Some questions about RAW nutrients???

[frostqueen]

About the lighter green growth. Something that I was thinking about is that most if not all the nitrogen in the all in one is coming from the plant protein hydrolysate (omina). The other coming from the calcium nitrate in the cal/mag. However there isn't any ammonium nitrate in the mix. I would recommend adding a very small amount of the RAW Nitrogen supplement. This isn't in the all in one. And as I mentioned before in plain media the Raw Nitrogen was a much better supplement for nitrogen versus the Omina. The best solution would be to have both. Try it if you have the ability and I believe you will get the deeper green color you are looking for.

Hey Roosta. Yeah, good advice and I agree. That lighter green problem is pretty much gone, and the resin stacking at the end of week 4 is every bit as insane as the BioBizz. Next round (if the RAW does well) I will try adding the nitrogen as you recommend, or maybe just go beck to my other soil mix, which already has the bonus nitrogen in it.

At this point I am seeing very little difference between the RAW plants and the BioBizz plants at 4 weeks. Going into week 5 now; they will now start packing on the weight, so I'll update again next weekend.

 

[frostqueen]

You can foliar feed ammoniacal nitrogen as well for a quick fix.

I have been avoiding doing anything additional due to wanting to follow their chart exactly this first round, to see what the base results are. I agree, though. Might go that route next time. After this round I will fine tune the system a bit more to my specific needs. At this point the slightly lighter green has had no observable negative impact upon development. Very impressed so far.

 

[jahshaka]

im subbed really think this line has huge potential...

can feel it in my bones kinda thing.

 

[frostqueen]

im subbed really think this line has huge potential...

can feel it in my bones kinda thing.

Yeah, I have that feeling, too. The results I'm seeing halfway into week 5 are really impressive. Massive resin stacking, tight internal spacing, no deficiencies seen anywhere, etcetera.

So far RAW is equal to a top-tier nute program that costs 4 times as much, so... that's a really good sign. That said, the truth is what goes onto the scale and into the bowl at the end. No conclusions for me until then.

 

[jahshaka]

yes that is a healthy outlook....its happened to me where i have been gassed upon the middway stage to end and then when it came to flavour it was rancid so yeah alot of factors to consider. cant wait to hear outcome.

Peace

 

[frostqueen]

So another update. I'm seeing great results at this point. I'm running 2 different strains; one getting the RAW looks almost identical to the BioBizz formula plants. The WiFi plants getting the BioBizz do have a slight size edge over the RAW WiFis. Not a huge difference, but noticeable. Considering that food regimen is 5 times as expensive I guess that's not too surprising.

I have been using the RAW CalMag for both groups. The RAW feed sheet has me giving them 1/4 tsp of it per gallon. I am seeing the first signs of calcium deficiency in both groups, so I would say that hitting them with 1/4 tsp is not quite enough for me. The one factor that could play into calcium uptake would be low soil ph; I don't really see that as very likely, though, as the Promix tends to stay up around 6... I guess it's possible that it drifted lower overall after 5 weeks. I add all liquids at 6ph as a general rule.

Bottom line regarding the calcium: I'm going to use more next time. I only used it every other time with the BioBizz and that is definitely not enough. 1/4 tsp every time would be a minimum, at least as far as my needs go. The deficiency is minor; I think they just need a bigger bump.

 

[audiohi]

If you're using their whole line according to their feeding schedule, just watch out for over feeding. Your deficiency may not be a result of that, but usually where I like to start.

Calcium is taken up at the very new growth root tips. Many things can disrupt those.

 

[cvp]

What's up everyone.

New to the forum. Was just doing some research on the all in one formulas.

I have been using the yucca, fulvic/humic acid, mollasses & kelp solubles along with compost, bat guano & worm castings making compost tea with an air pump. Worked nicely.

Also use that mixture on the fruit vegetables which are going mental.

Looking to use RAW for some autos next. What do people think about these all in one formulas for autos?

 

[frostqueen]

If you're using their whole line according to their feeding schedule, just watch out for over feeding. Your deficiency may not be a result of that, but usually where I like to start.

Calcium is taken up at the very new growth root tips. Many things can disrupt those.

