So, something interesting happens to weed after it’s legal

[geneva_sativa]

Last I looked at the retail stores the prices were 90 to 100 dollars for a 1/4 ounce. That is after they closed all of the medical dispensaries and farmers markets. Now the average joe can't get into the recreational side because you have to pay big bucks to play. Hundreds of thousands of dollars for the licenses.

yeah, I dunno wtf people talking about price drop. . . almost any idiot could of paid $ 150 ounce for organic kind in WA before rec laws passed

maybe they keep repeating long enough they believe it. . . or they were the small percent that couldn't score at 150 ounce or cheaper

 

[farmerlion]

GastroGrower, I agree not everyone can do it on their own. I didn't mean to go on a rant either. Thirty five years ago when I smoked my first joint. It was with friends enjoying the experience. I giggled for ten years. I have friends that traveled to Colorado. Looked for the best smoke available and came back very disappointed. I have family in Washington State. A couple of them smoke and their opinions of most smoke is it's dismal. I feel for all of you.
Peace

 

[PeterGreen]

Many of the reasons why I left the state ^ also $300,000 for a starter home in Seattle

GO DAWGS

 

[GastroGrower]

Yeah the housing market here is just dumb. Well cost of everything is dumb. I chose WA because I had a job lined up and at the time they had a medical system. Not really anything other than the beautiful nature keeping me here now. Oh also having to pay rent and bills. That too.

I think like any other setback in this realm, you will see those who need to find other options doing so, whether it aligns with the regulations in place or not.

 

[shaggyballs]

bump for more discussion.

 

[cyat]

Most important thread on icmag, and an overwhelming amount of intelligent posts by everyone. Shaggy thanks for bumping this one. Regulated not legalized, very well said. I'm overwhelmed right now and will be back with more thoughts. The one good thing that's coming out of the new laws here in California is the pardons, but I'm sure they will figure out how to fill the vacated prison cells with "regulation violators." Wholesale prices have been dropping here by $400 a yr per lb., when retail is reduced to Marlborough weed and bar peanuts people will ball, but wait we can still do the underground thing , and will be persecuted for that same as usual.

 

[Donn]

I have no medical use, and I'm not a grower. People in those two categories have issues with the Washington setup, abundantly discussed above and I have nothing to add there.

For the "recreational" consumer, it could hardly be better. There's a lot of choice, from a long list of growers all over the state. Some of them indoors, some outdoors. Some big, some small - I understand my favorite farm was talking about working 200 plants last year, that's small, right? I can walk to a couple retailers that carry "flowers" from my favorite farms, and when I get there, I can be reasonably confident that the stuff on the shelves is exactly as labeled.

The market is extremely competitive and I don't doubt some of the farms who have been doing a great job, have washed out anyway, because as in any area of commerce, it isn't as much about delivering good product as we might wish. That said, the competition is waged in the market - to survive, growers need to get their stuff flying off the shelves, and it has to be good to make that happen. On the down side, i think the economics tend to push towards quick work - fast maturing strains, faster drying times, etc. As with any commercial system.

I have hoped we (in my state) would be doing more conscious thinking about where cannabis fits in with popular culture. I mean, like we have millennia experience with ethanol, which tends to diverge into an interesting culinary track, and an psychic anesthetic track that's also interesting if you think about anesthesia vs. post-industrial exploitation, for example. Cannabis is not much like alcohol in any way and previous experience with it has been underground and/or medical, so lots to think about - and not much time, because it will be the domain of big pharma & RJ Reynolds real soon, and if we're going to come up with anything good, our window starts to close at that point.

 

[farmerlion]

Here in North Dakota our legislators have sought out the expertise of those who cripple cannabis reform measures. We have strong oilfield and agriculture industry here. They are content with that. Lets not grow our economy even stronger and diverse. We will have two grow operations and eight dispensaries in the state. It's $100,000 for a grow license and $5,000 for the application for the license. The state has not implemented any decriminalization efforts in the house or senate. Our state representatives are terrified of the words (marijuana and cannabis). With such high initial investments to even start a grow operation. No doubt we will only be getting auto flowering Indica's and the like. To ensure a quicker return on the $100,000 per year license. The Doctors here aren't prescribing MMJ for any patients that qualify under Measure #5. The home grow option for patients living greater than 40 miles from a dispensary was also deleted from the final revision. I see recreational cannabis being passed before we ever see anything happening on the medical horizon. The original license price was to be $25,000. My investor had another $250,000 available for a greenhouse. My choice of a grow facility. Now I wait, with the best CBD genetics available to me. A multitude of sativa dominant genetics for customers. As Gypsy Nirvana stated earlier, you will have low end buyers and high end buyers. When the door opens to the will of the people. This state will be blessed. Until that time my search for the best and rarest genetics continues. Peace

 

[GastroGrower]

Damn. Clearly seems like they are trying to ruin the system before it can even prove itself out, so they can then point to it as an excuse not to pursue it. Seems like it would be hard to make it viable with the population in North Dakota too.

 

[budbasket]

I said this years ago, but what's going to happen when the Midwest and southern states legalize? 10,000 acre farms are small to average. The only smokable plant we grow currently and can compare the prices of cannabis to is tobacco.

Last time I checked, it was is selling for around $1.97/lb. If you can even find it at those weights, bushel or ton price would be more appropriate. So let's say pot can be worth double what tobacco is worth...that's less than $4/lb.

Even though states are legalizing; on a national scale the price is still being artificially inflated.

