Should Machine Rooted Clones be Dipped?

[donb5]

There is the wish to "school" others to feel important
And there is the desire to share something wonderful you believe you are onto..that could be of help.

At times things that turn out to be true cause disbelief or amazement. Sometimes unsound ideas cause much wasted time.

I know I'd love to root cuttings faster but my time is usually too valuable to take risks with wasting it.

Thanks for the possibly revolutionary info as well as the skepticism.

 

[Nokturnal]

So whats the general consensus, nutrients/additives in res will clone faster then nothing?

 

[Crooked8]

Bleach in the cloner snype? Ive always been told (by reps at ezcloner) even any residual bleach from cleaning the unit can be bad news. 6 drops is very líttle, but are we sure thats why you were getting your results? Those roots look great dont get me wrong. I just spend a lot of time running several rounds of clean water through the cloner after using bleach. I dont use any nutes in my cloner and i get nearly 100% success. Takes about two weeks and every cut has dangling roots. I always score them and my pump is on 24/7. I think there are many ways to do this well. There is no "perfect" way. I always double and sometimes triple each collar too. Btw, snype, imo i think you could have started your own thread on the subject vs coming in to smurphs and trying to say whats what. Not trying to argue i just think it was kinda like a "look at MY results and HOW I DO IT and MY BIG BALLS" vibe and its great info just delivered poorly.

 

[Snype]

Bleach in the cloner snype? Ive always been told (by reps at ezcloner) even any residual bleach from cleaning the unit can be bad news. 6 drops is very líttle, but are we sure thats why you were getting your results?

EZ Clone sells a product called Clear Rez that they suggest to use every 3 days or so. It is just like bleach by the way. And 6 drops of Bleach is not like all the residual bleach that's left behind when cleaning the cloner. I don't get these results by just using bleach and my results come from all of my steps. I will start a side by side comparison with 2 separate EZ Cloner 60's in a couple of weeks and start my own thread.

And by the way, this is a side by side comparison for the community and if there are issues that I see with that I'm going to say something about it. It's not the same as someone's individual grow log. Just look at the title of this thread, it's deceiving to the public. If you read the beginning of this thread, the starter of the thread didn't see the problem of using half the EZ cloner with dipped cuts and the other half not dipped. It's obvious that there's no way to do a side by side comparison like this because all that it takes is a little bit of the gel or powder to have an effect on the whole batch of clones in the cloner. It's the title of the thread that got me in here in the first place and I had to say something. I could have said a lot more but I kept my mouth shut.

 

[SooperSmurph]

I disagree, Snype, as do most people, if you'd like to perform your own side by side, have at it, i'm sure someone smug will be along to discount everything you say and do as well.

 

[Crooked8]

Not trying to be mr mediator here but snype is a good source of info as well as smurph. Ive learned this from both first hand. Im eager to see future results from both. Snype, i can see how the public could be admitted to chime in on such a subject. I just felt you were "getting at" smurph so to speak. Not understanding why the thread exists? Come on....

 

[sunset limited]

neither of you is going to let the other one get the last word, so why not just quit bickering and get back on topic?

 

[Snype]

neither of you is going to let the other one get the last word, so why not just quit bickering and get back on topic?

That was 2 days ago. LOL! The last word was already said days ago.

 

[OvergrowDaWorld]

Scraping bark off the stem creates different roots than without scoring. This is what Snype I think doesnt understand or hasnt learned yet.
Scraped stems create fuzzy roots with hairs for oxygen intake and not scoring creates noodle type roots that are for feeding.
Thats why we scrape 2 sides off the stem before dipping into clonex gel....for 2 dif root sytems....not just 1 kind.
Same thing happens when you top a plant. It grows a secondary root system.

 

[Crooked8]

Scraping bark off the stem creates different roots than without scoring. This is what Snype I think doesnt understand or hasnt learned yet.
Scraped stems create fuzzy roots with hairs for oxygen intake and not scoring creates noodle type roots that are for feeding.
Thats why we scrape 2 sides off the stem before dipping into clonex gel....for 2 dif root sytems....not just 1 kind.
Same thing happens when you top a plant. It grows a secondary root system.

Secondary and tertiary roots do not form from scoring. Nor does topping cause a "secondary root system". Did you mean topping stresses the plant causing it to put out secondaries? I was always under the impression that its medium and fertilizer based. Hydro plants in dwc do less forming of secondaries because the water is the medium and they grow with the movement of the water. In soil and rockwool the roots form around the medium thus the need for more secondary and tertiary rooting. Plants always grow secondary and tertiary roots regardless to some extent.

 

[DinosaurCocks]

machine rooted clones? by who's definition is a bubble cloner a machine? by that reasoning fishtanks are fish machines...machine grown angelfish? not an actual thing...the fish grows itself, there is no machine forcing your beta fish to grow...there is also no machine forcing your plant to root, the plant roots itself so it is not "machine rooted"...

sure it's just dumb terminology, but it's much more correct to say "should clones from bubble cloners be dipped... and the answer is already out there, just email olivia's...cloning gel dissolves off the stems quickly, and the dissolved gel isn't strong enough to make a big difference...thats why most of the big cloning gel producers make a liquid additive, SPECIFICALLY FOR NON-SUBSTRATE BASED CLONING! if you use a substrate like rockwool, rootriots, jiffy plugs or potting soil you use the gel, if you use a bubble cloner gel isn't effective so you use the liquid... no side by side necessary...the cloning companies have all no doubt done it much more scientifically on a much larger scale before they started developing a bubble cloner based liquid cloning formula...

