Some concerns ...

[Gray Wolf]

Good idea!

For those of ya'll who are unaware, Ricky B has been one of the pioneers behind butane recovery that I have drawn from, and always value his sage insight.

I agree that we need to move to the next level. When I selected the Appion, it was to extract large volumes of donated material for oral cancer meds, and a three rinse cycle on a Mk III running hot is about 15 minutes start to finish.

When we expanded that to making cotton candy, we started running the pumps about four times as long, most of that time under vacuum and poorly lubricated.

WolfWurx is of course doing pump research, not because the Haskel isn't adequate, but because it takes about a 10 horse compressor to provide enough air to run it at maximum performance, placing it outside most households. The Haskel is only about $2,600, but it takes about a $7,000 compressor to run it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Eaton-Compr...ry-Screw-Air-Compressor-Package-/360877371796

What is needed to keep butane recycle in households, is a reasonably priced alternative.

 

[Rickys bong]

Thanks GW, something I've wondered about the Haskell is modifying it to run with a much smaller drive cylinder.
The smallest Haskell has a 4 inch cylinder which is sized to give an output pressure of over 400psi. For most recovery ops the downstream pressure rarely exceeds 50 psi so you could get away with a 1" or smaller drive cylinder and save a metric crapload of air.

A little more complex mod would have two 3/4" cylinders on the same rod but only feed one piston unless you need the extra pressure. Most of the time one of the two could be non-functional. Feeding a 3/4 " x 2-1/2" cylinder compared to the Haskell's 4" x 2-1/2" drive cylinder would only use 1/28th of the air volume...

This is a bit simplistic and the drag from the seals on the Haskell might factor more into the equation, but maybe it's something to consider.

Ricky

 

[Gray Wolf]

Thanks GW, something I've wondered about the Haskell is modifying it to run with a much smaller drive cylinder.
The smallest Haskell has a 4 inch cylinder which is sized to give an output pressure of over 400psi. For most recovery ops the downstream pressure rarely exceeds 50 psi so you could get away with a 1" or smaller drive cylinder and save a metric crapload of air.

A little more complex mod would have two 3/4" cylinders on the same rod but only feed one piston unless you need the extra pressure. Most of the time one of the two could be non-functional. Feeding a 3/4 " x 2-1/2" cylinder compared to the Haskell's 4" x 2-1/2" drive cylinder would only use 1/28th of the air volume...

This is a bit simplistic and the drag from the seals on the Haskell might factor more into the equation, but maybe it's something to consider.

Ricky

Yeah, I've considered just making my own. I'm thinking that a simple pneumatic cylinder, with PTFE seals, and complementary check valves, would do a good job if cycled back and forth using either another air cylinder, or mechanical linkage.

 

[icdog]

GW are you running the Haskel yet? Is it simple to run and setup? It needs a 10 HP compressor? Does it matter if its a rotary compressor?

 

[Gray Wolf]

GW are you running the Haskel yet? Is it simple to run and setup? It needs a 10 HP compressor? Does it matter if its a rotary compressor?

I'll get some performance figures this week. It doesn't matter if it is a rotary screw compressor, it just needs 40 scfm of clean air at 150psi for maximum performance.

A rotary screw compressor with a refrigerative drier and holding tank with bottom vent, is usually the cheapest way to get that volume of clean air.

 

[Fazer1HashTrees]

Hey there guys which pump would you recommend? The rg6000(subzero recommends) or the reftek diablo(bhogart recommends). I am very confused because some article going around saying the appion pumps arent safe and can explode. Bhogart has said they have never heard of this happening after thousands of hours of people using pumps and thousands of pumps sold? Have any of you heard of such claims I can get the link to the article for you guys if you haven't seen it.

 

[djelliott916]

Hey there guys which pump would you recommend? The rg6000(subzero recommends) or the reftek diablo(bhogart recommends). I am very confused because some article going around saying the appion pumps arent safe and can explode. Bhogart has said they have never heard of this happening after thousands of hours of people using pumps and thousands of pumps sold? Have any of you heard of such claims I can get the link to the article for you guys if you haven't seen it.

Search around, that horse has been beatin-o-plenty!

 

[Fazer1HashTrees]

I have been searching around do you know a good pump? Can you please answer my questions? I have been searching on this for about a week now it is holding me back from closing the loope.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Hey there guys which pump would you recommend? The rg6000(subzero recommends) or the reftek diablo(bhogart recommends). I am very confused because some article going around saying the appion pumps arent safe and can explode. Bhogart has said they have never heard of this happening after thousands of hours of people using pumps and thousands of pumps sold? Have any of you heard of such claims I can get the link to the article for you guys if you haven't seen it.

I know of no explosions, but Appion has issued a disclaimer and warning that the pump isn't explosion proof.

