Root Aphids...A Battle you Won't Win!

[SeaMaiden]

Uh, even the chemicals aren't a guarantee of success.

Who said to use the Bayer? I tried it first, didn't do a thing. And that is the common theme in all these threads on all these forums started on root aphids--no one treatment seems to work for everyone.

Use the met52 biofungicide. I had a round or two that i couldn't get through a flowering cycle , but now just apply the met52 pellets sparingly from the time they are clones up to the bigger pots , and i've seen like 3-4 adult flyers since , but they're all dead or rendered immobilized by the fungus. Plants aren't affected anymore by pests . Try it , you won't be dissapointed.

Met52 is a fungus, not a fungicide. Just clarifying.

^ I might have to implement that MEt 52 into my IPM for these damn things. So it's a fungicide instead of a chem? Glad to hear that, I will have to look into it a little more.

No, not a fungicide. Fungicide=fungus killer. This IS a fungus, a fungus that attacks and kills root aphids.

Have you cleaned out your entire growing area and treated that as well? If you don't, the problems will continue to reoccur. Electrical outlets, corners, nooks, crannies, lights, ANY place a teeny tiny little bug could possibly hide in likely has a bitch flyer hiding in it, and she must be killed.

Met52 is Metarhizum anisopliae Strain F52 (thus the moniker).

 

[watts]

nematodes and botaniguard should work i hear.

 

[Budwhyser]

Uh, even the chemicals aren't a guarantee of success.

Who said to use the Bayer? I tried it first, didn't do a thing. And that is the common theme in all these threads on all these forums started on root aphids--no one treatment seems to work for everyone.

Met52 is a fungus, not a fungicide. Just clarifying.


No, not a fungicide. Fungicide=fungus killer. This IS a fungus, a fungus that attacks and kills root aphids.

Have you cleaned out your entire growing area and treated that as well? If you don't, the problems will continue to reoccur. Electrical outlets, corners, nooks, crannies, lights, ANY place a teeny tiny little bug could possibly hide in likely has a bitch flyer hiding in it, and she must be killed.

Met52 is Metarhizum anisopliae Strain F52 (thus the moniker).

All accurate info. Despite what some of the experts of this forum believe, there are some strains of these things that can't be killed. I've used most of the super toxic stuff, including Bayer, only to find that weeks later they return, even after multiple dosages spread 3-4 days apart. The only for sure cure is to reset with an intense sterilization of your space including a 24-48 Ozone treatment, which will mos def kill everything alive in the room.

I think the problem is that you can't eradicate the ones that are burrowed deep into the root zone with a drench because the soil and roots protect them from exposure to the toxins

Also, the more stuff you use that is ineffective only makes them stronger and more resistant, making it that much harder for the person who gets them from you after you visit the hydro shop and leave a few samples there unknowingly

Met 52 did not work for me to eradicate the ongoing infestation, and you have to give it 3-4 weeks to innoculate the soil. I am hoping that it will benefit my new cuts and help to prevent future infestations.

For some, a complete reset is the only way to totally get rid of these things. At least that is my experience, your mileage may vary...

 

[SeaMaiden]

All accurate info. Despite what some of the experts of this forum believe, there are some strains of these things that can't be killed. I've used most of the super toxic stuff, including Bayer, only to find that weeks later they return, even after multiple dosages spread 3-4 days apart. The only for sure cure is to reset with an intense sterilization of your space including a 24-48 Ozone treatment, which will mos def kill everything alive in the room.

I think the problem is that you can't eradicate the ones that are burrowed deep into the root zone with a drench because the soil and roots protect them from exposure to the toxins

I found that flooding my tables and leaving them flooded (at least 2" up the sides of the pots) is what allowed me the 'best' control. Now, the subsequent disease issues...? Powdery mildew that I simply could *not* control, let alone eradicate, and the Tx's that I used for it burned the plants.

I can see ozone working well in this scenario, especially if it can circulate into walls, outlets, etc. Plus, it offers you that lovely scent of petrichor.

Also, the more stuff you use that is ineffective only makes them stronger and more resistant, making it that much harder for the person who gets them from you after you visit the hydro shop and leave a few samples there unknowingly

Met 52 did not work for me to eradicate the ongoing infestation, and you have to give it 3-4 weeks to innoculate the soil. I am hoping that it will benefit my new cuts and help to prevent future infestations.

For some, a complete reset is the only way to totally get rid of these things. At least that is my experience, your mileage may vary...

