Ron Paul 2012!!! Your thoughts on who we should pick for our "Cause"?

[DiscoBiscuit]

If we where to hold up individuals property rights all this pollution would stop, because there would be recourse in the courts,and if they are a big problem enough people could sue and potentially put them out of bisnuess.

That's the theory. In fact, that was the plan under the Articles of Confederation. States sued their intra-state grievances in court. Courts were so over worked that states not only had to make laws, they had to enforce them.

As inter-state grievances arose, states realized they had no arbitrating power. Exit Articles of Confederation.

also if you see a product that comes from a polluting industry dont buy it and thas more effective than letting whats currently happening where one beurocracy is there to basicly takes bribes and changes the saftey guidlines so the company falls within them.

None of the folks who die every year from salmonella tainted produce actually "see" the pollution.

also think about how we simultainiously prop up the car compainies and subsidise oil ,and then promoting and investing in green energey industries with our tax money and run them into the ground and they get slaps on the wrists its pretty shamefull and the establishment on both sides dont care.

Oh, they care. They're simply managing to undo each others work. One side wants no regulations and is very effectively deregulating industries. Where regulations can't be dissolved, enforcement is defunded. To get back the necessary regulations and enforcement, we'll have to have enough lawmakers willing to vote for regulated industries.

The toilet is going to stop up. However, we don't have to go back to the outhouse because we know how to unstop toilets.

 

[ShroomDr]

=
Both of these were released today

Iowa Republican Presidential Caucus
Rasmussen Reports
Romney 23, Paul 22, Gingrich 13, Santorum 16, Perry 13, Bachmann 5, Huntsman 3, Cain
Romney +1


Iowa Republican Presidential Caucus
Insider Advantage
Romney 17, Paul 17, Gingrich 17, Santorum 13, Perry 11, Bachmann 12, Huntsman 3, Cain
Tie.
++++++++++++++++++++

Clinton's popularity?
As in popular target of the GOP?
IF Newt somehow won, the ticket wouldnt need her (potential popularity with soccer moms; they will Hate Newt anyway).

Biden's harsh views on drug laws would make his exit a welcome one, but Clinton swapping places (which i have read multiple times as well) only illustrates how ingrain and inbred the whole system is.

FWIW Jeb will be 63 in 2016 (And would have an easy win in 'the south' including FL).

Chelsey for Congress!

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

=
Both of these were released today

Iowa Republican Presidential Caucus
Rasmussen Reports
Romney 23, Paul 22, Gingrich 13, Santorum 16, Perry 13, Bachmann 5, Huntsman 3, Cain
Romney +1


Iowa Republican Presidential Caucus
Insider Advantage
Romney 17, Paul 17, Gingrich 17, Santorum 13, Perry 11, Bachmann 12, Huntsman 3, Cain
Tie.
++++++++++++++++++++

Clinton's popularity?
As in popular target of the GOP?
IF Newt somehow won, the ticket wouldnt need her (potential popularity with soccer moms; they will Hate Newt anyway).

Biden's harsh views on drug laws would make his exit a welcome one, but Clinton swapping places (which i have read multiple times as well) only illustrates how ingrain and inbred the whole system is.

FWIW Jeb will be 63 in 2016 (And would have an easy win in 'the south' including FL).

Chelsey for Congress!

Most popular with the electorate. Not sure Hillary would be any friendlier to weed than the status quot.

Jeb would have to run against two opponents - Hillary and W's legacy.

 

[itisme]

seriously...we need to let private companies do whatever the fuck they want to the land. blow up mountains and all.

and KSP

We as Americans need to step up and do tons of things to help save the environment. The EPA doesn't do that now thought bro. They are in the lobbyists pockets. If somebody is interfering with your property or rights then you can sue them and we won't have bullshit caps like BP got in the GULF OIL SPILL.