A Haskel is explosion proof, but a significant investment if you include the compressor required.

A Caresaver is explosion proof, but not oil less and slow.

A number of brothers and sisters working on this problem.

 

[Fazer1HashTrees]

Thanks for answering my questions Grey Wolf. What recovery pump would you suggest to start. I am looking to spend $500-$800 on one because I am also buying the closed loope extractor and vac oven.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Thanks for answering my questions Grey Wolf. What recovery pump would you suggest to start. I am looking to spend $500-$800 on one because I am also buying the closed loope extractor and vac oven.

I can't recommend any pump that isn't certified by its manufacturer for our use, but I personally own an Appion, and have had good luck with Skunk Pharm Research's TR-21 and my customers Pro Max 6000.

Appion is holding up a cross between us'n and thems, so I would most likely buy a TR-21 and build a decent heat exchanger, if those were the choices.

What I am doing in the interim, is R&D to find a better solution. We need something affordable, explosion proof, and salubrious from a contamination standpoint.

We will test other pumps and other means of insuring contamination free solvent.

 

[Fazer1HashTrees]

We definitely do need something affordable. Its weird how appion is not willing to work with us. They are in Colorado its not illegal to make a better pump they just don't have to say to use it for your hash oil. Whoever comes out with a pump that meets the standards we need will be making some good money.

What would the heat exchanger be for ive never heard of these used with recovery pumps? How would you go about making one? Thanks Greywolf you have been very helpful.

 

[pharmco]

Take a look at the CPS MT69, Fazer

 

[Gray Wolf]

We definitely do need something affordable. Its weird how appion is not willing to work with us. They are in Colorado its not illegal to make a better pump they just don't have to say to use it for your hash oil. Whoever comes out with a pump that meets the standards we need will be making some good money.

What would the heat exchanger be for ive never heard of these used with recovery pumps? How would you go about making one? Thanks Greywolf you have been very helpful.

The MT69 tubes are too small to use with butane at ultra low temperatures, because of how thick it gets and because any water freezes and forms slush. We now make our own, and our design is evolving.

Our first one was an insulated stainless pot with couplings welded in the bottom and side, so that a 20' coil of 3/8" stainless tubing self drains out the bottom port. Picture below of outside plumbing. With ice water and dry ice, it dropped the tank pressure 100 psi.

I have two ~ 8 1/2" coils of 3/8" stainless tubing 50' long en-route, for the next round and will wind smaller coils in the same exchanger, for cooling other streams, as well as for a liquid N2 stream to cool the exchanger itself.

 

[Permacultuure]

wort chillers and jockey boxes are good places to start a google search if ones trying to build their own "molecular transformer", under a hundy for the coil, and a few compression fittings and your goden. You could even call yourself a "brofressional molecular transformer engineer" !!!

 

[Permacultuure]

This is whats replaced my mt69, over paid for the coil, but kept it local

 

[HG23]

Looks nice Perma,

You place that in a liquid bath between the refrig. tank and the terpenator right?

Does that eliminate the need to chill the tank itself?

Thanks.

 

[Permacultuure]

Yes and no, If running an cps tr-21 you must have a heat exchanger (pictured) after the pump, before the tank, and tank on ice.

Im currently using promax and apps, so I have a DI/Alky heat exchanger before my injection port as well as on the recovery side. This way, yes I can run without my tank on ice, actually on a scale to accurately measure lbs per run. Still playing around with chilling the tank or not, coil diameters, lengths ect. but the idea is to get away from chilling the tanks, especially 100# and up.....

 

[Permacultuure]

Before injection i'd recomend 30-50' coil and as GW noted, 3/8" minimum other wise we've ran into clogging the 1/4' coils and lines.

Can any one tell me the correct term for a glycol chiler thqt we could set these coils in, immersion chillers dont seems to be applicable and i cant talk perty enough to explain wut I want

 

[flatslabs]

Before injection i'd recomend 30-50' coil and as GW noted, 3/8" minimum other wise we've ran into clogging the 1/4' coils and lines.

Can any one tell me the correct term for a glycol chiler thqt we could set these coils in, immersion chillers dont seems to be applicable and i cant talk perty enough to explain wut I want

To cool fermenters in the brewery we use what are called glycol jacketed fermenters. There are cooling lines into another room that houses the glycol pump / heat exchanger which is a big air conditioner like thing.

What you are creating already as an alternative to the MT69 is technically an immersion chiller, so thats not what you want to search for. If you want to cool that immersion chiller with glycol then you are going to need another heat exchanger and pump for the glycol.

If I am understanding that is what you want to do, I might suggest you look into a stainless steel counterflow chiller like this and modify it for your needs:

http://www.williamsbrewing.com/STAINLESS-CONVOLUTED-COUNTERFLOW-CHILLER-P3452.aspx