Honestly, I was hesitant about telling TheNewGuy about it. It's quite expensive, needs to be used as a prophylactic instead of a treatment for active infestation, and quite simply has not worked for everyone. If you look into it, you'll see that it simply does not offer a 100% kill rate, which is really what we're after, we cannot allow a single female to continue to live.

If I had an active infestation going, I would be willing to sacrifice some plants to the hot water treatment, probably starting with water around 110*F, and moving up according to efficacy if needed.

It seems that root aphids are a lot like other aphids such as fucking cabbage aphids (which also express a pregnant female flyer stage, just like root aphids! my cole crops are COVERED with them) are just incredibly difficult to control and treat. Even using chemicals with translaminar action, they are quite difficult to deal with. At least RAs don't make that nasty waxy-dandruff stuff that's all over the cabbage aphid-infested areas, and I thank God every day that they're not interested in anything else I'm growing, or my entire garden would be decimated.

 

[max_well]

Hey Budwhyser..
I know what you are going through, and it really can be a loosing battle. I had a tough time with these in a small warehouse about 18 months ago, and after trying all the recommended insecticides, with thorough dosage and technique, and reading pretty everything that there is to read on the topic, the conclusion I came to is that it's best to clean house asap, and not struggle moving forward. I think there is a lot of varied experience that people have with treatments because there is now a good deal of variety between aphid types that people have in their indoor gardens, with different levels of acquired resistance to the common chemical treatments recommended-- so what may be effective for some is not for others. Coupled with all the parameters (environment, growing medium, plant size, strain, etc.) that are different from one indoor garden to the next, it's hard to rely on methods that people confidently defend worked %100 for them to solve their RA problem.
I agree that, although very sad to do, a plan to breakdown and reset is what I would recommend to anyone with these in their indoor garden. I did see some strains finish without completely compromised results, but if RA are found in veg or early flower along with the noticeable trademarks of reduced vigor and phantom deficiency, I would suggest culling everything.
As for the resetting a room, after lots of research I found that a good way of ensuring a pest-free environment is heating the room up for some hours (by way of turning exhaust fans, AC off and running lights, or with a heater / propane burner, co2 generator, etc). In the vineyards of Australia where RA are a concern (phylloxera), they have heat sheds to treat harvesting equipment that may be carrying the pest from location to location
http://www.abc.net.au/rural/reporter/stories/s1320457.htm

I suspect that this would be more reliable than ozone to kill all stages of RA from egg to adult. As for bleach, you're correct that it is not a great method to rely on for complete erradication : http://www.ajevonline.org/content/48/2/157.abstract

hope some of this info helps ... these little things really can mess with your head if your going in circles trying to battle them. It's difficult to bring oneself to throw away adult plants that you put a lot of time and energy towards, but the full break down and heat bake of your environment to start fresh I found to be a good therapy to provide some peace of mind moving forward. Once one gets back to healthy plants in a clean environment, even an experience grower will be surprised and delighted by how easily and vigorously they grow if he or she has been dealing with rounds of RA compromised plants. good luck!

 

[medicalmj]

Researchers have 100% kill rate with soil borne pest using a 10 minute 50C drench. Do some research as to what temps time to ensure best results. You see, RAs or any other pest, CANNOT develop a resistance to high heat.

 

[Obsidian]

I won.
imid does it
takes several treatments
you need to start in the mother stage
soak her pot regularly with imid laced water
every clone must be soaked with imid before going into flower

do not recycle soil or any medium coco etc
eggs carry over hatch and the next gen starts over
root apphids have 5 stages of development and
can stay in any stage of development without morphing to next
Devil Bugs are a hard battle, yet easy to control if you follow specific
methods of control.
you must start at the beginning and keep up with the battle.

You must and I mean must wash your grow containers out between each grow thoroughly
use a dishwasher and hot water, raise the temp of your water heater to over 140F to toast the eggs in the pots. a quick scrub before placing them in the dishwasher to get the medium out first.

otherwise start over with clean grow equip and go through the precautions of treatment for each and every grow after that.

Bad thing is that these things are in your grow house flying around, and even if you get all cleaned there are still a few hunderd floating around your place looking for a place to
live.
Do you have regular potted plants in your place, that was the on vector I forgot to treat and had to fight these bastards a year later, but I got them under control with allot of hard work

don't listen to these peeps who say they didn't win, they didn't keep up the fight.
you just can't treat once
you treat every time you go into your grow.

good luck

 

[Raw_Dog]

Most people won't use anything that's not food grade in or on their plants, especially when you're talking about eradicating pests. That stuff is made for lawns.

Lawns, Ground covers, flowers, roses (Rosales), trees and shrubs, along building foundations.

