Selfing... how far is too far?

[clearheaded]

G `day CH

Some ganja cultures did pull males for seedless .
But also had seed makers and plant sexers .
Hash cultures use male / female / herm doesn`t matter .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

sorry still no exactly sure what your total point was or just sharing some extra info? all good just curious Thanks!

This thread def has some good info coming out! glad science is helping explain my gut feeling from the thought expirement of tropical var selfing and not disappearing off the earth(or at very least that detrimental trait of intersex!).

peace

 

[MJPassion]

To be fair, your math is presented in a misleading way.

You can only lose 50% of the S0 parent’s alleles, at the very most. Every locus must have one or the other parental allele at every Sn. Lots of loci, although far from a majority, will already be homozygous in the parent, so 50% is really the limit, not the norm.

You can theoretically eliminate (virtually) 100% of heterozygosity, but, that ain’t genes or ‘genetic code’.

Could you expand on what you are saying, please?

Any time DNA is split then recombined 50% of the total information is lost... every time... it matters not whether plant or animal. Unless ploidy is changed 50% of all the genetic code is lost to the nether world.

And as mentioned previously... nobody is working with stabilized cultivars and nobody is testing for hetero/homo-zygosity for any given traits.

 

[zif]

Could you expand on what you are saying, please?

Any time DNA is split then recombined 50% of the total information is lost... every time... it matters not whether plant or animal. Unless ploidy is changed 50% of all the genetic code is lost to the nether world.

And as mentioned previously... nobody is working with stabilized cultivars and nobody is testing for hetero/homo-zygosity for any given traits.

Think about just one locus first.

Imagine S0 (the original clone) has genotype Aa.

In meiosis, half of the gametes will get the A allele, while the other half get a.

When you self the plant, these gametes recombine to produce seeds with genotype AA, Aa, aA, or aa.

So the S1 generation will have 50% as much heterozygosity, new homozygosity, and *no loss* of genes or genetic code.

Self either AA or aa plants, and the S2 will definitely be correspondingly AA or aa. You just can’t lose more than one allele per locus.

Self a heterozygote, and the S2 will remain exactly like the S1 at that locus.

Because homozygosity ‘locks itself in’, selfing always leads to greater homozygosity. But everywhere in the genome, the ‘loss’ is limited to 1/2 of the original S0 clone’s genes.

To really get mind-blown, compare to doubled haploids, which can be thought of as infinitely selfed lines.

Also, keep in mind that preserving genes in selfing is still done simply by saving lots of seeds at each generation. For example, recombine different S2s that feature your selected genotype, and you will restore the background heterozygosity that inbreeding has lost!

 

[Emperortaima]

There would be no reason to keep selfing a plant.

If we can agree that selfing, is polinating it with it's own pollen. You will get a "copy" of itself, no need to do that more then once.

Normaly you get a set of genes from the female and a set of genes from the male, when selfing you basicly splice two of the female gene set's together. The offspring will only carry the genes it got from the selfed plant, no matter how many times you do this, there will alwasy only be the 1 set of genes from the original mom.


IBL is not optained with selfing, it's inbread crossing bro and sisters for many generations. To make a uniform genepool, but there will always be minor differences.

Not necessarily true my friend may be for some lines but honestly there will be other specimens in the s-1 seed and I will further my statement once I commence the Blue Cookieberry Crunch S-1 project so I can preserve the line is seed in case I incompetently fuck up and lose it. Cross my fingers I get a similar plant to the mom I hold plan on seeing if other phenotypes

 

[JetLife175]

There’s a lot of reasons to keep selfing a plant, it’s called phenotypic expression. If you think that selfing a plant results in an exact copy of itself I would say you don’t have much experience with growing selfed seed.

 

[Elmer Bud]

There’s a lot of reasons to keep selfing a plant, it’s called phenotypic expression. If you think that selfing a plant results in an exact copy of itself I would say you don’t have much experience with growing selfed seed.

G `day Jet

K so Trollin Tom from Temecula `s theory was ;
Start with s1s select and find 5 prospects . Self each one , then select again and self again .

Then back cross to the original mother restoring the vigor and BOOM - female IBL .

Our mutual friend in Colorado has taught me a lot re fems . He likes them book learnins

Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[JetLife175]

G `day Jet

K so Trollin Tom from Temecula `s theory was ;
Start with s1s select and find 5 prospects . Self each one , then select again and self again .

Then back cross to the original mother restoring the vigor and BOOM - female IBL .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

Elmer my old pal! I definitely see the logic in his theory as I’ve been working with selfed seed made on my own or my close circle of friends. I don’t see the problem with growing properly made selfed seed and breeding with it. I should reverse some of these s5/6 selections back onto mom and see what happens.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

Elmer my old pal! I definitely see the logic in his theory as I’ve been working with selfed seed made on my own or my close circle of friends. I don’t see the problem with growing properly made selfed seed and breeding with it. I should reverse some of these s5/6 selections back onto mom and see what happens.

Did you make the back crosses and test them?