 

[SooperSmurph]

... A "bubble cloner" isn't really a clone machine, it's a large aerated cup of water. I guess maybe if you hyper aerated the res and it was bubbling like a pot on the stove on high...

Clone "machines" usually involve a sprayer system most people would consider aeroponic.

Point being, a bubble cloner is not a cloning machine because it does not generate spray / mist, at least imo.

Anyway, all moot, the point of the side by side was to test suggestions from helpful users in the [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]3 Way Clone Machine Side by Side.
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[OvergrowDaWorld]

Hey SooperSmurph...No need to get into devisive discussions with anyone about anything.
It is useless and does more harm to the readers who read it, and underminds the hard work you just did to journal this experiment.
Didnt take too long for me to learn this on here. People are at different learning levels than others... and this side x side speaks for itself.
All you can do is put the info out there for whomever is smart and humble enough to use it wisely, and do all the study work to find out what the truth is themselves.
You can lead a horse to water but you cant make em drink.
For instance.....I pointed out that topping a plant creates a secondary rootzone. I also pointed out that some roots are for oxygen intake and some roots are for feeding. If Crooked8 doesnt do the research himself and find out if what I say is true or not, thats on him. If he does the resaerch and finds something to add to this discussion that I didnot know then oits up to me to be humble enough to do the research myself to find out if what he says is true...then apply it to my knowledge base and growing technique.

 

[SooperSmurph]

I wholeheartedly agree, side by side trials speak for themselves, anyone who missed the input period on this trial can chime in with input for my next trial, or they can do their own.

As most of you who follow these threads know by now, I leave the first post open ended for about a week while people chime in with ideas for the side by side, if during that time you were unable to show us why your inputs were needed, I apologize.

 

[Crooked8]

A secondary root system? I looked into it. It makes no sense. You meant secondary roots. I explained how secondary and tertiary roots are formed. If overgrowDAworld wants to replace words like "the" with "da" and then come around bringing newbie knowledge to the table he can do that. I know da knowledge dat nobody knows lol. Please.......btw all roots are used for oxygen and feed purposes. Please give me a link that proves otherwise. If you really think scoring makes a different type of root system that is meant more for oxygen than for uptaking nutrients or vice versa i want proof of that too. Dont tell me to do research on info you just spit out with no citing any credible info. Btw its "undermine" not "undermind".

 

[Snype]

A secondary root system? I looked into it. It makes no sense. You meant secondary roots. I explained how secondary and tertiary roots are formed. If overgrowDAworld wants to replace words like "the" with "da" and then come around bringing newbie knowledge to the table he can do that. I know da knowledge dat nobody knows lol. Please.......btw all roots are used for oxygen and feed purposes. Please give me a link that proves otherwise. If you really think scoring makes a different type of root system that is meant more for oxygen than for uptaking nutrients or vice versa i want proof of that too. Dont tell me to do research on info you just spit out with no citing any credible info. Btw its "undermine" not "undermind".

I would love to see some of the proof too because this talk is pretty crazy.

 

[Crooked8]

I tried searching specifically for information on root systems and if individual roots have certain responsibilities. They can in some plants. All roots, however, are meant for oxygen, water and nutrient uptake. I tried investigating this "secondary root system", again, all i could come up with was secondary rooting. A simple google search of "secondary root system" will show that there are primary(tap roots), secondaries and tertiary roots. There are also specialed roots in other plants. The closest thing i could come up with for "roots meant for oxygen only" are roots that go above ground and have extra pores for gas exchange. They are called "aeration roots". They do still uptake nutrients. These types of roots are found in avicennia and sonneratia. Both plants are wooded(hardwoods) and aren't vascular plants like cannabis. Cannabis does not have aeration roots. when cannabis roots grow above ground, they display hydrotropism and grow directly towards where the most moisture is. Fine roots(tertiary roots) are more specifically for water and nutrient uptake. There are no roots meant strictly for oxygen uptake.....especially in cannabis, especially inside of a cloner where roots cant even come up through the surface. All roots uptake all three essential things for life, water, food and gasses. Smurph whats up on a side by side of scored vs not scored?

 

[Snype]

I dare you to find any scoring on my cutting. I don't score or do anything of the like. I simply just take my cutting at a 45 degree angle. This cut was infected with Cyanobacteria and I treated it with Erythromycin and the roots still came out the same way as usual with no scoring:

 

[SooperSmurph]

When you have a series of roots growing, perfectly arranged in a vertical line with no gaps between them to represent internodal stem, this is usually the result of the outer bark of the clone being gently scraped or "peeled" away, especially if a section of it was pulled away from the top of the scraped cutting to the bottom, this is what I was referring to.

Not sure why the new guy is attacking Crooked, one of the most helpful users in this thread, but then again i'm not sure why a lot of people do things.

 

[OvergrowDaWorld]

Im not attacking anyone. Sorry guys. Didnt mean to come off like that if I did. I thought I read that in a grow bible...maybe Jorge's?
I thought the fine white hairs served to feed the main roots through oxygen and mineral uptake.
Im wrong about the roots functions, thanks for correcting me Crooked8 and Snype.
I appreciate the info you put up. I was wrong. I guess its been along time since I read into that grow bible. I must have misunderstood about the function of furry roots vs noodle roots.
I do feel better having 2 different types of roots on my clones though. Whether it makes a difference or not. Thanx again for all the helpfull info.
Im that much closer to being a better gardener.