms in your coco or something, there is nobody/no way to do that once its in the pot.

So, I don't think this clumping is so much a problem - it strikes me that it is likely related to the fact that coco acts like a sponge which is considered one of its positive attributes. Plenty of cats out there are able to use 1 dripper per pot because of that, for example.

That said, with the proper percentage of perlite, not too much and not too little, we can have that benefit and also create a more healthy environment for the roots.

I'm kinda thinking I'll do a real side-by-side comparison, as I've got some AK clones that will be ready for veg in a few weeks, and that will put the question of "how much better" to rest for me. This is a good cut that yields well, so we can at least get some firm numbers there.

 

[justlrnin]

Mr B that coco looks kinda shitty , have you tried the Canna yet ? Zoo

 

[Guest 18340]

Not trying to start any shit but whats so bad about the coco clumping alittle? Its never affected root growth for any of my plants, the roots fill the whole pot, sometimes even breaking the surface!
So i dont the point of stressing the clumping issue. So adding some perlite will keep it from clumping. OK. But coco isn't like soil. If you get clumping in soil its because its too wet, coco is darn nigh impossible to over water, i've tried it. I've poured 10 gallons of water through a 2 galon pot and the plants were just as perky as any other time.
As the plants drink and the coco becomes drier, the clumps get displaced. Evr let coco totally dry out and then dump the pot? It falls all over the place, no clumps in sight.
Anyway, just asking, whats the big deal?

 

[GET MO]

Good discussion, glad I brought this up, would be a good side by side fa sho. The reason I havent used perlite was cuz Im in a small place and didnt want to breath it in or deal with mixing it, but Im plannin on moving to a bigger spot where I can dedicate a whole room to a hydro system using coco on a drip system. Still undicided, but leaning towards a mix with 1/3 perlite just for price issues, perlites cheaper than canna coco(the only type uh coco I use).

 

[Black Ra1n]

I use cheap coco, just cause I had some and it never clumps like that.

 

[Mr. Bongjangles]

Mr B that coco looks kinda shitty , have you tried the Canna yet ? Zoo

Hey Zoo, I've used Canna in the past, though not recently. No shop I currently do business with stocks the stuff unfortunately, and shipping on bags of coco is too much for me to stomach.

The coco in the pic is Botanicare Cocogro, from a bag. This stuff:



I've been a fan of Botanicare coco for a while now and always thought it stacks up well when I have used other brands.

Here's a pic of it right out of the bag, as I respect your opinion but think the clumping demonstration and crummy picture may have not given Botanicare coco its full due. Reppin' my coco hood LOL

Not trying to start any shit but whats so bad about the coco clumping alittle? Its never affected root growth for any of my plants, the roots fill the whole pot, sometimes even breaking the surface!
So i dont the point of stressing the clumping issue. So adding some perlite will keep it from clumping. OK. But coco isn't like soil. If you get clumping in soil its because its too wet, coco is darn nigh impossible to over water, i've tried it. I've poured 10 gallons of water through a 2 galon pot and the plants were just as perky as any other time.
As the plants drink and the coco becomes drier, the clumps get displaced. Evr let coco totally dry out and then dump the pot? It falls all over the place, no clumps in sight.
Anyway, just asking, whats the big deal?

Hey evlme2, you're good, thanks for adding to the discussion.

To be honest, I'm not sure how bad the coco clumping is, if at all. I'm not trying to make a big deal about it, merely trying to demonstrate that it happens in the first place, as there was some disagreement about that. I was mentioning earlier though, I think its just a side effect of coco's sponginess, which is a good thing. Likely why you can overwater your plants like you mentioned without causing any apparent harm.

That said, my opinion is that a with a little perlite, the coco will sport more even and efficient drainage (and thus more consistent oxygenation and dispersion of nutrients,) possibly because it is resistant to forming those large clumps.

I don't know if the coco becomes unclumped as it dries out as you suggest, but I prefer not to let the coco get too dry anyways. The coco definitely doesn't clump when its dried out, but even when I just add a little bit of water to the fresh coco out of the bag and mix it around in my bin, I see that it spontaneously forms clumps, so I think you'd really have to let the coco get dry to see that unclumping take place as you describe it.

More likely to me it stays clumped, but because coco is a good medium that holds oxygen well, it is not preventing root growth much if at all. Maybe growing through it makes the roots stronger, like a fan makes stems stronger. Doesn't have to be a bad thing.