Interesting. I've been doing feed feed water using their chart and haven't seen any signs of overfeeding yet. I'll keep an eye out. The calcium deficiency I'm seeing is very minor at this point, so no huge concern. Just me nitpicking.

I have to say that the resin output is fairly insane. Granted this is WiFi, but I'm still really impressed. 3 more weeks!

Looking to use RAW for some autos next. What do people think about these all in one formulas for autos?

I don't have much experience with autos, but I'd say start them with the veg all-in-one along with calcium and B1 as per RAW's veg chart, then switch over to the bloom all-in-one at about week 6-8 or so... or when you start to see a lot of pistils forming.

 

[frostqueen]

Okay, another update. I'm just finishing week 8 and have already done the first yucca flush. At this point things look great; I'm seeing resin development similar to the BioBizz regimen, as well as getting good solidity. It seems at this point that yields will be similar.

That means that it's coming down to final quality, and what goes onto the scale and into the bowl. I will watch the trichs this week for signs of earlier or later finish times.

Other than some minor calcium deficiency early on I haven't seen any issues. They yellowed a bit earlier in late bloom than the BioBizz plants, but the BBizz plants were in 1/2 Pro Mix and 1/2 FF Ocean Forest, and these RAW plants were in straight Pro Mix. Meaning: less stored nitrogen there with no EWC or compost.

I have also decided to move ahead with a larger 3 light test. This time I'll see how Gorilla Glue #4 likes this stuff. I didn't use the microbes for the last run, but I will for this next run. I am also going to use my 1/2 Pro Mix and 1/2 FFOF soil mix on this round. It's hard to beat the micros and other goodies in that FFOF and the cost is about the same, so why not.

These GG#4s have been getting the veg nutrients and look beautiful. I have done a kelp foliar spray every week. RAW suggests using a ratio of 5 parts humic acid and 2 parts kelp extract, and this seems to be reducing the internode lengths quite a bit and increasing side branching.

Also, there are some issues with using measuring spoons and cups vs. weighing the nutrients. Both the grow and bloom tend to clump due to various goodies in them, so weighing has been preferable. Unfortunately they don't weigh as much as the RAW chart indicates; they weigh 25% less. IOW, a teaspoon of all-in-one grow weighs 6 grams on their chart, but when I measure out 1 tsp and throw it on my scale... it weighs 4.5 grams. That's a bit more of a difference than I am comfortable with, so I will email them about it. I went with the lower weight for this run.

 

[audiohi]

Since you're using soil... Any plan on using the molasses for the finish? Might as well take advantage of that bacteria

 

[frostqueen]

Allrighty. Anybody following along at home? I am pretty much thrilled with this first run. I only ran 2 each of two strains, but the results were slightly better than the BioBizz program that I have used for years now (the one that costs 5 times as much).

The RAW WiFi and WiFi #3 both look fucking insane. Sorry about no pictures; too damned busy at this point. The other strain is Black Betty x White Rhino, and those look better, too.

I'm not one to jump to premature conclusions. I feel that this is a major problem with many growers; I want to see repeated good results with a few different strains before deciding. This helps to eliminate fluctuating environmental factors and the like. That said, I'm ramping it up.

Looking back at this run, I fudged a few minor things that I will fix in this next Gorilla Glue run. For one, I didn't use RAW's veg or bloom microbes. They are fairly inexpensive, so I will get those in there this round. I will also be using weight for measuring out the all-in-one grow and bloom, and measuring spoons for the other 3 or 4 additives. As mentioned above, the suggested weights are actually ~20% higher than the suggested volume measurements for these two items. They clump a bit, so using weight is preferable. I will also be switching from straight Pro Mix to 1/2 Pro Mix and 1/2 FF Ocean Forest. The straight Pro Mix dries out just a bit faster than I prefer, and the FFOF has characteristics that will benefit a microbial population.

I also did kelp foliars once a week throughout veg. RAW has me mixing 5 parts fulvic acid to 2 parts kelp extract. The plants really seem to love this. They get leaf boners, and they seem to stretch less and have better branching than without.

To explain the system a bit more, RAW has you giving the all-in-one nutes as the primary food source. It already has many of the goodies in it that can also be purchased as separate components. I'm doing feed-feed-water; so water only every third time. Or AACT if I get it made.

