Sealed Room: To Aircool, or not to Aircool... That, is the question.

[FLoJo]

So I am re-vamping my room and I cant decide what to do about the lighting aspect..

I am going to run about 8 600w lights over 4 3x6 ebb n flo tables..

The room is fully sealed, with a co2 burner and controller. I have a dehumy in there, and just bought a 1 ton dedicated a/c for the room.

now I was going to run about 100cfm per light and just recirculate it all in the room because I dont want to cool the lights with a/c from the rest of the house.

However I was thinking that this is only going to add more heat into the room, plus use up another 300w or so in inline fans. the only benefit I would see is allowing the lights to be closer to the plants, but I figure that if the room is sealed, and the a/c is cranking keeping it around 78, would it even be worth it to air cool the lights?

These are the late night thoughts of a rambling insomniac

 

[Legaldroman]

Sounds like a nice set-up... If you're going to run a completely sealed room then there is no need to air cool the hoods. I use super sun reflectors and keep the hoods 12'' above the canopy with 1000w lights and no glass. Not to be negative at all, but I really don't see how a 1 ton unit is going to do the proper job of cooling that load. I run 1000's so the math is slightly different, but you can factor 4200btu per 1000 roughly... if you're going to run 4800 watts of light, a Co2 burner ,a Dehumidifier and fans then I would really suggest a bigger unit. In my opinion I would want at least a 3 ton for a sealed room with 4800 watts. No one ever factors latent heat from the plants, humidity all play an affect on the ability of the a/c unit to function. Every sales person will tell you the units can do more than they actually can...just my 2 cents.

 

[FLoJo]

ive factored that in.. the house has a 3 ton unit, with a dedicated loop into the room, so technically speaking its a 3 ton, with a 1 ton for additional cooling... and i think 4200 btu per 1k is a little high.. id say about 3000-3500 per 1k

the ballasts and all that will be out of the room.. the only heat in the room is from the lights, plants, pumps, and dehumy, as well as one can fan with carbon filter, and a few osc. fans.

i have super sun 2s and put them about 8 inches away from the canopy now being air cooled, so i figure i could do maybe 12 inches non air cooled?

 

[Tr33]

it will be ok if you cool the lights separately, NOT circulated in the room.
I have a 1ton AC cooling the room, with 6 - 1000watts, fans, NG CO2 gen, dehumin, and a heater. My room is 12x20x9 totally sealed and I can keep my temps at any temps needed during summer and winter. Lights are cooled separately from the room with outside air. I keep my hoods @ 10" from top of canopy with no worries.

 

[lokes]

Flo, why wouldn't you run air across the lights? One more fan, cut down on A/C costs, if your AC fails you're covered, drop the lights closer to the plants. It's a win, win.

Always cool your lights if you have the option, its the most cost effective way to help control your climate.

 

[Legaldroman]

Air cooling your lights requires that you cut holes in your sealed room to pull air through your hoods. The ENTIRE point of a completely sealed room is to not have any air leaks what so ever. Again just my 2 cents

 

[lokes]

Air cooling your lights requires that you cut holes in your sealed room to pull air through your hoods. The ENTIRE point of a completely sealed room is to not have any air leaks what so ever. Again just my 2 cents

No one can argue that Legal, but its very easy to cut some nice holes that can be sealed properly with minimal effort.

Hell I'd pay someone to do a nice job to save on the AC bill if I couldn't do it myself.

 

[dtfsux]

The ENTIRE point of a sealed room is to be able to control ALL aspects of the environment such as temp, CO2, humidity, etc. Its not about how many holes you can cut or not cut

Its just a matter of preference on to air cool the lights

The major + is that you remove alot of the heat when pulling air in from outside, through the lights, then out the room. This makes the A/C run less.

The major - is the setup, and possible leaks in the ducting.


I prefer air cooling the lights, well worth the effort IMO

I question using the house AC. Is this A/C cooling the rest of the house also? If not, forget the next set of questions. Does the house AC just push cold air in there? Is there a return back to the AC? What about odor?

