cosmiccowboy
Member
somebody told me that small pieces of wood would eat up the nitrogen,or somethin to that effect..think it was microbeman...
should peat be sifted?
- Thread starter cosmiccowboy
- Start date
J
JackTheGrower
let see.. Bacteria bind the nitrogen and then they die or are eaten and the nitrogen becomes available..
Let see.. A simple link
My take on wood or peat is it's carbonous ( a brown ) so in an active soil, like organic soil is, I try to feed nitrogenous and carbonous materials ( greens and browns) so that the soil food web works in a container like mine.
So yes wood is a brown and peat is a brown.. Mostly I would screen peat to achieve a uniform consistency. Getting the lumps out and such.. I do tend to toss bits of wood when I want a uniform consistancy.
I hope I got that correct..
Jack
Let see.. A simple link
My take on wood or peat is it's carbonous ( a brown ) so in an active soil, like organic soil is, I try to feed nitrogenous and carbonous materials ( greens and browns) so that the soil food web works in a container like mine.
So yes wood is a brown and peat is a brown.. Mostly I would screen peat to achieve a uniform consistency. Getting the lumps out and such.. I do tend to toss bits of wood when I want a uniform consistancy.
I hope I got that correct..
Jack
MickTheBrag
Active member
yea sift your whole soil mix man. 
peace...............\m/
peace...............\m/
You don't want actively decomposing stuff green or brown in an active container or garden bed, because it will rob n from the soil. Peat is pretty stable stuff compared to say sawdust or broccoli. A few wood chips don't hurt anything but enough of them will slow growth.
That's why manures should be top dressed, and sawdust can't replace peat.
That's why manures should be top dressed, and sawdust can't replace peat.
cosmiccowboy
Member
thanks fellers..was tryin to get out of siftin all that. hehehe..
J
JackTheGrower
That doesn't make sense MaryJohn..
Sure nitrogen can be bound but we feed fish emulation, guano and other nitrogenous materials and carbonous materials continue towards humus.
My soil is always active in it's biological processing of greens and browns.
However, i understand Ceder is bad for use with Cannabis.
Jack
B
Blue Dot
This is a can of worms.
premiere promix has different sized sift's to acheive a particular water to oxygen ratio.
Wood chips, as I understand, tend to lower the pH, quite a bit in some instances.
premiere promix has different sized sift's to acheive a particular water to oxygen ratio.
Wood chips, as I understand, tend to lower the pH, quite a bit in some instances.
J
JackTheGrower
So Dolomite may not address the chemical changes of raw wood. Blue Dot would Oyster Shell do?
I think both myself and MaryJohn use oyster shell; I forget MaryJohn.
I do compost any new wood first myself except feline pine cat litter which i top dress with once in a blue moon.
no you dont need to sift it...too much effort for what results you get. which imo would be a soggy prone mix.
as for the "stealing nitrogen". that would easily happen with fresh wood chips or any fresh high carbon material, but not so much with the wood chips from ancient peat bogs.
as for the "stealing nitrogen". that would easily happen with fresh wood chips or any fresh high carbon material, but not so much with the wood chips from ancient peat bogs.
J
JackTheGrower
Look.. Soil Tilth is an important factor.. I'm not saying you have to screen all your peat.. Who pinned that tail on this donkey?
As for nitrogen robbing Dude I went fallow for 13 months I know what Zero is!
IT's like a charging a battery while you need to use the power.. Yes you can charge at a high rate but at some point you have a hella lot of current..
Nitrogen is like that in soil from my experience..
So the thing is.. Oh fuG it wait for the book...
Hmm that was misleading sorry Jack. You are not the donkey.
Nonetheless, the reason we use peat is that it decomposes so slowly, thus avoiding competition between plant and microherd. Commonly referred to as nitrogen robbing Agreed?
Micronizing speeds up the process, but too much micronized material in active decomp would be a disaster. As for fertilizers, they are chosen for or applied in ways that avoid competition with the plant. Kelp, for instance, can be mixed straight in because it takes so little food to break down. Fish hydrolysate same deal. But if you want to use a raw fish Indian style it must be buried in a mound away from the roots. Bokashi pickles same deal - keep it away from the roots.
Composting was invented to solve this problem.
Where is the only spot in. Container away from the roots? On top.
Nonetheless, the reason we use peat is that it decomposes so slowly, thus avoiding competition between plant and microherd. Commonly referred to as nitrogen robbing Agreed?
Micronizing speeds up the process, but too much micronized material in active decomp would be a disaster. As for fertilizers, they are chosen for or applied in ways that avoid competition with the plant. Kelp, for instance, can be mixed straight in because it takes so little food to break down. Fish hydrolysate same deal. But if you want to use a raw fish Indian style it must be buried in a mound away from the roots. Bokashi pickles same deal - keep it away from the roots.
