Rock Phosphate in Tea

[Microbeman]

You can useSoft Rock Phosphate in a tea.

CT s stuck on the bacteria contained in the tea......Compost TEA.

You can add RP to a Nutrient tea.

No offense CT but we do use them as a ´soil soak`. By giving our that information with out the separation in the tea type is confusing some of these guys.

And a certain % of the RP is soluble. Like guanos.....5% is soluble and the rest is delivered as a soil soak and added to the soil substrate as a type of top dressing.......beneficial to the plants.

Nice link VG
V

'In my opinion' it is a little unfortunate that the terminology has evolved as such. More accurate descriptions might be 'nutrient tea = nutrient solution or organic substances mixed in water'
'compost tea = extraction and multiplication of compost microbes or compost microbe multiplication'

The word 'tea' often seems to bring about confusion.

 

[vonforne]

'In my opinion' it is a little unfortunate that the terminology has evolved as such. More accurate descriptions might be 'nutrient tea = nutrient solution or organic substances mixed in water'
'compost tea = extraction and multiplication of compost microbes or compost microbe multiplication'

The word 'tea' often seems to bring about confusion.

I have to agree there MM.

Nutrient solution

and

Compost TEA

That should clear up some confusion. Thanks for the clarification MM.

V

 

[Cannasseur]

Don't overdo it if hoping for mycorrhizal infection as there is evidence too much P can inhibit mycorrhizal growth.

Sorry to stray from the topic at hand. But MM, at what point will the presence of too much P set the fungi into dormancy?

 

[Yankee Grower]

there is evidence too much P can inhibit mycorrhizal growth.

That's my understanding. Top feeding, like bottle feeding, high amounts of P will piss off your fungi and will actually be counterproductive. A friend also said certain 'forms' of P cause problems like anything over 0-8-0 or maybe it was 0-10-0 would cause problems if mixed in globally or top fed. A way to get around this issue is to use use high P spikes where there's a concentrated source of P instead of global additions. Roots will concentrate around the spikes. Anyway that's a whole other discussion.

 

[VerdantGreen]

Interesting. Do you have access to the paper to see if there is something to it?

unfortunately not, but there are quite a few other references i found with searching that all seem to point to the general idea that citric acid will make 'inorganic' P available from Rock Phosphate and the like.

 

[VerdantGreen]

another link - this one is a pdf
http://www.scielo.cl/pdf/gbot/v60n1/art09.pdf

heres another extract

http://www.nature.com/nbt/journal/v18/n4/full/nbt0400_450.html

 

[Microbeman]

Sorry to stray from the topic at hand. But MM, at what point will the presence of too much P set the fungi into dormancy?

I really do not know and it is difficult to estimate exact percentages of nutrients in organics. I just practice minimal amounts and trust natural processes (to a large extent) to manage the outcome.

 

[vonforne]

I really do not know and it is difficult to estimate exact percentages of nutrients in organics. I just practice minimal amounts and trust natural processes (to a large extent) to manage the outcome.

Don´t you measure the amount of Bacterial and Fungal populations before and after? And keep track of the amounts of P given?

What if you gave it just liquid amounts then would it be possible to keep track of both?

Or is it to complicated to keep track of such measurements? Or impossible?

V

 

[Microbeman]

Don´t you measure the amount of Bacterial and Fungal populations before and after? And keep track of the amounts of P given?

What if you gave it just liquid amounts then would it be possible to keep track of both?

Or is it to complicated to keep track of such measurements? Or impossible?

V

Well, we are talking about mycorrhizal fungi infection of roots in the soil so it does not entail simply placing a drop of water on a microscope slide as when assaying compost teas or soil/compost (slurry) samples. When doing that we are looking at the ratio/diversity of bacteria/archaea, protozoa and usually fungi imperfecti or basidiomycota type fungal hyphae (some of which are ectomycorrhizal). One could use the method you hypothesized to track some effect of P on the development of these organisms which may be interesting

BUT

To ascertain endomycorrhizal fungi infection of roots one must take some root samples and examine them for infection by the fungi, which means that the fungal hyphae has basically grown into some of the root tissue cells. Admittedly this is far from my area of expertise; but I'm workin on it.

