running elecricity to growroom help,4000k.

[chongsbuddy]

i appreciate the concern,but a electrician is helping me step by step with the installation,and when its done i am going to call my cousin to hook it into the main box,that way i dont have to deal with live electricity.i am going to get 8/3 wire(30 feet) and a 2 pole breaker for my box,and 4 1 pole breakers for the subpanel and a subpanel and the hardware.so i will run the wire from the main to the sub and hook all the outlets and what not up onto a motherboard,and show the guru pics as i go and he will walk me through it.i hope that puts people a ease!

 

[madpenguin]

Sounds good. We're just worried about ya....

That 8/3 is only good for 40A as I'm sure your electrician friend told you. You should still check out that link. I've went into great detail about wiring up a subpanel on that thread.

Sounds like you found an electrician "online" that is willing to help by the way you've said "show pics as I go".... For your own benefit, you might want to double post your progress here as well (including pics).

If your hell bent on doing this yourself, then I will most certainly walk you through it step by step if you need it. But again, read that post that I linked to above for sure.

 

[solarz]

For all of you sparkies out there....how would you recommend searching and using an electrician for growroom related work? I mean, there are only so many things that you can tell a sparky for why you want to have a sub panel installed in a back bedroom. Beleive me, i tried. I tried to get a sub panel dropped into my back bedroom so i could properly run 4000w plus equipment, but they refused to do it, and claimed that they could even do it b/c of code regulation. They told me they were even allowed to install sub panels like that, they would have to install it outside, then drill some shit back thru the brick, into the room. It was just way to much going on, so i opted for 3 20amp circuits dropped into a "server closet".

At the moment, that still leaves me short for what i REALLY want to run in that room...and i'm feeling i'm going to be spending even more to try and get it up to par with what i want to do. So any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

solarz

 

[PharmaCan]

i appreciate the concern,but a electrician is helping me step by step with the installation,and when its done i am going to call my cousin to hook it into the main box,that way i dont have to deal with live electricity.i am going to get 8/3 wire(30 feet) and a 2 pole breaker for my box,and 4 1 pole breakers for the subpanel and a subpanel and the hardware.so i will run the wire from the main to the sub and hook all the outlets and what not up onto a motherboard,and show the guru pics as i go and he will walk me through it.i hope that puts people a ease!

Actually, putting the wire into the main panel is one of the most dangerous parts - the wire is stiff and you have to pull a little hard and it's easy for your hands to slip or the wire to go someplace it shouldn't. Be real careful when you do this. Don't just watch the wire going thru the hole. Also watch your hands and the end of the wire.

Madpenguin - Where ya been man? Busy working again? Good to see you back!

PC

 

[madpenguin]

You can't really without taking some sort of risk. Most, if not all, electricians are going to know what is going on even if you call it a server room. You'd have to be very confident and convincing about setting up a "server room" when talking to an electrician in order for them not to suspect.

In today's economy, I don't ask questions (well, in any economy, I don't ask questions). I just do what the client want's and make it code compliant. BTW, you can install a subpanel in a bedroom. The code doesn't say that you can't. Just not in kitchens, bathrooms, linen closets or over steps of a stairway.

You can't have anything extend 3 feet past the face of the cover in front of the panel and you have to have 30" or working space total for either side. You can have 0" of space to the right of it, but that means you have to have 30" of space to the left of it. Or you can have 15" of space on either side. The cover has to be able to open at least 90 degrees as well....

 

[solarz]

MadP...how about i just fly you in for a day and you make it all happen bro?? LOL

no, seriously...

 

[solarz]

But on a serious note...this was in a back bedroom, and i asked the guy about setting up a subpanel on a wall outside of a closet, and the guy straight up told me that he couldn't...so i kind of pushed back and told him that i thought he could, and even made a fake call to the "company who was sending/installing the servers" and dude had his boss/owner of the company come out and check it out. He told me the same exact thing. That's why i ended up with the 20 amp circuits.

 

[madpenguin]

Eh... They were right. Add bedrooms to the list above for many jurisdictions. But that's always an AHJ thing I'm pretty sure. Can't find anything in the NEC pertaining to it anyway.

You would need to call your local electric inspector and ask him. If he says "no" then your area has made an amendment to the NEC that adds bedrooms to the list of places you can't install a sub panel.

Edit - Actually, I think you can put them in kitchens as well. You just need to comply with 110.26 clearance requirements. Again, your AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction) has the final say.

 

[solarz]

so is there a way around this? Is there any way that i can get 4000w plus equipment in this room with the existing 3 20 amp circuits that's in there?

 

[solarz]

not to mention, i'm running @ 120v...

 

[madpenguin]

Well, you've got a total of 5760w continuous load available over 3 20A circuits. Just don't push any one circuit past 16A....

 

[solarz]

One more ? madP...when you say continuous load....what exactly do you mean?

 

[madpenguin]

Where the load is expected to run 3 hours or more.

Which, in a grow room, everything should be considered as a continuous load....
So, you have to make sure the load doesn't exceed 80% of the branch circuit's ampacity (which is 16A for a 20A circuit and 12A for a 15A circuit and 24A for a 30A circuit).