 

[farmerlion]

Gastrointestinal Grower, There is about 800,000 people in the state. 1 in 10 smoke cannabis. From what I've understood. I have no desire to be the biggest grower unless I'm still able to be the best grower. I don't see having that kind of experienced help here. Peace

 

[Earlmarne]

As a teenager I could find straight killer bud pretty well anywhere.
Just recently started smoking again to attempt to move away from narcotics for medical issues.
Stopped into a local store and got a gram or 2 of a handful of strains. Got home and it all smelled and tasted like the beasters that we all tried to get rich off 15 years ago.
Went n got my med card to handle my own medicine.
This shit in WA now reminds me of those days. Fucking knuckle heads driving the prices down trying to get their foot in the door. Hopefully all reaches equilibrium eventually .

 

[farmerlion]

Ok, I re evaluated my opinions and reasons behind them. (quality & Preference) In post #7 I was a total hater of auto flowering plants. So I did some research and have learned a few things. While some are just chasing the hype about AUTOs being the newer thing on the market. There has been some serious breeding efforts taking place and some very good plants being produced. So this season I'm making about half my grow semi auto flowering and auto flowering strains. There is some real advantages about plants starting to flower after 4 or 5 weeks of growth. I grow in 35 and 45 gallon grow bags. This is also very helpful for autos to have better growth rates. My kiss of death reference was regarding landrace strains and the pollution of genetics. I still don't want to see that in any case. For the people of this state to be able to grow their own outside here in North Dakota. They will need semi or full auto flowering genetics.

So I was faced with the question. Do I really want to just grow cannabis or help people who need it? So as I stated I'm running several semi and autos this season. I will do a full open pollination of these genetics for a seed run. I will further test and refine so I have quality seeds to donate to those that need it. Live and learn. Peace

 

[therevverend]

I think it might be a typo but you said there was 800k people in the state. There's 7.5 million people in Washington state. That comes out to around 800k cannabis users. That might be what you meant. This state has changed so much, not too long ago it was 3.5 mil. I liked it a lot better then.

 

[therevverend]

My take on autos is that they will always be a niche market. Almost every grower uses clones. Autos are impossible to clone. Which means making seeds every crop. Something most commercial guys don't mess with.
Yield is extremely variable and usually quite small. The genetics are unreliable because of the low THC Ruderalis genes. You could have anywhere from high THC to low THC, usually somewhere in the middle.
Washington summers are drier then they used to be. There's no longer a need for strains like '90 day wonder'. Medical grows all have plant counts which means growers are choosing the biggest yields possible. Once again Autos fall short.
All the trends are going against Autos right now. A lot of things would have to change for them to come into demand again. During prohibition there was quite a bit more interest.

 

[frostqueen]

Producers with deep pockets push the price down undercutting the smaller guys, driving them out of business. Whoever can afford the biggest losses wins.

This is Oregon's story. Pass laws that allow any out of state asshole with big money to come right in and set up massive grow warehouses, driving small farmers out of business simply due to being able to outlast them. Take the strains that small growers have spent the last 20 years developing and make them your product.

It's happening everywhere. Drive the wholesale/grower prices into the ground, but then run a dispensary and gouge customers for top dollar there to cover production cost losses. And the local customers who formerly said 'support your local farmer!' don't: instead they drop their local farmer like a bad date and go directly to the big dispensary and pay those big prices, because wow, look at all of these options.

Can't get your 100 pounds a week warehouse crop to sell to a dispensary? Ship it back east and sell for similarly bargain basement prices, thus ruining any small farmer black market options, too. Yay!

End of an era. I am thrilled that it is legal and people aren't in jail: that is the most important thing to me. But as a small farmer and breeder, it looks as if this gig is over for me now. I can't say that I am surprised, but I sure am disappointed.

 

[purplepassion]

National Growers Union needed. Maine’s being messed with by all the people who can’t make it out west. They are learning real quick it’s even harder to make it here. I see small vertically integrated farms as the only way for survival, and that’s if your state doesn’t team up with big money first.

 

[Jellyfish]

This is Oregon's story. Pass laws that allow any out of state asshole with big money to come right in and set up massive grow warehouses, driving small farmers out of business simply due to being able to outlast them. Take the strains that small growers have spent the last 20 years developing and make them your product.

It's happening everywhere. Drive the wholesale/grower prices into the ground, but then run a dispensary and gouge customers for top dollar there to cover production cost losses. And the local customers who formerly said 'support your local farmer!' don't: instead they drop their local farmer like a bad date and go directly to the big dispensary and pay those big prices, because wow, look at all of these options.

Can't get your 100 pounds a week warehouse crop to sell to a dispensary? Ship it back east and sell for similarly bargain basement prices, thus ruining any small farmer black market options, too. Yay!

End of an era. I am thrilled that it is legal and people aren't in jail: that is the most important thing to me. But as a small farmer and breeder, it looks as if this gig is over for me now. I can't say that I am surprised, but I sure am disappointed.

It's not that different, really, than when Wal-Marts started popping up every fifty miles or so, and killed all the small towns. Most town squares are dead now, and all the commerce is out by the interstate.

Nobody cared about quality then, and Made In USA didn't mean shit. Same shit, different day.

 

[frostqueen]

Here's another interesting aspect: the effect upon garden/grow stores. I recently talked with a local grow store owner (he has maybe 4 retail locations total). He told me that their business is about HALF what it was before full legalization in Oregon. This really surprised me. He attributed this drop to the fact that commercial producers go directly to manufacturers for their supplies, and with small growers now having or choosing to quit growing, their business was taking a serious hit from it. I would guess that online sales are having quite an impact on storefronts, too. Amazon is pretty damned convenient, and you can get anything on there. I just saw bubble bags... on Amazon. It's surreal.

 

[farmerlion]

Revere , I was talking about my state of North Dakota has 800,000 people. I have family in Spokane so I try to keep up with what's going on through here. Sorry for the confusion.

FrostQueen, very insightful posts. ND. doesn't have anything implemented yet and they chose to screw it up before they even got started.
Peace