 

[vonforne]

Well, we are talking about mycorrhizal fungi infection of roots in the soil so it does not entail simply placing a drop of water on a microscope slide as when assaying compost teas or soil/compost (slurry) samples. When doing that we are looking at the ratio/diversity of bacteria/archaea, protozoa and usually fungi imperfecti or basidiomycota type fungal hyphae (some of which are ectomycorrhizal). One could use the method you hypothesized to track some effect of P on the development of these organisms which may be interesting

BUT

To ascertain endomycorrhizal fungi infection of roots one must take some root samples and examine them for infection by the fungi, which means that the fungal hyphae has basically grown into some of the root tissue cells. Admittedly this is far from my area of expertise; but I'm workin on it.

Would it be possible to measure the SIZE of the fungal hyphae to determine whether or not the P in the substrate is restricting the growth of the hyphae? Or its infected amounts wit the roots?

V

 

[Yankee Grower]

Would it be possible to measure the SIZE of the fungal hyphae to determine whether or not the P in the substrate is restricting the growth of the hyphae? Or its infected amounts wit the roots?

V

If you send a soil sample to Dr. Ingham one of the parameters they measure is fungal diameter. It's been about a year since I talked to peeps in the lab so a bit fuzzy on the details.

 

[Microbeman]

Would it be possible to measure the SIZE of the fungal hyphae to determine whether or not the P in the substrate is restricting the growth of the hyphae? Or its infected amounts wit the roots?

V

Sure, measuring the hyphal diameter is simple and as mentioned concerning the organism diversity this would be interesting to see the effects of P on the hyphae. But the real crux is to determine whether the hyphae you are measuring is of an endomycorrhizal species.

 

[Microbeman]

If you send a soil sample to Dr. Ingham one of the parameters they measure is fungal diameter. It's been about a year since I talked to peeps in the lab so a bit fuzzy on the details.

The SFI lab does offer a service to check for endomycorrhizal infection. I'm working to get up to speed on this but I'd like to add the identification of the species.

 

[Metatron]

I'm thinking now since their is a difference between nutrient tea and ACT is it beneficial or detrimental to brew these two together or separate?

Or maybe feed with your solution in one watering and the following watering use ACT to really activate your last feeding?

 

[vonforne]

Sure, measuring the hyphal diameter is simple and as mentioned concerning the organism diversity this would be interesting to see the effects of P on the hyphae. But the real crux is to determine whether the hyphae you are measuring is of an endomycorrhizal species.

So you must first identify it then measure it. Ok I see your point with that.

Thanks Professor.

V

 

[dethmetul]

I'm thinking now since their is a difference between nutrient tea and ACT is it beneficial or detrimental to brew these two together or separate?

Or maybe feed with your solution in one watering and the following watering use ACT to really activate your last feeding?

This is sort of an interesting question..

Am always curious which to feed first or if things can be combined before adding, etc.

Is there a preferred method when applying compost tea in addition to something else, such as a nutrient solution. Seperate? One before the other?

 

[Microbeman]

I brewed up 1200 gallons of ACT (aerated compost tea) checked it microscopically to ensure it was highly active, mixed in 5 gallons of fish hydrolysate, then checked it again. I observed about 30 to 40% reduction in active microbes. Since then I've always applied nutrients separately either a day or more prior to applying ACT or a day or so after. Bear in mind that this was just one test. Fish hydrolysate was mixed in at 0.42%

 

[Mud Man]

Doyou use RO water,, or do you let TAP de-chlorinate,, sorry if this is a dumb question.,?>

 

[Mud Man]

fish bone is my next item on the to do list. what is your application rate for fish bone in your tea?

TIA

M-

Fish Bone made my Teas smell Funny which threw me off as i use my nose as most to check..
i am sure my Tea was fine, but i have not had the balls to add it again as it 100% changed smell from just Bubbling EWC and Fresh Compost.
I like adding Liquid Fish sometimes and Seaweed extract seems to work well for me, still NOOBING on the AACT's,,
love the thread..

 

[Iron_Lion]

I didnt want to start a new thread for this one question but while you all are on the subject of rock phosphate, could anyone tell me how much is adequate per gallon of recycled soil mix?

Last batch I mixed up I did 1 tbs RP per gallon of soil less mix and I cant for the life of me figure out how I came up with that amount.