Maybe some plants like more grit in their medium and there is no universal truth to be found. Maybe top feed is better one way and flooding is best another. I'm down to test it with that AK batch though, be cool if you guys out there with clones could do the same thing.

Hey does anyone like my perlite-discussion custom avatar?

 

[justlrnin]

Bottom line is you and I like perilite and others don't and ya know my friend if it's not broke why should we fix it . Rock on Mr B

 

[C21H30O2]

high thought... what if pure coco and cut coco yield the same and work as well as each other because of different factors. For example the coco with perilite gives more air to the roots where as pure coco allows for greater nutrient retention. They both work just fine but for different reasons. But that makes me think why not go cut coco because perilite is cheaper than coco... hmmm. I also am pondering "would coco with perilite be better in an organic grow because the perilite would serve as a "reef" for microorganisms to propagate from?"

 

[Guest 18340]

Ha Ha, just saw the avatar!
My local 'dro shop dude was just telling me that peeps in Europe are cutting coc with hydroton. Says they get good results that way. Anybody doing that?
This is an interesting thread though, lots of folks use perlite with coco. I have a bag of perlite in my garage, i may just have to give it a try.

You guys who add perlite to your coco, do you reuse the coco? Just curious.

 

[thatguy]

You know, it's kind of funny I found this poll. I was literally JUST thinking of doing the same thing!

Personally, I use 60% coco, 40% perlite, and I top feed, recirc. I let em get nice and big in small pots, and just water more frequently as needed. 4 times a day have been fine with this mix once they're big enough. Got some 2 1/2 ft strawberry cough in 5 1/2 in sq pots right now, and 2 times a day is perfect. Once a day is OK, they seem to use the water quicker, though.

So I want to pose a question: What do you guys think about perlite/coco being better if you're attempting a hydro-style grow, and straight coco for soil-style?

I honestly think coco holds more water than perlite. Ever had bagged coco dry out on you? Notice how much water it took to soak it again? And how heavy it was after?

That's only an assumption, though, never filled a pot with pure perlite to test. May very well do that.

Interested to hear what you guys think.

All the best,
TG

 

[badugi]

I honestly think coco holds more water than perlite. Ever had bagged coco dry out on you? Notice how much water it took to soak it again? And how heavy it was after?

That's only an assumption, though, never filled a pot with pure perlite to test. May very well do that.

I found pure perlite to:

• Hold more water (weigh more after tare)
• Drain slower (holds water weight longer)

I'm sure you won't find much different.

 

[thatguy]

I'll have to check that out then! Not saying I doubt you, but it's just so far away from what I thought, I'll have to check it out for myself!

All the best,
TG

 

[thatguy]

OK, so now I doubt you. Are you using chunky perlite?

Because the comparison I just did proves otherwise. I watered in a cup of coco/perlite, 60/40, and then a cup of pure perlite.

The cup with coco wasn't completely dry, it has a clone in it, so it watered in much quicker than the pure perlite. The perlite drained in about the same time, but much quicker. And it was lighter, about 15-20%.

Which goes in line with my thought about coco/perlite working better for hydro setups.

All the best,
TG

 

[badugi]

I've never weighed perlite & coco mixed together, but I did weigh just perlite and just coco (as I stated previously). Try it that way, you'll find perlite holds more water, longer. I used the standard "Home Depot" perlite (it was actually a 1/4 cu. ft. bag of Black Gold brand, but same thing).

 

[Guest 18340]

Can perlite be reused? As in reusing coco that has perlite mixed in.

 

[thatguy]

I think the size of the perlite may play a factor. I use chunky perlite, and I've seen FF chunky perlite, and it's HUGE. But it's expensive enough to negate the cost argument of adding perlite.

 

[forty]

I think the size of the perlite may play a factor. I use chunky perlite, and I've seen FF chunky perlite, and it's HUGE. But it's expensive enough to negate the cost argument of adding perlite.

the chunky perlite is the only way to go... the cheap home depot stuff tends to turn into a wet slop that can't help anything imo...

i mix in 25% chunky perlite and that seems to work best for me. a 4 cu ft bag of ffarm chunky perlite costs about $25 which is a lot less than quality bagged coco.

 

[GET MO]

so the more perlite u use the more often youd haveta water right? Maybe strait coco is the way to go if you hand water and coco/perlite for a drip system, and maybe someone already said this in this thread.