To this all-in-one you then add a few other things at specific times when they are most needed: Calmag throughout veg and ~4 weeks into flower, B1 at various times; a bit of extra phosphorous to stimulate root growth and boost bloom during weeks 1-4 of flower; and then a bit more potassium during weeks 5-7 to boost oils, resin, and general ripening. They also have you use yucca for the final week to 10 days for the flush.

I'll be pulling down these plants over the next few days. I will post a smoke report after a week or two in a jar to cure a bit.

Since you're using soil... Any plan on using the molasses for the finish? Might as well take advantage of that bacteria

I do microbeman's AACT/tea, so it has some molasses in it. I usually do this for the water portion (every third time). I don't add extras to my tea; it is just to boost the microbes, not to feed the plant.

 

[audiohi]

Well, sugars like molasses can't actually be taken up into the plant. They're too complex of a molecule. The molasses replaces the sugars that the plant typically supplies to the beneficial bacteria. In the final flowering stage, the plant reaches it's needed stored sugars and stops producing. If you feed that bacteria which now isn't being fed, they will resume chelating iron. This in turn signals the plant to begin producing sugars again for the final stretch.

Like you said though, you'd also want to add some when you inoculate or make teas.

Congrats on the excellent results while lowering your costs!

 

[frostqueen]

Well, sugars like molasses can't actually be taken up into the plant. They're too complex of a molecule. The molasses replaces the sugars that the plant typically supplies to the beneficial bacteria. In the final flowering stage, the plant reaches it's needed stored sugars and stops producing. If you feed that bacteria which now isn't being fed, they will resume chelating iron. This in turn signals the plant to begin producing sugars again for the final stretch.

Like you said though, you'd also want to add some when you inoculate or make teas.

Congrats on the excellent results while lowering your costs!

Thanks, man. If you look at the RAW component food chart, cane molasses is already in the all-in-one. FWIW. I did the week 8 cane molasses addition as you describe, though. What I meant by 'not feeding the plant' in my teas is not adding other things like guanos.

I'm not too heavily concerned with costs, but this is pretty significant. I'll be running Cutting Edge nutrients for my next test after this upcoming round. I like to know several different systems.

 

[RoostaPhish]

Their recommended finishing formula is a combination of the yucca and molasses. Can be found on their website. Hyper accelerate the micros!

 

[jahshaka]

thanks for updates frostqueen. think im gonna do a full run with them. what will be mega helpful is we all got together and made a metric chart with grams and litres and one with gallons too. the spoon thing is shit. tried it...really just playing a guessing game.

p.s using the kelp and humic foliar at the moment deffo works. they look as healthy as can be.

 

[frostqueen]

thanks for updates frostqueen. think im gonna do a full run with them. what will be mega helpful is we all got together and made a metric chart with grams and litres and one with gallons too. the spoon thing is shit. tried it...really just playing a guessing game.

p.s using the kelp and humic foliar at the moment deffo works. they look as healthy as can be.

I'm pulling in those WiFis today. I'll hopefully get a good picture or two for you. They definitely have more weight and resin than the BioBizz. Amazing results this time. It all comes down to flavor and finished qualities now. If that measures up I'm going to make the switch.

I look forward to seeing how the next round does in a slightly different soil mix; I think that will be even better. Especially with the microbes added this time. That group is one week into bloom and looks great.

I discovered one thing regarding weights and measurements: the all-in-one grow actually weighs 3 grams per teaspoon, not 4 grams as RAW states on their chart. The all-in-one bloom does weigh 4 grams per teaspoon as stated. I checked like 5 times to be sure, using some fully-powdered veg from a previous bag.

That basically means that their 'by weight' chart is off by at least 25% in the case of the veg nutes. Not too thrilled with that. I didn't see any signs of overfeeding; my first bag of veg was fully powdered and I used measuring spoons that time. I will email Harley this week; I have a list of questions for him.

Understand that the grow and bloom formulations are the only ones that can clump and that you'll use a lot of, so really should be weighed out. All of the other items like the Calmag and B vitamins are easily measured out with spoons.

