Some Advice for 9x13 automated room setup

[cosminc]

How would you put the lights and which would be the best cooling method for the lights ? I was actually thinking of doing (10) 600 w digital

 

[Whatever]

How would you put the lights and which would be the best cooling method for the lights ? I was actually thinking of doing (10) 600 w digital

8 600's will do just fine and don't feel 10 is necessary.

This link will answer some questions regarding cooling but can't remember if someone else posted this here. Do your research.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=80395&page=1&pp=15&highlight=manifold+system

EDIT - yeah...Pharmacan posted that link and guess you didn't read it? As for the Nanny...great for those who don't have their nute programs dialed in yet and need help keeping things in check.

 

[NPK]

If you decide to air-cool your lights, be sure to pull air in from a clean location. When air-cooling six 600s in two rows of three, I pulled air in from the crawl space beneath my house and had horrible powdery mildew to show for it, even after putting filters over the intakes. Better I should have pulled it in from the garage out exhausted into the crawl space. You definitely don't want to repeat this mistake!

 

[DEDHEDFRED]

NPK...That sux Bro........I pull all my fresh air from crawlspaces.......I only grow in basements .....Advance Auto Parts has a company that makes HEPA re-washable /re-useable pre-filters made to anyone`s specs for their particular size intake fans only they`re not grow related......teehee....They`re "oversized" truck air filters but when I saw some at a hydro site for like $125 and they were disposeable cuz they were made of thick paper I thought what kinda shit is that ?........Went straight to my auto parts guy and he hooked me up for like 50 bucks custom made.....Took a couple weeks but they`ve got flexible rubber ends and fit snugly on my vortex fans without even needing clamps.......Also NPK.....With the difference in temps and humidity pullin from a crawlspace to cool the hot lights is probably what caused your problems along with your reflectors not being sealed......Anyways......Cosminc.....Mr. C`s highly knowledgeable and a very respected member here....You would do well by his suggestions.........I`ve run automated ebb and flow buckets for almost 5 yrs. in flip rooms w/3-600`s over 35-5 gal. buckets in each room a month or so apart in age turning on and off every 12 hrs. and only go to my setups once a week so your availability to your grow is directly related to how much you wanna spend to have the system automated ......Believe me......It`s all about the investment versus the return......00420 is the man with all his setups but it`s really how much you wanna be a part of your grow.........I got over that shit yrs. ago with krusty buckets and I`ve got too much goin on in the real world to be worried bout plants and rooms that`re dialed and really only need rez changes or trimming and shaping couple times during the cycle..............I started running vertical rooms several months ago......They`re top fed coco DTW open end 1/4" driptubing w/5 gal. smartpots fed once a day through the stretch and then after a good flush , blasted w/bloom nutes twice a day till 3-5 days before chop......My ebb and flow buckets will retire as they finish and get retroed into vertical racks............Take care and good luck Bro....Sky`s the limit if you`ve got deep pockets.......You can go as far as you wanna take it......Look how Pimp Juice`s "intellidose" has run his grows for weeks at a time......Peace..........DHF........ .......

 

[cosminc]

What size air scrubber should I use ? Also what is the maximum length cable from the digi ballast to the light ?

 

[Whatever]

To be fully automated you first need to have a clue what you're automating and why. I got a couple of brand new Welco WPX-1 pumps sitting in a box collecting dust as I was planning on doing a pH and nute dose system but since in the basement never needed to set it up cause I was checking almost every day anyway and finally got the nute program dialed in.

There's potential problems with an automated system if you don't know the basics...I learned to like to see the pH and EC swings/cycles cause it helped me understand things better and finally got things dialed in to the point where could go 3-4 days without any top off, water addition or pH down or anything.

Once you understand what's going on and why then a fully automated system can be a god send otherwise you could just end up masking problems you really needed to get sorted out.