 

[lokes]

The major + is that you remove alot of the heat when pulling air in from outside, through the lights, then out the room. This makes the A/C run less.

The major - is the setup, and possible leaks in the ducting.

I prefer air cooling the lights, well worth the effort IMO

I Agree totally dt, less one part. That is, leaks in the ducting. Its VERY easy to ensure no leaks.

Setup is a bitch, but again, the effort is worth the better climate.

I read it put best the other day.

Two guys went into a commercial greenhouse, and one guys asks the other guy, what's wrong with this picture.

Guy says, dunno, don't see anything wrong.

First guy says, would you pull out a chair and relax in here for an hour?

Guy says, definielty not, way to hot and humid in here.

Exactly.
----------------

Now I know we have AC and things to remedy sealed rooms, but everything has to work overtime to accomplish the same thing with much less effort if cooling the lights.

Hell, with the right, flap, you can use outside air coming into the room at about 382ppm of C02, not releasing anything, and just make up for the difference to get your desired PPMs.

Path of least resistance is always best IMHO. Granted the setup here, is not the path of least resitance, but in the long run, everything operates more efficiently.

Just having some fun going over the different possibilities dt, forgive me for the rant.

 

[toohighmf]

I'm gonna have to go with lokes on this one. I run Sealed Air cooled rooms most the time.
it's a little more up front work that pays over time. imagine if that 3 ton only kicked on 20 minutes an hour.. pull from the attic or house and dump it with another exhaust fan to keep the air moving through the attic and out. nothing but hot air would be removed w a proper sealed set up

 

[Lazyman]

CO2 rooms are supposed to be hot and humid-ish, 85* and 50% RH. I agree your AC is way too small and your central ac won't be much help. It will also dilute your CO2 as it blows into your room and pushes air out. I'd get a bigger AC in there and close off the central ducting, it will hurt more than help.

 

[toohighmf]

& move the AC intake and thermostat into the room.

 

[FLoJo]

I would air cool the lights with outside air, but it gets 100+ all day every day in the summer time, so i feel like there wouldnt be much cooling benefit there. the other option would be to bring cold air from the other parts of the house, through the lights, and then into the attic, but that would also seem to be a waste because the central ac would be running non stop just to air cool the lights..

the central right now cools the rest of the house, and the dedicated loop is basically a separate ducted intake, that loops back into the room.. so yes some co2 is lost, but i figured it would be better than nothing.

the room is in the middle of the house, so i figured even with the central shut off, the one ton portable would work fine.. its a 13500 btu industrial spot cooler. not some shotty window unit or chinese portable.

i figure the other option would be to add in some liquid cooling aspects.. maybe a 1hp chiller and a few ice boxes, or even a large radiator with a fan blowing across it.. but that becomes a much more expensive alternative. there seems to be no easy way to do it! LOL

maybe ill start off running 3600 and see how well it cools.

ps this is basically what my ac is

http://www.exava.com/shop?q=portable+air+conditioners&pid=650152158&bskuid=712190549

 

[Lazyman]

Nah do the air cooling if possible, 100 degrees is way cooler than the lights get, and if you modulate your fan speed (I've used as many as 4 6"AC hoods on a single 6" Vortex, at half speed) your exhaust temps will only be 20-30* above ambient. Push air through the lights instead of pulling so the fan deals with cooler air, runs more efficiently, and positively pressurizes the hood ducting so leaks push clean air out, instead of SUCKING smelly air/CO2 IN (which blows right outside, yikes!)

Seal all your hoods with foil tape, use insulated ducting, and use hood insulators (or water heater blankets) to keep the hot air in the ducting and out of your room. Keep the ducts as straight as possible, a 90* elbow cuts flow by 60%!!!

Use a screen on the fan intake from outside or your hoods will fill with bugs and dust, you'll still need to clean them weekly for best results. The heat from your lights will be cut by about 50% if you do this right!