 

[solarz]

Cool, i gotcha. Thanks bro. I may have to mix and match some lights and run a few 600's instead of a gang of 1kws.

solarz

 

[madpenguin]

You'd be alot better off if your ballasts could run at 240v. Then you just make some minor modifications at the panel and you've got double the amperage available....

 

[madpenguin]

Madpenguin - Where ya been man? Busy working again? Good to see you back!

PC

Nah... Got a girlfriend. That's worse than being busy at work. I'm fuckin' up my grow because of it too..... Clones dying because of no water, the pump disconnecting from the hose inside the mother res almost killed my mother(ebb&flood). Just generally neglecting the ladies in the attic in favor of the one lady that doesn't know I grow.... Very hard to keep stuff like that secret and still maintain your op. Come harvest time, I think I'll be "out of town for a couple days" just to be able to get the shit done.....

 

[solarz]

So madP...is there any way that i could turn just on of those into a 240v (with an easy modification?) so that way i could possibly run 2 240 1kws on that circuit alone (or however many will safely run on there)?

or is this something that is a little more intricate?

 

[cantstoplooking]

Is it ok to run 120v on 20a circuits?

is it ok to run 5 120v circuits on 20a breakers and would a electrician do this without asking alot of questions?

Is there a more efficent way to run 3k watt lights a ac,fans,etc,etc without having all those seperate outlets? If your going to hire a electrician what would be the best thing to ask him to set up in a basement room?

sorry I dont know anything about electricity and all this confuses the hell out of me so any help would be appreciated..thanks

 

[madpenguin]

@ solarz, Yea, a 240v 1kw light should draw anywhere from 4-5A. You'll need to read the specs for the ballast in question. If your comfortable inside a live panel and know exactally what is live and what is not when the cover is off, as well as knowing what is grounded and what is not, and being aware of the relation of energized parts in proximity to grounded parts, you can safely work inside a live panel.

In a nut shell, manually trip the single pole 20A breaker that is currently feeding the circuit in question, have a double pole 20A breaker ready that is made for your panel, remove the single pole 20A breaker from the panel, pull the white neutral conductor off the neutral buss that is associated with that branch circuit, put a piece of black electrical tape around the white conductor and then tie both conductors (black and white) onto the new double pole breaker (white wire on one screw, black wire on the other). Systematically move any single pole breakers down one notch (killing them first) until you free up a double slot for your new double pole breaker to fit into.

Leave the new 20A double pole breaker in the "off" position, then go to the receptacle that is now 240v and switch it out with a 240v only receptacle so you don't accidentally plug a 120v piece of equipment into it...... While you have the wires exposed at the receptacle location, tape a piece of black electrical tape around the white conductor there as well. They are both hot wires now. You have no neutral.

I typed all that really fast. If you don't understand any of it or are uncomfortable in any way with doing it, then don't.....

When you take the white wire off the neutral buss in the panel, it might not reach down to the breaker location. You'll need a piece of #12 wire and a red wirenut to extend that wire. Make sure you tighten down the red wire nut until your fingers start to hurt and the 2 wires start to twist around one another. You want a good solid connection whenever splicing wires.

 

[madpenguin]

Is it ok to run 120v on 20a circuits?

Sure. Amperage and voltage are 2 separate things but are also not mutually exclusive. A basic understanding of ohms law will tell you everything you need to know about the 2.

is it ok to run 5 120v circuits on 20a breakers and would a electrician do this without asking alot of questions?

Again. No problem. 20A circuits are mandatory in some locations in a house, such as bathrooms and kitchens. Anywhere you'll be using a heavier load, you'll want a heavier circuit. Yes, an electrician might ask questions if he is nosey. Technically, it's none of his business. The only valid reason one might inquire is to maximize the effectiveness of what you want to accomplish, thus, I'd be prepared to answer the question.

Is there a more efficent way to run 3k watt lights a ac,fans,etc,etc without having all those seperate outlets?

240v appliances use half as much amperage as their 120v counterparts. Instead of needing 5 120v circuits, you would need 2.5 240v circuits.

If your going to hire a electrician what would be the best thing to ask him to set up in a basement room?

That's tricky. A Server room seems to be a common response. I would definately say one of those you want for a dehumidifier. Even if he says "you only need a 15A circuit for that", turn him down. Say you like to overkill shit and you WANT a dedicated 20A circuit for your dehumidifier. Ummmm..... Go online and learn some computer savy tech talk to bullshit your way past the other 4 circuits. Tell him your "setting up 2 HP ProLiant DL380's to serve your growing customer base. Time warner should be here tomorrow to set up my T1 connection and I want all this crap done before hand"....

Thats 3 circuits accounted for. Tell him your going to be spending alot of time down there so you want to plug a mini fridge in to another one. "Yes, I want the fridge on it's own dedicated 20A circuit. I don't care if it only draws 7 amps....." Shit like that... Make up something for one more circuit and your done.

I don't know. You'll just have to bullshit your way thru it if your really worried about tipping him off.

sorry I dont know anything about electricity and all this confuses the hell out of me so any help would be appreciated..thanks

No problem. Better to ask than wing it on your own.