On another note, there is no complete irradication of root aphids. This is a consistent battle, a battle you choose to fight consistently and win or stay organic and have threads like this and try to figure out how in the hell you can harvest without these bugs. Intelligence is taking in good information, you decide what to do with the info...

Why are people still discussing Spidermite, root aphids and fungus gnats? The solution is out there, go buy it.

Active ingredients: .72% imideclorid.

 

[Norkali]

Acephate (Orthene 97WP), along with Pyrethrins + Piperonyl Butoxide (Riptide ULV) is what got rid of them for me.

 

[opt1c]

merit75wp for root aphids... hit em with avid on top incase you misdiagnose and you're really dealing with mites... once should be more than enough

 

[puff adder]

I've had RA's for years. Never could totally erradictae them. What has worked well though is IMID, it knocks them back enough to not be an issue.

In one of my rooms, I did have to scrap everything, as they seemed to become resistant to IMID.

I used MET52 succesfully for a bit, but then I've also had runs where it didn't work.

Today, I use MET52, I use IMID in veg, and once again in week 1 flowering, as well as Azamx root drench, and also a pyrehtren product called Evergreen. I use all four products in veg, once again in week 1, and it usually lets me run to the end with good success. Usually towards the very end of runs I'll find a flyer or 2, but my yields and quality tell me things are OK.

It's a never ending fight. RA's will shake your confidence in your ability to grow.

 

[medicalmj]

The only thing you can use more than a couple times per season is hot water. Otherwise YOU are the one making these super RAs.

Evergreen is an awesome product. One of only a few pyrethrins that're made for drenches. Wish the hydro shops out here'd carry it. They're a bunch of stubborn SOBs.

 

[yerboyblue]

Acephate (Orthene 97WP), along with Pyrethrins + Piperonyl Butoxide (Riptide ULV) is what got rid of them for me.

This is exactly what I will be doing, with Met52 innoculated soil, heat treated soil, and Botainguard added to the dunks.

SeaMaiden, I know what you mean about them hiding out, but it was my understanding that they die off after a few days without a host plant?

As far as eggs, it was my understanding that they only lay these in the overwintering stage. If the bugs are active, then they give live birth? Hence my idea of taping up the pot around the stem for a few days while the buggers outside the rootzone starve, not to mention cleaning all trays in hot water or heat treating them.

 

[Norkali]

I should also point out that I used steam in addition to Met52 along with the Orthene/Riptide.

I used a steam cleaner just like this to clean everything I could think of....the floor, little cracks and holes where they could hide, all pots, and cloning trays. The reasoning that very little life, besides certain micro-organisms, can survive such high temperatures for more than a matter of seconds.

I should have bookmarked it damn-it....but I got the idea after reading an article on here, or maybe it was somebody's idea in this thread...? Either way....from phylloxera literature:

No viticultural equipment, including mechanical harvesters, can be removed from a phylloxera-*(AKA: might as well be Root Aphid)* infested zone without washing, steam cleaning or heat treatment, and inspection and certification from quarantine authorities.

*: personally added

 

[yerboyblue]

^that steamer looks handy, any link on where to get one or should I just go on amazon?

 

[SeaMaiden]

Researchers have 100% kill rate with soil borne pest using a 10 minute 50C drench. Do some research as to what temps time to ensure best results. You see, RAs or any other pest, CANNOT develop a resistance to high heat.

The only paper I've read was using grape stocks and water at 120*F. Then grapeman posted that it's not 100% kill rate. Some folks tried the 120*F treatment and said it killed even their very well-rooted mothers. Another person reported back to me privately that they tried it with 115*F water and it worked. I cannot verify any of that information.

I like the idea of using steam instead of chemicals to clean out the growing area.

 

[Budwhyser]

Hey Budwhyser..
I know what you are going through, and it really can be a loosing battle. I had a tough time with these in a small warehouse about 18 months ago, and after trying all the recommended insecticides, with thorough dosage and technique, and reading pretty everything that there is to read on the topic, the conclusion I came to is that it's best to clean house asap, and not struggle moving forward. I think there is a lot of varied experience that people have with treatments because there is now a good deal of variety between aphid types that people have in their indoor gardens, with different levels of acquired resistance to the common chemical treatments recommended-- so what may be effective for some is not for others. Coupled with all the parameters (environment, growing medium, plant size, strain, etc.) that are different from one indoor garden to the next, it's hard to rely on methods that people confidently defend worked %100 for them to solve their RA problem.
I agree that, although very sad to do, a plan to breakdown and reset is what I would recommend to anyone with these in their indoor garden. I did see some strains finish without completely compromised results, but if RA are found in veg or early flower along with the noticeable trademarks of reduced vigor and phantom deficiency, I would suggest culling everything.
As for the resetting a room, after lots of research I found that a good way of ensuring a pest-free environment is heating the room up for some hours (by way of turning exhaust fans, AC off and running lights, or with a heater / propane burner, co2 generator, etc). In the vineyards of Australia where RA are a concern (phylloxera), they have heat sheds to treat harvesting equipment that may be carrying the pest from location to location
http://www.abc.net.au/rural/reporter/stories/s1320457.htm