 

[cosminc]

NPK...That sux Bro........I pull all my fresh air from crawlspaces.......I only grow in basements .....Advance Auto Parts has a company that makes HEPA re-washable /re-useable pre-filters made to anyone`s specs for their particular size intake fans only they`re not grow related......teehee....They`re "oversized" truck air filters but when I saw some at a hydro site for like $125 and they were disposeable cuz they were made of thick paper I thought what kinda shit is that ?........Went straight to my auto parts guy and he hooked me up for like 50 bucks custom made.....Took a couple weeks but they`ve got flexible rubber ends and fit snugly on my vortex fans without even needing clamps.......Also NPK.....With the difference in temps and humidity pullin from a crawlspace to cool the hot lights is probably what caused your problems along with your reflectors not being sealed......Anyways......Cosminc.....Mr. C`s highly knowledgeable and a very respected member here....You would do well by his suggestions.........I`ve run automated ebb and flow buckets for almost 5 yrs. in flip rooms w/3-600`s over 35-5 gal. buckets in each room a month or so apart in age turning on and off every 12 hrs. and only go to my setups once a week so your availability to your grow is directly related to how much you wanna spend to have the system automated ......Believe me......It`s all about the investment versus the return......00420 is the man with all his setups but it`s really how much you wanna be a part of your grow.........I got over that shit yrs. ago with krusty buckets and I`ve got too much goin on in the real world to be worried bout plants and rooms that`re dialed and really only need rez changes or trimming and shaping couple times during the cycle..............I started running vertical rooms several months ago......They`re top fed coco DTW open end 1/4" driptubing w/5 gal. smartpots fed once a day through the stretch and then after a good flush , blasted w/bloom nutes twice a day till 3-5 days before chop......My ebb and flow buckets will retire as they finish and get retroed into vertical racks............Take care and good luck Bro....Sky`s the limit if you`ve got deep pockets.......You can go as far as you wanna take it......Look how Pimp Juice`s "intellidose" has run his grows for weeks at a time......Peace..........DHF........ .......

Thanks for your advice, I was leaning toward a Ebb flow setup and am now looking at a complete intellidose climate and dose controller which will cost upwards of $4000 for everything but will pretty much control everything once dialed in and all I would need to do is check up and a little trimming here and there a little moving around but that would be about it. What would get me better yields an ebb setup or vertical racks ?

 

[DEDHEDFRED]

Lemme tell yas how easy it is for an ebb and flow bucket setup ........I run huge rez`s with R/O water topping them off with each feed cycle lights on that slowly dwindles ppm`s but keeps ph in the proper zones for optimum nutrient uptake while drifting up as the plants eat their nutes..........I come in once a week and flush the plants , remix and change out rez`s , set it and forget it........I`m actually doin more work with my vertical rooms but they yield more so ........I can deal with the pain.....Pimpjuice`s coco in bato buckets DTW might be an option you wanna consider for pre-assembled systems that you don`t haveta build.......Looks like he`s killin it this run with his intellidose running his room................Vertical racks take experience and knowledge of pumps and head pressure as in how far a pump can work vertically so each plant site can be fed equally through control valves on each level of plants but they`re do-able and yield accordingly.......Holler if I can help Bro.......DHF....... ...........

 

[J. Greenstein]

Lots of great info on this thread, thanks guys!

 

[mister420green]