If I had a picture of 1,100,000 Innocent men and women behind bars that never even violated anybody's rights I am extremely concerned about my country. He will restore our freedoms and with them we can protect the environment and elect officials in your state and local governments to protect your local communities and work with neighboring states because the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT doesn't need to be controlling every aspect of our lives. Your can protect anything you need to as long as you have your liberties.

 

[bentom187]

That's the theory. In fact, that was the plan under the Articles of Confederation. States sued their intra-state grievances in court. Courts were so over worked that states not only had to make laws, they had to enforce them.
As inter-state grievances arose, states realized they had no arbitrating power. Exit Articles of Confederation.

they where there to protect the individual and its your right to sue,its the govt's job to make sure it can hear all the peoples cases,so a solution would be more civil courts.



"None of the folks who die every year from salmonella tainted produce actually "see" the pollution ."



well people die bro,they could have gotten it in any number of ways like cross contamination from meats ect.... even if its regulated stright to your refridgerator its whoever prepares it,their choices could make those regulations irrelivent,and currently people still die every year with the regulations.

"Oh, they care. They're simply managing to undo each others work. One side wants no regulations and is very effectively deregulating industries. Where regulations can't be dissolved, enforcement is defunded. To get back the necessary regulations and enforcement, we'll have to have enough lawmakers willing to vote for regulated industries."


the problem of the regulations is its stated to be used to protect you,but it is used to keep compeditors at bay thats how they gain monopolies,if your the little guy and the big guy's lobby for a new peice of saftey equipment( that may do nothing) to be manditory ,the little guy may not be able to afford it and be forced close shop,eliminating the compitition.
the people who win are the politicians who take the bribes and the monopoly and then all the politicians have to do is cry foul,..."these guys are polluting and we need more regulations"... to rally support for regulations
ensuring their future votes and perpetuating the loss of compeditors.


"The toilet is going to stop up. However, we don't have to go back to the outhouse because we know how to unstop toilets."

if the toilet is inhearently flawed,its a good idea to get a better one.

 

[bentom187]

from RP forums :

In a free market, no one is allowed to pollute his neighbor's land, air, or water. If your property is being damaged, you have every right to sue the
polluter, and government should protect that right. After paying damages, the polluter's production and sale costs rise, making it unprofitable to continue
doing business the same way. Currently, preemptive regulations and pay-to-pollute schemes favor those wealthy enough to perform the regulatory tap dance, while those who own the polluted land rarely receive a quick or just resolution to their problems.
In Congress, I have followed a constitutional approach to environmental action:
* I consistently vote against using tax dollars to subsidize logging in National Forests.
* I am a co-sponsor of legislation designed to encourage the development of alternative and sustainable energy. H.R. 550 extends the investment tax credit to solar energy property and qualified fuel cell property, and H.R. 1772 provides tax credits for the installation of wind energy property.
* Taxpayers for Common Sense named me a "Treasury Guardian" for my work against environmentally-harmful government spending and corporate welfare.
* I am a member of the Congressional Green Scissors Coalition, a bipartisan caucus devoted to ending taxpayer subsidies of projects that harm the environment for the benefit of special interests.

 

[HUGE]

We can look forward to more things like this if Ron Paul is elected. Too many damn mountains in the mountains anyway, if you ask me there's not enough flat land. And clean water is so overrated.

I'll take more of that over more of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3u0FiJbrvHs
Any day

 

[Plant Early]

 

[elykdogg]

LOVE me some ron paul. hes leading in iowa... first the republican nomination... then the presidency... he is the man!

 

[SacredBreh]

Great discussion from most of everyone.....

Great discussion from most of everyone.....

Even those I do not agree with are included in the header....

Who do you think will protect that mountain out my window more.... me or the person who has never seen it? Who can I affect more the elected person in my state or an appointed Federal worker. (No disrespect to anyone's employment) The balance will come from the market's need for the mountain as a mine resource, tourist draw, or other and this goes for all local resources. I would venture more of the 99% are environmentally inclined than the 1%. When our country was new and not as aware no, but now yes. I vacation on that mountain and can't afford to go any where I want unlike those at the top of the economic scale.

