Selecting F1 parents for F2 generation

[Dyad]

The f2 generation, given enough seed is grown out, will show the recombinant recessives lurking within the f1. The exact outcome depends on your starting genetics and patterns of inheritance. The best practice, in my opinion, is to use multiple males and to separate your f2 seed stock based on the mother plant they come from. Using multiple males will increase your likelihood of pulling all available combinations from your f2. The real issue with a lot of text book genetics is they assume we all have infinite selections and this simply isn’t the case. With cannabis, especially, many people are operating with single digits plant counts, makes finding those low-percentage expressions nearly impossible to find purposely. How we can overcome this is by using mixed pollen from many males. How we can apply selection pressure to the outcome of the f2 seed is by segregating the mothers and beginning with our favorite.

I’d say a few tidbits to bear in mind is that, for the most part, like breeds like. So if you have a heavy PCK leaning f1 mom, her f2 will inherit more PCK traits. So each f2 stock can show differing results based on which grandparent is most represented by that specific slice of the much broader original gene pool.

The best practice is to grow as many f2 as you possibly can—even over successive runs if need be—from your favorite f1 mother. After that it’s all about your personal goals.

Do keep in mind that if you find a special clone mom in a true f2 generation you may not find one like her again. Even from the same seed stock. This is where linebreeding techniques are used to select an f2 female/male combination that will increase the ratio of that expression in the subsequent f3 lot. Repeat as necessary.

Could go on for days, but that should get your gears in motion. Good luck!

 

[kamyo]

Good stuff, Dyad. Makes perfect sense.

 

[Dyad]

Good stuff, Dyad. Makes perfect sense.

Another thing I’ve been thinking about since I posted that I thought would be helpful regarding the importance of the f2 generation in any breeding program.

Consider the following example: we have a clone only mom, call it ‘Kush’—and she’s great except for maybe some susceptibility to Powdery Mildew, ok? Now, let’s assume we have a seed-lot we already know is PM resistant and let’s call it ‘Berry’.

Logic will tell us that we should be able to cross the Kush and the Berry in order to increase the resistance of the Kush clone to PM, however, in practice what’s actually happening is we are lowering the PM resistance of the Berry line.

This is where the f2 really shines and a phenomenon called Transgressive Segregation should take place. This is where plants will show extremes beyond that of either of the parents. By making the f2 and rooting through large numbers we should be able to find a plant with all the qualities of mom but an EVEN HIGHER resistance to PM than the original Berry line. This is where we can begin to backcross to the original mother cut.

So... now we have:

Kush x Berry = Kushberry F1

KB f1 x KB f1 = Kushberry F2

Kush x KB f2 = Kushberry BC1 (or BX1)


The plant we found in the f2 will have higher resistance than the Berry dad, but the resulting BC1 seed will again be lowered due to the additional influence of mom. To make further progress, again we will look towards an f2 recombinant generation to find a stud that, again, possesses mom’s qualities but has increased resistances beyond the previous generation.

KB BC1 x KB BC1 = Kushberry BC1F2

Kush x KB BC1F2 = Kushberry BC2

Progress is determined by personal end goals, but with each backcross we should be seeing increased resistance through the subsequent generations, if our male selections are on point (which a whole other bag of worms, altogether).

Hope that helps more than it confuses. I can clarify anything, just ask.

Happy hunting!

 

[Dropped Cat]

Progress is determined by personal end goals, but with each backcross we should be seeing increased resistance through the subsequent generations, if our male selections are on point (which a whole other bag of worms, altogether).

Clearly you have hands on with breeding process, are you experienced, I wonder.

Never mind, I checked your profile, you seem qualified. lol

subbed

 

[Dyad]

Clearly you have hands on with breeding process, are you experienced, I wonder.

Truthfully, a lot less than I’d like to be at this stage, but behind the scenes things are moving in the right direction. Should have my new space up and going within the next week or two, also. Exciting times are among us. ��

 

[Dropped Cat]

Truthfully, a lot less than I’d like to be at this stage, but behind the scenes things are moving in the right direction. Should have my new space up and going within the next week or two, also. Exciting times are among us. ��

Good stuff, looking forward to your pics and techniques.

 

[Roms]

Hi Kamyo,

If it's the Panama sativa side that you wanna fix i would advise to focus your F2 breeding project in the male detection/selection. And to make your genetic bridge faster you can use just one specimen! Crossed to multiple or also just one mom that you like the taste. So the less of parents you use at start and the most zoom you do with breeding. Then with F3 et cetera you'll be able to use more of good sativa parents that you wish, also to go even faster and simply you can do backcross to the Panama sativa! Good play with your natural seeds bro, no reason to reverse the thing in the sad gmo!

 

[kamyo]

Roms, Dyad, and others

Thanks for the awesome discussion and information. Given the room I have, I'll probably keep whatever males I find in this run of a dozen, or at least what I can keep in veg, so probably around 3-4. Then find a couple moms. Not room to do a proper open pollination, but there are a still a good amount of f1s left for later.

So this will be a fun little experiment more than anything. Will be nice to see all of this first hand and have fun sorting through the phenos.