Just to put my 2 cents in. Just always keep in mind that every environment is different. What may work perfectly for someone else may not work that well for you. If you have investors plan on your first year as an experimental year with more failures than successes. Not trying to rain on the parade as I don't have a dog in this fight, just offering real advice. Always plan small and keep at least $1K on hand in case of emergencies. Your compressor may go out, a hose from the R/O filter may break, the R/O machine may fall and you may crack a piece that isn't replaceable. You may encounter spider mites and on a large scale you're bound to overlook some plants (100+). Always, always buy a few meters, pumps and oscillating fans...they WILL break down. Keep bleach on hand, lay pond liner...not home depot (no vinyl --- bad bad bad) test your intake and exhaust with all other movement in the room absolutely still. Fuck the ozone shit go crazy on carbon filters all around. Plan, plan and replan. Make your perfect room then pick that shit apart. Play the devil's advocate. Take your emotions and excitement and throw them out the door, shoot them with a 12 gauge and burn them just for the hell of it. Your heart will be broken a couple of times. This is just the truth. If you plan on running all that you need to talk to someone about the electricity. There are always very creative ways. Just remember, right now nobody is spending that much in electric. Everybody across the nation of America is scaling down with all costs. Take that into consideration. Find out what your electric usage was for the past year - or the electric usage for the house you are using, and push it up every month. Start a fictitious welding business and have a business license. This is serious if you have unlimited funds. Cover your ass. Make sure THIS IS SOOOO IMPORTANT, make sure you have an attorney on retainer. Not just some schmo, get the best attorney for the biggest city near you. Pay him well and you will be well. If you're in a state that is legal, abide by their laws. If not, go balls out and keep your mouth shut. Again, get your excitement and happiness and dreams and all that fairy tale bullshit and throw it out the door and carry out the death process. You will have a heart attack if you don't. Growing 1-50 plants is basic. Every 10 there after will carry issues. If it's not the plants, it's the pumps, if it's not the pumps, it's the floods, if it's not the floods, it's the ac, if it's not the ac it's the burners in the CO2 or the solenoid, if it's not that it's mildew, if it's not that it's root rot, if it's not that it's the timer issues. I cannot tell you how many things you will encounter in your first year. Be prepared. Oh and did I mention to get a shop vac, the biggest muthfucker you can find. Have two of those on hand. One with a filter to get all the dry shit and one without to suck up all the water that will eventually end up on the floor. Buy a case of Great stuff and gorilla tape. After your first year you'll know your environment and your strain, you'll know what you can push it to and things become turnkey. But take your first year to get to know everything. Read and learn. You're learning to fail if not once at least a couple of times. It's a learning process and anybody who says you can go into this and make money and have incredible success (2 lbs per light ... ha!) they are full of shit. Things happen and it's better to be prepared than to have wishful thinking. Please take it from me. I've been there, done that and am still learning. Beating head sometimes wondering if I'm an idiot because I can't make things right. I've been close to a nervous breakdown. However, there is a flip side. After you have found your nutrient recipe (which will take time to perfect) and you know your strain, you know you've covered every inch of that room from framing to insulation to radiant barrier to soundproofing, you know that when you exhaust it smells like someone is running the dryer... it is then my friend when you will be able to reap the rewards. But that takes time. Take your time in the construction process. Paint the walls with the right type of paint, insulate with R-30 or above and make sure you have room with the framing. Learn electrical, you will need this valuable source of knowledge, not just wiring ballasts or hood, get into the dirt and learn your panel, how electricity works and what wiring is best. Before you even plan on what type of system to run in that room, worry about the framing, vibrations, sealing, exhausting, ac's, etc... Take this one step at a time and take your time. This is a big step and investment. I've been in peoples pockets well above 60K because I got my hopes too high. Try to hope for a sliver of the best and plan for the worst. Remember the more plants the more issues. I'm by no means downplaying any of the incredible, creative and ingenious people on here that are on a small scale, because I'm sure they encounter their own issues, I'm just saying that when you take it to the next level, shit gets complicated. And the work increases. Don't plan on having a full time job, you are a scientist now and being in that room is your job. You literally have to become God of that room. And that shit ain't easy. Just trying to help you out. Like I said, rewards will be great after you get it all down. You will be able to always afford what you want, send your kids to any college they want, do the things you want to do on the weekends, even if that means learning to fly a plane, sky's the limit. But you won't get that within a year, hell not even 2 years, shit not even 4. This is a major investment. Make sure you can handle what Mary has to offer, she's the most amazing girl I've ever met but motherfucker she is needy and a gold digger. She wants it all if you're indoors. Oh and take note on the digitals, a buddy of mine was running 12 750 lumateks and he said it messed with the rf interference. This is something you don't want happening if a squad car comes rolling down your street and there's a sudden interference on his radio. Lumatek may have corrected this problem but find out from them NOT your grow store. Those jackasses will tell you anything you want to hear, oh and we'll knock off tax for you on that, we take care of you here. Fuck you. Ask questions here, read here, learn here, screw those guys at the shop, all they do is read the label and repeat it to you in a car salesman pitch. My take on nutes...well still experimenting. In aeroponics Connoseiur all the way, no comparison. In all other mediums, honestly GH will do you just fine. Of course you can add other things from other lines that wet your palette, but for a base it doesn't get any better. Hopefully this helps you out my friend. Just trying to save someone else the headaches I've been through. Every single example is what happened to me my first year. Not including forgetting I left the R/O on overnight and coming down to about 50 gallons on the floor with extension cords laying right in the middle. Like I said shit will happen, it's inevitable, anybody telling you any different doesn't know his head from his anus.