I lean toward environmentalist despite the fact my father and grandfather were both loggers. You need to go to Colorado and look at the mountains... 1/2 of standing pine are dead or dying in a majority of the state. The locals, including politicians, wanted to continue harvest w/o clear cuts and diligence to nature but stack logs and fumigate before transport. You see beetles were just starting back then in the early 70s. The decision was made federally to end harvest and pressure placed on local organization to halt harvests. The beetles spread... the forests are dying. All that goes with it... fires, erosion, eco system demise, etc. Would it have been different if people that the problem directly affected were empowered to decide? Hard to say but the alternative sure sucked.

Disco and StonedStoner-- mainly well educated and definitely well worded discussion points but disagree with the inductive or deductive conclusions. You have made me rethink a few things and I would say that is a success for this thread.

I don't remember who said it in the thread but I really liked it: Libertarian= conservative governance and Liberal social agenda. That may not be exact but the idea is there.

Glad to see people are involved and really thinking.

Peace

 

[monkey5]

SacredBreh, I liked your entire post! I will 2nd your: "Glad to see people are invoved and really thinking." ... And of coarse: "Ron Paul 2012!!! ~"Is"~Our only candidate of choice!" monkey5

 

[ion]

consider the story of america....

consider what your own eyes have seen with, at least, the round of buffoons that have "led our great nation" since.....well, you could go back much farther, but lets say since jfk.....

consider how boldly TPTB told you/me/world to fuck off and suck their elite schlongs by inserting W. into the POTUS then Obummer....

if you have an inkling of awareness, you see that W. and Obummer are the same, and/or you see that the peace-prize warrior has made W. seem like a freshman....

consider what you've seen since 9/11, consider the erosion of civil liberties, the bank bailouts, the all-encompassing criminality that composes of all world governments, especially USanians


consider that in light of RP.

what he proposes is against the majority of idealogies that TPTB run/operate by.

SSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOOO.......

A) he will not be elected.
B) if he does, it's a scam......or
C) if he's elected, its a sure sign that they've tagged the good Dr. to ride the US bitch into the ground for the collapse.

definitely NOT a ron paul hater, this aint about him.

and if you are the voting type, by all means vote for him and get everyone to vote for him so that we can at least show ourselves and the rest of the world we are not idiots.

but....

DO NOT expect him to do anything if he gets elected, because he simply cannot.

US.gov(and Zfriends)/new world order/bankers/TPTB are on the last major wealth extraction run-up before they shuffle the deck........the next POTUS will be either a fall guy or someone to compound their wealth-gathering games even further.

long live the american dream

 

[Rumer]

.....

 

[pearlemae]

This is the first electoral season since 1947 that there hasn't been a Bush running for office in the country. The decline in America can be traced directly to Reagan for the start. Ron Paul can't magically legalize pot. The laws can only be changed by Congress. There's no magic wand or executive order he can do that will legalize pot, so get past that one, isn't gonna happen. There is no way Paul will get elected, Gingrich was right his views are to far out for most of the rebulicants to fall for.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Ron Paul Writings Reveal Conspiracy Theories On Slavery, Christmas And Diet Supplements

First Posted: 12/29/11 07:02 PM ET Updated: 12/29/11 07:45 PM ET

WASHINGTON -- Texas Rep. Ron Paul's old newsletters continue to dog the Republican presidential contender, even though he's disavowed the racist and homophobic passages within them. Part of the reason the newsletters may be too big a hurdle for him to overcome is that they reinforce Paul's previous writing and speeches in which he frequent dabbled in conspiracy theories.

In Thursday's The New York Times, James Kirchick highlighted Paul's enthusiastic trips down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theory, black helicopters and trilateral commissions. Kirchick seizes on the fact that so many 9/11 "truthers" have jumped on Paul's campaign -- and the presidential candidate has not repudiated the group's views.