The all-in-one veg in particular seems especially prone to clumping. I just ordered a 2-pounder of it and it was a solid brick. I'll have to use a knife on it to get my required weight each time. Not ideal, but it isn't rock hard or anything; it cuts easily and dissolves fine. It has the ominA and cane molasses in it, so clumping is gonna happen. It seems very well mixed, so no big deal IMO. I also have two 2-pound bags of all-in-one bloom that are fully powdered.

I'll report back here about what Harley says regarding the weight issues. Should have a photo or two of finished flowers, too.

For anyone wanting to try these out, I'd start with the all-in-one. It has everything in it that the component system has, minus the Calmag and B vitamins, and some added P and K, which goes a long way. I don't see much reason to buy 12 packets of nutes when the all-in-one has everything added already.

 

[audiohi]

All of the 12 packets are intended so that you can tailor to your needs.

The individual components are all intended to be used with a complete fertilizer regimine. Or at least were prior to them offering the Grow & Bloom. In a recirculating reservoir, you can add back specifically what is being consumed by your plants. In times of stress, you can add b-vitamines. Need more roots? Add a touch of phosphorus. Need more cell division in veg? Use the kelp. Etc etc.... But regardless you'd still need a base.

Always remember, they're trying to sell you fertilizer. You don't ever need to use all of those additives at any given time. Actually, you probably shouldn't.


Sidenote.... Keep the yucca dry or it'll clump like you wouldn't believe. Glass jar works best.

One more tip, just weigh it on a scale and you won't have to guess.

 

[jahshaka]

frostqueen glad to hear of your findings. bio bizz can get really expensive. really looking forward to the final results.

Theres also something i found amazing about the omina and calmag. i was using on some mums and took some cuts and i shit u not most of them were done by 7 days in jiffys. bursting with roots. will do again and post pics. they were some of the healthiest i ever seen. The only changes i made to the mums were to use that omina and cal mag and i got the most vigourous cuts to date. try it you will be shocked.

audiohi some great points made, its a versatile line that really lets one tinker to find that optimum sweet spot, just use caution to all newcomers to this line.

All in all im really pleased with the products. Except in the u.k they dont have the adjustable spoons so its a pain guessing. they really should have a gallons and litres chart with grams for weights would make life so much easier.

 

[frostqueen]

frostqueen glad to hear of your findings. bio bizz can get really expensive. really looking forward to the final results.

Theres also something i found amazing about the omina and calmag. i was using on some mums and took some cuts and i shit u not most of them were done by 7 days in jiffys. bursting with roots. will do again and post pics. they were some of the healthiest i ever seen. The only changes i made to the mums were to use that omina and cal mag and i got the most vigourous cuts to date. try it you will be shocked.

audiohi some great points made, its a versatile line that really lets one tinker to find that optimum sweet spot, just use caution to all newcomers to this line.

All in all im really pleased with the products. Except in the u.k they dont have the adjustable spoons so its a pain guessing. they really should have a gallons and litres chart with grams for weights would make life so much easier.

Hey, nice tip about the ominA and Calmag. I'll give that a try. I use Mother Plant food on my moms to amazing results. Very consistent stuff. (Harley came up with that for another company.) A Calmag boost every month or so is a good idea for sure.

I will say only one thing about the ominA that I didn't like at all: they recommend it as a foliar to boost N... they have you spray the undersides of the leaves... it seriously pissed off every plant I hit it with. I used 1/4 tsp per gallon as they suggest; ugh. I suggest that they stop suggesting that. I was dumb enough to try it a second time; it did the same thing. I'd avoid doing that. I'll mention that to Harley when I get that email off to him.

That 5:2 fulvic/kelp spray is awesome, though. (.5 gram of FA to .2 gram of kelp extract per gallon.) I do that once a week and they looove it. That promotes rooting as well.

The WiFi is hanging. It looked ama-zing, clearly better than the BioBizz. BioBizz is great stuff if you go the fully-organic route, but I'm tired of the $400 gallons of BioHeaven. I have a BioCanna formula that gets very similar results; it uses BioBoost. I'd bet cash money that ominA is very similar to BioHeaven. They smell exactly the same.

As I said before, it's all about final quality and flavor now. Weight and resin were fantastic.