 

[inreplyavalon]

I just gave you 3 years worth of experience and advice in 5 minutes, be happy.

Now thats generous. For real that is it in a nutshell. Once its set up thats when it starts getting challenging! Good luck, andbe assured it will be a while before it is go-away automated.

 

[mister420green]

Sorry to butt in again, but just thought of the most important thing you're going to need. Knowledge. Know your deficiencies going into this, I didn't and tried to be superman...ha, what an idiot I was. Also, don't go asking questions to anybody but here. You're about to start a business that you really don't want people on a personal level to know what you're doing. There's also a shitload of rules to follow when you get to your final location on how to interact with neighbors, postman, gas or electric meter readers, ups driver, etc... If you don't have this shit planned my friend, you will be in for a rude awakening. I've already offered up a lot but some of this has to be common sense and strategy. Learn to play chess.

 

[Pittsburgh Kush]

Wish I found this thread when I started lerking around these threads a few months ago. Let me see if I can add my 2 cents..... I would go with the ebb and flow tables, when it comes to your grow "container" what would be the best solution, 5-gal buckets vs. some square pots like Yamaha1 has. Go with General Hydroponic nutrients, best for hydro imo, atleast for someone just starting out. The 8 600w's are the best for you situation, make sure that they come enclosed(with plexi-glass protecting the bulbs, it will increase your airflow, and you should eventually use co2, so this is a must. Get the biggest intake and exhuast fans possible for your lights, and mayby look into a reflector that has 8'' ducts, would help with heat. Like I said co2 should be included in your setup, I would go crazy when it comes to general room exhuast, ducting as large as possible(12'' or 15'') with a big ass carbon scrubber on the end, and the biggest exhust fan you can buy that doesn't soud like a nascar engine. I would try to ease into the automated stuff, don't do to much with it at first, get your system dailed in, then add one piece of automation at a time, ease into it or your just going to end up fucking yourself. I would go with a combination of L.S.T and topping or a S.C.R.O.G, look into booth of those(USE THE ADVANCED SEARCH BUTTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's the most helpful tool in a forum, almost any question that you have, someone else has been there and there is already a thread about it with all your answers in it) Learn the basics of wiring, do a professional job, use a 240 line get some decent amps going. Make sure to place your ballasts remotely(outside the grow room), they are a big source of heat, that can be easily eliminated, get the biggest freekin rez you can get, this will allow you to be away from the grow for longer amounts of time once you get it dailed in. If your really have unlimited cash, and you grow op is in a basement, have a drain put in(I would do it myself) that way any flooding that may occur is a non issue, paint the floor with a concrete water seelent, Mylar on the walls and ceiling, large ac unit, this 9 x 13 area is strictly for flower right? I hope so, because all of our plans would be extremely different if not..... Whats the area of the veg/clone/mum room look like, we can get into that once more information is presented.

THE MOST IMPORTANT THINKG IS THAT YOU DO YOUR REASEARCH, I DECIDED THAT I WANTED TO GORW A MONTH AGO, AND HAVE BEEN READING EVER SINCE, IM ONLY IN THE AQUIRING/BUILDING STAGE OF MY GROW AND IT'S BEEN A MONTH, TAKE YOUR TIME, IT'S GOING TO BE A WHILE BEFORE YOU SEE SOME PLANTS.

GROW ROOMS COME AND GO, KNOWLEDGE IS FOREVER. o shit, that was pretty deep, I know I'm faded, but that wasn't that some real shit right there. Anyway, do your homework, don't rush things, and you should barely be ok.

Hope this helped, In less then a month, I have become quite knowledgable, you can to. I am still in essence a noob, so if I said something completly stupid, call me out on it, its still a learning process for me, and will be for years to come. Happy growing, I will have more input when im not this fucking high.

thats all I can really think of now, I know a lot of it was alrady said, but this is how I would do it(will be doing it eventually), a large scale grow op.