Kirchick wrote:

Paul knows where his bread is buttered. He regularly appears on the radio program of Alex Jones, a vocal 9/11 and New World Order conspiracy theorist based in his home state of Texas.

On Jones's show earlier this month, Paul alleged that the Iranian plot to kill the Saudi ambassador on United States soil was a “propaganda stunt” perpetrated by the Obama administration.

The Huffington Post also examined Paul's previous writings, speeches and interviews. The presidential candidate, who has become a top-tier contender in Iowa, has left a substantial video archive and paper trail -- much of it can be found on a website run by his former chief of staff, Lew Rockwell. Some of the nuggets are predictable. For instance, Paul believed in the anchor-baby conspiracy. He has railed against vaccine mandates.

He described a federal program providing mental-health screenings for school children as "Orwellian," defended Branch Davidian sect leader David Koresh, and saw an insidious conspiracy that brought down Eliot Spitzer.

But in both Paul's writings and in his speeches popping up on YouTube, there are still moments that shock. Here are some of the other highlights of Paul's wacky theories:

At the 1987 Libertarian convention in Seattle, Paul, the party's presidential nominee, gave a speech in which he touched on his theory of a new form of slavery in this country: social security and welfare. "We had a civil war to get rid of slavery," Paul said. "We have substituted that form of slavery with a new form of slavery involving with the social system and the social security and the welfare state and the warfare state." He went on to advocate to "change all that and to release the slaves."

But Paul then takes his slavery theory one step further -- into outright historical revisionism. "The one thing that is very important though -- there has never been in the history of mankind a slave revolt," Paul declared. "That doesn't happen.

What usually happened is that men of principle who are free, free the slaves and then they join the revolution." Had Paul not heard of the Underground Railroad, Nat Turner, or say, the Haitian Revolution?

Paul believed that then-President Bill Clinton's AmeriCorps program was tantamount to liberal enslavement. The program could potentially, according to the congressman's 1997 press release, "further open the way to American teenagers being conscripted into national service for liberal programs like trash cleanup details and other 'social conscience' activities."

Any program, no matter how pragmatic and small, could draw Paul's conspiratorial eye. In a 1998 column for his newsletter, the congressman wrote that a federal needle-exchange program was more than just "immoral." He argued, without citing a single study, that the program would lead to more illicit behavior.

Paul saw the fight over the program as a monumental struggle: "This socialistic approach to sharing health care costs is completely at odds with a society which values freedom. ...This is the socialist's dream. As government assumes the responsibility of paying the costs associated with irresponsible behavior, the more legitimately government can justify its involvement in dictating the behavior."

At times, Paul started to sound more and more like a late-night television quack -- never more so then when he opined in favor of keeping the FDA from regulating dietary supplements. In a piece from 2005, Paul sounded like the perfect pitchman for diet potions, male enhancement pills and muscle-building protein powders, writing:

Millions of Americans take dietary supplements every day, and the numbers are growing as the Baby Boom generation ages. More and more Americans understandably are frustrated with our government-controlled health care system. They have concluded that vitamins, minerals and other supplements might help them stay healthy and less dependent on the system. They use supplements because they can buy them freely at stores and research them freely on the Internet, without government interference in the form of doctors, prescriptions, HMOs and licenses.

Paul practically advocates for a return to medicine shows:

The health nannies insist that many dietary supplements are untested and unproven, and therefore dangerous. But the track record for FDA-approved drugs hardly inspires confidence. In fact, far more Americans have died using approved pharmaceuticals than supplements. Not every dietary supplement performs as claimed, but neither does every FDA drug.

The FDA simply gives people a false sense of security, while crowding out private watchdog groups that might provide truly disinterested consumer information. It fosters a complacent attitude and a lack of personal responsibility among people who assume a government stamp of approval means a drug must be safe, and that they need not study a drug before taking it.