Composting was invented to solve this problem.
Where is the only spot in. Container away from the roots? On top.
cosmiccowboy
Member
that makes a lot of sense..guess that's why compost needs to be old?...i would have never dreamed growin a fkn weed would be like this,but every little thing i learn,inspires the hell out of me...plan on mixin all ingredients today for lc's mix #1 and recipe #1 together......it's all good..
Exactly what Jay said. BTW sphagnum peat from Canada is usually loaded with beneficial microbe cysts, eggs and spores.
nitrogen "robbing" also known as nitrogen drawdown and a few other fancy names will really only happen when high carbon materials are added(i.e sawdust, dry leaves, fresh wood chips) because they need N to reach the C/N(carbon / nitrogen) ratio needed to decompose. adding things like guano for example which has a much better C/N ratio will not steal nitrogen from the soil, its doesn't need any to decompose, it already has.
age and compost have nothing to do with each other, it just needs to be finished. when compost is done depends on 1. method used 2. materials used 3. environment. a compost pile at 30 degrees is not going to finish as fast as one at 90 degrees. the materials used also have a big influence, each and every thing you add to the compost has a C/N (Carbon/nitrogen) ratio, here is a decent link describing the process.
http://www.composting101.com/c-n-ratio.html
too much carbon = why we have nitrogen "robbing"
take a look at nature, and observe what ratio on c:n is mixed in the soil. None. Nature does not till. Things die, the roots decay below, and the rest - all that nitrogen rich material - decays away from the roots.
The relevant amount of carbon is not relative to N in decomposing organic matter in a limited space, it is cumulative. Grass clipping are not pure N, for instance. All life forms we know of are carbon based. Even manure is more carbon componds than anything. That's why fresh grass mixed into your soil is not going to work unless you wait for it to compost. Thus I top dress grass clippings.
So merely keeping a balance is not enough. Any active decomp will be self defeating, including manures. Top dress that guano, and age your mulch. You probably already do...
Someone may point out that worms turn the soil, but that is not a given. Earthworms were brought here b Europeans. Before that, our coastal forests were completely different. Imagine how big those leaf drifts must have been.
Maybe that's why the natives did not til?
In this thread I sense confusion created by the breaks we make in the food soil web as container or standard garden bed users. The theory is right in a sense, but fails to account for the tecnology we use. If you want to feed the soil directly, you need to look into some no dig methods and it will lead to understanding of what we do different when we compost and till.
The relevant amount of carbon is not relative to N in decomposing organic matter in a limited space, it is cumulative. Grass clipping are not pure N, for instance. All life forms we know of are carbon based. Even manure is more carbon componds than anything. That's why fresh grass mixed into your soil is not going to work unless you wait for it to compost. Thus I top dress grass clippings.
So merely keeping a balance is not enough. Any active decomp will be self defeating, including manures. Top dress that guano, and age your mulch. You probably already do...
Someone may point out that worms turn the soil, but that is not a given. Earthworms were brought here b Europeans. Before that, our coastal forests were completely different. Imagine how big those leaf drifts must have been.
Maybe that's why the natives did not til?
In this thread I sense confusion created by the breaks we make in the food soil web as container or standard garden bed users. The theory is right in a sense, but fails to account for the tecnology we use. If you want to feed the soil directly, you need to look into some no dig methods and it will lead to understanding of what we do different when we compost and till.
Closer.... (IMO).
I would tend to mix no non-composted materials into the soil; rather top dress [excluded; minor amounts of kelp, alfalfa, etc]. I have no experience with guano (avoided on purpose) but unless it states that it is composted I would only use it topdressed. IMO if you see big chunks of wood or manure in compost, it is not finished because those chunks will continue to degrade in your soil. [small pieces of plant debri/wood in sphagnum peat is different because it is stable] This degradation is done by fungi, bacteria & archaea. The preferred fuel of many bacterial/archaeal [sic] species is N and therefore if they are expending their energy to degrading these materials, they can end up in competition with the plant for the available N. So rather than feeding your plant, the microbes can end up starving your plant. To my understanding (simplified) this is what a nitrogen lock-up is.
cosmiccowboy
Member
fellers. i've got alfalfa meal and blood meal for nitrogen in soil mix..should i use both or just one?....heres what i've got..10 gallon peat+ 5 gallon compost and manure already mixed......intend to add 30 tbsp dolomite lime,30 tbsp bone meal,15 tbsp kelp meal..nitrogen will be either blood or alfalfa meal...what do ye think?...i've got all this stuff out in the yard and puttin it in a wheelbarrow with no wheel..hehehe......aint had so much fun since the hogs ate my little sister..
