Self Pollination vs Cubing Process???? why cube?

[darwinsbulldog]

mmmm interesting stuff CFP65, how irritated would you be if you found out someone living near you was open pollinating their own stuff and let it escape everywhere... especially if you're in an apartment building where all the air ducting's connected up...

 

[CFP65]

wery annoyd, but there is no airducting in this appartment
the room has one square 12x12cm hole going to the outside with a bird-grill
this hole has been used as air escape with a fan blowing out of the room.
the air coming in to the room goes trough 2 other rooms to get into the tent room from the outside. so the pollen has to have come from either the CS plants, or be forigin pollen that have passed free rainy air, or bee dormant 2 year old pollen from last grow

but we will see i will try to let it pollinate a select branch of the new run of The White, if all the offspring is female then the plant was female with a wery-wery maleish side to it
here is a couple of pics of the S1.s

there was sown out 7 plants in the first run from this batch 4 days after the seeds where taken form the plants
they got their numbers as they sprouted (the germination rate was alarmingly poor) the last to germinate took 14 days, and the first to get sown was no.1 thats the one now showing male parts.
so there is a big difference in their growth stages
no.1 at 05-06-10

short middle fingers

no.5 middle finger anomaly

no.6 Dwarf

 

[darwinsbulldog]

it won't have come from the CS plants... the genetics/maths side of things just can't allow it, if you've self'ed a female, there're only going to be female offspring, though those can show male flowers, they can't produce seeds that will be male genetically. so i'd say either you've had rouge pollen from somewhere whether it's 2 yr old dormant stuff or from outside your grow. you may have touched something that had a grain or two of pollen on it still and then touched the flower and germinated it. either way, i guess it's no big deal if this is just one male out of the 1600 seeds you've got. you'll know if it is a much worse problem if you grow them out and find more males. lol maybe the cannabis pollen fairy came to visit just to throw a spanner in your works!

 

[CFP65]

i sure hope that its a single incident - but doing the maths 1/1600 and furthermore accidently picking just that one seed to sow out? anyways 10 more seedlings under way so will see if those are all female or not
i like the fairy with a spanner idea, allthouig i just decided that i really dont like fairys with spanners, must set up some fly traps
what about all those short leaves - genetic defects or genetic allocation conflicts??
anyone knows the genetic ansver to these things?

 

[darwinsbulldog]

hey cfp65 haha yeah well hopefully it's the fairy and an isolated incidence.

and yeah that's just a mutation, as you said you've self'ed the plant so it'll be likely two deleterious recessive mutations have matched up in a proportion of your progeny and those stunted middle leaves is how the double recessive trait is expressed. it'll just be a slight mutation in gene controlling the regulation of the growth of that middle leaf etc.

 

[gatoloco]

hi to all

may be some CS fogg fly at end to seed or plants? my STS females can make regular females show some or a lot of male flowers, just keeping near, for around 3 weeks from STS.


Some young afgan s1, 2 phenos:

thanks for this treat

 

[darwinsbulldog]

hey gatoloco nice pics thanks for sharing! how do you rate CS vs STS? which do you prefer to use?

 

[gatoloco]

hey gatoloco nice pics thanks for sharing! how do you rate CS vs STS? which do you prefer to use?

I never use CS, at first try STS, that work fine, and now i use STS. Can you tell me some about CS??

Critical STS:

 

[darwinsbulldog]

hey mate, CS is colloid silver, you make it by effectively "rusting" silver in water by passing an electrical current through .999 ag (99.9% silver). this dissolved silver in the water is sprayed onto the leaves of the plant daily and induces male flowering. i believe it's the safest option, the least dangerous chemical (some people drink it for healthy benefits), STS is a little more dangerous but apparently works better. i'm yet to try either

darwin

 

[gatoloco]

thanks darwin
STS is dangerous, pollutant, and ... I never make more product than i go to use but is STS ...

gato

 

[Dr_Tre]

Hey CFP65,

Hey CFP65,

Here's what crossed my mind.Maybe the female you selfed was not truly straight female, so there are hermies in the offspring and this "male" should soon throw some pistils.

 

[darwinsbulldog]

all plants should be female first though, as in they only show male flowers as a reaction to stress from the environment, it shouldn't be showing only male traits 100% with no female ones whatsoever from the get go without any stress. i think the female flowers would always be there, unless you started spraying the plant with CS from seedling size? i've never heard of this being done so let me know if i'm wrong or right in my assumptions?

 

[CFP65]

well its The White aka. Kromes Triangle from cut. (look at the elusive lady tread) i dont know if that one is straight female, but beeing what it is i thought it would be the best candidate for my first CS experiment
some of the other cuts i have made from the motherplants has been put under severe stress for a long time
without any issues, standing at my balcony where the light from the house flips on and of when i go into the kitchen.
the CS males was heavily CS.ed one of them even dipped into a 5L Cs. jar with the current going on, it was my first time doing CS treatment and the CS males was turned 100% and shed an abundance of pollen, it just took over much alot of time.

The S1 seeds where put on wet kitchen paper on a plate, and sown as they germinated and when the sprout came up the pot was put in the garden, where there is no false light, so they have been under no stress at all.

this is one of the CS males just before it goes off

this is the 7 S1 plants as they are now.

the male is in the upper left corner
and i do think that out of them all this is the one that looks most like its parent
i will take some photos of some plants from cuts from the mother that has the same hight as the male at this moment, and post it later so you can compare


as a cuoriosity the females came out with some double seeds too

i tried to germinate some of them but without no luck

 

[darwinsbulldog]

haha those seeds are sweet! i wonder if it's linked to polyploidy at all, mutation turning diploid to tetraploid. nice stuff though mate thanks for sharing

 

[englishrick]

looks like the seeds have tried to doubble but couldnt split,,,,,

what could have happend?

 

[darwinsbulldog]

looks like the seeds have tried to doubble but couldnt split,,,,,

what could have happend?

my guess is that it's either related to polyploidy and the plant trying to correct it but not having any luck because polyploidy is mostly induced by the inability of cells to split after chromosomes are doubled

or (this is probably more likely) it's a mutation that has some how increased the occurrence of twinning, the embryos would've just tried to split into two identical copies like twins in humans etc, but obviously they were unable to do so and appear to be "siamese twins" if you will.

first time i've ever seen it in cannabis or any other plant. cheers for sharing the pics CFP65

 

[darwinsbulldog]

there's some great info in the first link below, read the abstract and it talks about how it occurs due to cell transformation in the suspensor a structure established early on in embryonic development.

http://www.plantsci.cam.ac.uk/Haseloff/teaching/PDFlists/to1998_PDFs/Vernon94.pdf

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119795995/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
http://www.jstor.org/pss/2428911

 

[englishrick]

yes,,,they look like siamese twins,,,,,,,,good call darwin

 

[Texicannibus]

Man I missed this thread fabulous subject here looking forward to the discussion.

 

[CFP65]

super link there darwin, its heavy reading
i will now try to sow the rest of the twin seeds on kitchenpaper
to see if there should be any germination, it could be funny to se if
there would be some freaky plant coming