And inevitably, like all good modern conspiracy theorists, Paul may have been one of the first to believe in the "war against Christmas." He wrote on Dec. 30, 2003:

"As we celebrate another Yuletide season, it's hard not to notice that Christmas in America simply doesn't feel the same anymore. Although an overwhelming majority of Americans celebrate Christmas, and those who don't celebrate it overwhelmingly accept and respect our nation's Christmas traditions, a certain shared public sentiment slowly has disappeared. The Christmas spirit, marked by a wonderful feeling of goodwill among men, is in danger of being lost in the ongoing war against religion. ...

Most noticeably, however, the once commonplace refrain of "Merry Christmas" has been replaced by the vague, ubiquitous "Happy Holidays." But what holiday? Is Christmas some kind of secret, a word that cannot be uttered in public? Why have we allowed the secularists to intimidate us into downplaying our most cherished and meaningful Christian celebration?"

Of course, Paul didn't have an answer for that.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...nspiracy-theories_n_1175275.html?ref=politics

Hey, maybe it's because lots of Americans see Christmas as age old pagan tradition, not some celebration of divinity.

IMO, the pagan tradition crowd is nothing to fear. Even Billo gets higher ratings with the "war on Christmas" baloney but it's nothing more than pointing the finger at difference.

Kinda odd that the guy who preaches freedom doesn't seem to like being bid "Happy Holidays". I'm old enough to remember the pre militia-fever days and "Happy Holidays" was simply a contraction of "Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year."

Who would have thought such mundane verbiage would manifest into a war on Christmas? Common sense might suggest that the many non-Christians in society might keep the celebration but lose the other part.

Sounds like some folks' "freedom" is more free than others. Or it's just a game to preclude, "Send me a donation."

 

[itisme]

Ron Paul is a man of principles. He has served his country for decades and is easily the cleanest politician on the planet. All you have is a few statements he has some conspiracy theories.............WOW, You people attacking Dr. Paul are pathetic and thanks to Dr. Paul's honest approach that is all you got! He is the answer to the USA problems.

some of the USA Issues
1. Economy- Audit and End FED after we take our cash back.
2. End unjust wars saving trillions - Bringing troops home from all over the world.
3. End lobbyists influence in FED, EPA, FDA, & DEA etc and END WHERE NEEDED
4. FREE 1 million plus non violent victim-less criminals - Whatever that is! Saving billions every year
5. End the oxymoronically named Patriot Act - It allows our President to execute an American citizen and hide the fact.

RON PAUL 2012

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I wouldn't consider it an attack. Folks questioned associations with Obama and this is no different. Obama eventually had to doff his long form over conspiracy theories, even after being vetted by the same State Dept that vetted every predecessor.

It's not like anybody's drawing personal pejoratives, it's just information. IMO, Paul's economic ideas are enough to keep the center from voting for the guy. The newsletters are questionable enough in their messages and associations. But the fact his newsletters were also his donations vehicle lends added dimension.

 

[Scottish Research]

No, No, No, they all fucking suck! It's one party dudes. And, none of them really care about "our" cause, unless they can get reelected supporting it.

You have to remember that our presidents only spend about 50% of the time running for reelection.

I mean how long has this fucking charade been going on?? I'm so tired of politics! They are all worthless!

Sorry to burst your bubbles but them are the facts.

R.Fortune

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

It's not just the presidency, it's every national elective office. Citizens United will make state races no different. Instead of expecting one man to float in a cesspool of money, the system needs to take measures to purge big money from it's grasp.

Any president's changes are limited to the system. The system can be changed but much of it has to go through Congress. Dr. Paul has delivered many impassioned speeches on the House floor over the years. But he'll need a mandate from the voters to get the degree of changes he wants. Obama netted 9 million more votes than McCain yet the opposition managed to water down or altogether nix every major proposal.

On the bright side, a Paul presidency might be a good demonstration of the limited powers of the presidency, how these limitations are manipulated and where presidential powers are superseded by Congress and or existing law.

 

[megayields]

Ron Paul is a total tool, did you happen to hear about his racist newsletters he wrote in the past, hell makes the KKK look decent!