 

[FLoJo]

i feel like if i air cool the lights and recirculate in the attic, its just going to heat up the attic and not do me much good.. maybe im wrong.. and like i said pulling cool air from the house is gonna be a pain in the balls when the bill comes LOL cuz that ac will run all mufukkin day LOL

does this ac really seem to small? I guess i could get a larger one.. another option would be to sell my 8 600s and hoods, and get like 4 or 5 fresca sols or some other water cooled light haha

 

[dtfsux]

How do you control the central A/C? based off grow room temp, or house temp?

I would air cool those lights, either from outside air, or the house. If you dont aircool, you still have the heat in the room to deal with. I think its better to push that in the house and deal with it there.

And you wouldnt recirculate into the attic. Pull from outside, then into the attic. Or pull from one side of the attic, and vent into the other side. Install some gable fans, and create some cross ventilation.

And ditch the central AC into the room, get a bigger unit.

 

[superultramega]

This sounds really strange.

Have you run this makeshift AC run off your house AC unit? You might as well be ventilating your CO2 right out of the room (because that is what you are doing anyway). At the same time you're spilling odor all over your house. The setup you describe is not a sealed room. Not at all. How do you maintain the correct temp? Where's the thermostat? I really can't see any way that would work.

Ventilating your lights with 100deg outside air will do a lot to keep temps down. You'll still need additional AC but less. It's very easy to keep an AC unit sealed. Even the window units can be converted to a sealed air handling unit with a couple hours work.

You really should never hook up your house AC to your grow. There's really no way to make that work easily. It would require zoning dampers and a well calculated flow rate to make it all even out. And in any case you'd be dumping CO2 into your house.

 

[FLoJo]

i guess i was a little unclear at first..

initially i just had my room with the central a/c and i was bleeding co2 like a stuck pig obviously.. the room was cooled by a shitty portable unit additionally which was a single exhaust, which was also dumping co2..

so i changed to a larger room, got the true 1 ton portable with dedicated intake and exhaust, and was planning to just run that as my sole source of cooling.. i have the option of using the vent from the central in there or not, obviously if i use it, its not truly a sealed room, but i figured this 1 ton could cool the room down considering that the room is surrounded by other rooms in the house that are 70-75 degrees.

if it wasnt able to cool the room, i was going to consider air cooling the lights as well, but then i have to cut a bunch more holes, run ducting blah blah which i dont really want to do in all honesty.

the more i think about it with all the extra gear i gotta use i may as well say fuck the sealed room and dedicated ac n shit and just add a few more lights LOL cuz the a/c i got specifically for the grow room uses about 1200w anyways which is 2 more lights and i could just run the central ac LOL

 

[superultramega]

How can you run the central AC without making your entire house smell like weed?

I guess I don't understand what you're trying to do. You need to cool your room. And, you need to cool it with a sealed AC or scrubbed exhaust no matter what you do. Just for the sake of odor control if nothing else.
Have you grown before? It is going to smell. A lot! You can't start actively moving air through your grow room and distributing it through the house via the central AC uncleaned. And again you have the problem of how to control the temperature of your room and your house at the same time.

Either you haven't thought this through or you're not explaining it very well.

 

[FLoJo]

its called a carbon filter, and I have one on every inline fan that I own. you cant smell a thing.

obviously i have grown before, otherwise i wouldnt have a grow room to re-vamp would i? yes i know it smells.

i know i need to cool the room.. this is why I purchased a 1 ton spot cooler. it has a dedicated intake and exhaust. the room will be scrubbed 24/7, again no smell.

it was basically a simple question whether it was worth the hassle to air cool the lights to bring down the temps, or just let the a/c do its thing. the general consensus is that yes, it is worth it, and yes, it will help a great deal. i understand this.

most people seem to think that the a/c wont be able to cool the room. I guess i will have to slap all the lights in there and see what happens for a day, and address the issue from there.

any other constructive comments or criticism is invited.