I suspect that this would be more reliable than ozone to kill all stages of RA from egg to adult. As for bleach, you're correct that it is not a great method to rely on for complete erradication : http://www.ajevonline.org/content/48/2/157.abstract

hope some of this info helps ... these little things really can mess with your head if your going in circles trying to battle them. It's difficult to bring oneself to throw away adult plants that you put a lot of time and energy towards, but the full break down and heat bake of your environment to start fresh I found to be a good therapy to provide some peace of mind moving forward. Once one gets back to healthy plants in a clean environment, even an experience grower will be surprised and delighted by how easily and vigorously they grow if he or she has been dealing with rounds of RA compromised plants. good luck!

Thanks Max! Again more vindication for my experience. There is no one cure for all program! Interesting about the heat. exactly how hot is nec to kill them off and for how long?

 

[Raw_Dog]

Fighting RootAphids is an on-going battle, you never win, they are always attacking. You can't steam clean once and expect those jokers to be completely gone! "Did you steam the pants you had on or the walls thoroughly?

Why not a frequent dosage every thirty days? Root Aphids isn't something I go to my room and expect to see. Its proven certain things work, and others things are just more headaches. My head is hurting thinking about this.

 

[Budwhyser]

Fighting RootAphids is an on-going battle, you never win, they are always attacking. You can't steam clean once and expect those jokers to be completely gone! "Did you steam the pants you had on or the walls thoroughly?

Why not a frequent dosage every thirty days? Root Aphids isn't something I go to my room and expect to see. Its proven certain things work, and others things are just more headaches. My head is hurting thinking about this.

RD
We are all ecstatic that you have this thing figured out. Some of us aren't there yet. I think the 30 day dose program is a fabulous idea, but to get there I've got to reset. When you've used multiple dosages of the most toxic shit known to man only to find the same things crawling in your pot a week later, the 30 day program is useless. I'm hoping this thread encourages people to consider the reset after all else has failed so they don't spend the money I have chasing after a resolution that may never happen. If I could have gotten them under control before it got major a reset would not have been optional for me. However, when you start to see the dieses look on plants in adjacent rooms, you gotta make a move. I appreciate your input

 

[Raw_Dog]

RD
We are all ecstatic that you have this thing figured out. Some of us aren't there yet. I think the 30 day dose program is a fabulous idea, but to get there I've got to reset. When you've used multiple dosages of the most toxic shit known to man only to find the same things crawling in your pot a week later, the 30 day program is useless. I'm hoping this thread encourages people to consider the reset after all else has failed so they don't spend the money I have chasing after a resolution that may never happen. If I could have gotten them under control before it got major a reset would not have been optional for me. However, when you start to see the dieses look on plants in adjacent rooms, you gotta make a move. I appreciate your input

Let me explain something really quickly, I have had to do everything you have named. I know what it feels like to have to move. I can get witnesses of this account. I had Root Aphids so bad that they were flying around in my room, crawling everywhere. I didn't even know what they were. I saw them crawling in my pots, crawling on me when I stuck my finger in the pot. I used to stick my hand in the pot and 50 of them would be on my hand within seconds. I have been there. But now I have my situation under control. I know they are Spring, Summer, Fall loving pest. I stay on top of them. I keep a log. I know when I last sprayed, I know how much I used. I know if I used it as a light preventative or a heavy dosage. I sprayed the walls, floors, vents, even the clothes I had on when I sprayed. I dry cleaned all my clothes, had the carpet people come and clean my 1st and 2nd levels of my house. I dropped commercial insecticide bombs in all my rooms. I sprayed outside. Put down lime, and lawn pest killer sprays. But only one thing was needed for their return...

Root Aphids come in Fox Farm soil, that is the truth. QUOTE ME. I had 1 bag left over after my infestation and I took it to the Hydro store to check it, and out came hundreds of bugs. My soil had been there for at least 2 months. Since then, I switched to ProMix. I give a control flush every 30 days and now Im free from worry. I haven't won the war but these guys aren't taking me out of my hobby any longer. Thats all.

BTW, I havent seen a Root Aphid since the Summer of 2011.