ridomil for hydro herpes.

[avant gardener]

i'm sick of dealing with the hydro herpes.
pythium, brown algae, or cyanobacteria,
whatever the culprit pathogen may be
(there's a lot of debate and contention on this point).

i have tried everything short of nukes:

my environmentals are on lock.
ambient never goes below 60 at night or above 80 during the day.
my res is always between 60 and 70
(usually 65, but the pump cycles cause a little fluctuation).
pH target is 5.8 but never higher than 6.0 or below 5.5.

fixes that didn't cut it:
bio- zho, aquashield, roots excel, EWC tea, this-zyme, that-zyme,
blah blah blah.
sterile- h2o2, sm-90, physan 20, bleach.
DM Zone worked for awhile, but the slime has developed a resistance, even when I use it in rotation.

it's not a hygiene issue either.
everything is immaculate and sterile at the start of a run.

i'm ready for final solutions.
ridomil seems to be the prescribed fix.
it is not expressly labeled for use in hydroponics,
but i understand it is suitable.
can anyone tell me the proper dilution ratio
and how long i leave this stuff in?

i'm open to other suggestions too.
long as you're not going to tell me to burn my system and switch to dirt.
you guys are about as helpful as the people who would yell
"Get a horse" to folks whose model t ford broke down
a hundred years ago.

thanks gang.

 

[shuswap]

i have been in your shoes for the last few months,i have ridomil gold and the usage i use is 5ml ridomil for 30 gallons of res,but if to late ridomil does not help either.i am now running a sterile res with dutch master zone and using RO water,from the reading i have done on it most of the spores are in our water source,this is where im at now.

 

[taslicker]

same as beer

same as beer

i agree with shuswap its probably bugs in your water. so you can steralize all you like, it wont stop happening.

i had the same problem with my beer making.
bugs in the water.
they didnt effect my Hydro because i filtered and boiled all the water in the buckets.
If you cant afford an RO water filter, just use a supermarket jug filter and then boil the water.
that gives your water a physical clean and a sterilization.
which is what the RO does but in one integrated, automatic and more expensive system.

hope that helps.

 

[Aerohead]

If the sterile rez didnt work for you, or SM-90 didn't work, you are missing something.. Both of those options are fool proof..

I recommend re-evaluating you perfect water parameters

R/O water with SM-90 is bullet proof IMO, no slime and stark white roots every time..

[/IMG]


2C

 

[Midnight]

DWC Root Slime Cure aka How to Breed Beneficial Microbes



When a clear snot forms on roots in a DWC, and the normal course of treatment for root disease doesn't work, you probably have something called brown slime algae, which actually isn't algae at all, but a cyanobacteria. It loves oxygen and doesn't need light to grow. It doesn't care if your res is chilled or not. Safe levels of H202 slows it a bit but doesn't cure it. It can show up for DWC growers for no apparent reason even after years of successful grows. Once it shows up it's often a nightmare to get rid of. It WILL eventually spread to other DWC tubs, although it almost never gains a foothold on older well developed healthy plants/roots.

Several root conditions will cause a slimy build up; doesn't mean you have the brown slime. Common root disease is almost always caused by improper res conditions, and they improve greatly when those conditions are corrected. This isn't true of the slime. When to suspect brown slime algae is when you are doing everything right and still can't get rid of it. People who get this try the normal stuff... More bubbles in the water, cool res temps, and h202 treatments. The slime may appear to be gone at first, but comes back strong in as little as 12-36 hours. It starts out subtle like a clear coating of mucus on the roots with no odor. Plants often still appear healthy for a while, but all root production stops. In a very short time it will cover the entire root base and become thicker and sometimes turns yellow. Eventually it strangles the roots which causes pythium to set in, and at that point turns brown and finally has an odor.

The treatment is to clean up and sterilize the root base, and then populate the water with beneficial microbes. Simply running a continuous sterilizing agent such as SM-90, Zone, ect will almost certainly end with the slime as the winner. Some people have had luck running bleach or physan 20 continuously in the water, but most do not want there plants soaking in these particular chemicals. Making a microbe tea is cheap and easy, and IMO the proper way to fight this slime in a perpetual DWC garden.

Clean up the root base as well as possible. Best thing to do, if you can, is hold the plant over the sink and use the sprayer to vigorously rinse the roots, trying to get all the dead roots and gunk to slough off. It's OK to spray 3% h2o2 solution directly onto the roots at this point. It's also okay to give the dying roots a slight tug to see if they come off. Now let the roots soak in a strong h202 solution, or a mixture of whatever sterilizing agent you have. Physan 20 works great. This is a good time to sterilize any equipment and give the res a good scrub. After a few hours, no more than 12, of soaking in the solution rinse the roots really really well again, prepare a fresh res, and inoculate the res with beneficial microbes. Wait another 12 hours before adding nutes.

Once the slime is gone be sure to practice proper res maintenance, which includes keeping any type of organic material out of the res. Trying to sterilize the res is often a losing battle. In fact, since most hydro products fail to kill this stuff, when you sterilize the water you are removing all competing microbes except this one. There are people who use RO filters and then run their water through a UV sterilizer and still end up with the slime. The answer always seems to be beneficial microbes.

Below is my previous introduction to preparing and applying a microbe tea.


In DWC the roots sit in water constantly putting them at huge risk for disease. Some people have great luck using nothing at all. Others find sterilizing products keep their roots white, but a few of us have found that even with proper res maintenance and doing everything right, we still get a slimy build up on the roots. This is when a microbe tea can really make a difference by robbing the slime of housing, food, and actually attacking it.

By making a compost tea with a diverse selection of microbes you will have a super tonic for you res that will ward off nasty gunk and build up while at the same time keeping your roots stimulated and growing. Best of all it can be made for just pennies per batch.

Ok so we wont be starting from scratch. You have to buy a few products. But instead of using the products directly in the res, you will be breeding them in a tea. This way, you can use a fraction of the regular dose and make your products last much longer. Plus, you will end up with a freshly active tea that is more diverse than anything you can buy on the market.

Aquashield ($12) The product composition consists of: Bacillus subtilis, Paenibacillus polymxa, Bacillus circulans, and Bacillus amyloliquefaciens. This gives you a base population of beneficial bacteria. (Aquashield can be replaced by any inoculation that contains bacillus bacteria.)

ZHO Powder ($10) The product composition consists of: Glomus intradices, Glomus aggregatum, Glomus etunicatum, Glomus mosseae, Trichoderma harzianum, and Trichoderma koningii. This gives you a base populartion of beneficial fungi. (ZHO can be replaced by any inoculation that contains myco fungi)

Ancient Forest EWC ($14) - Soil amendment provides a high diversity of microorganisms, including more than 35,000 species of bacteria and over 5,000 species of fungi. (AF can be replaced by any earth worm casting)

EDIT* Mycogrow soluble is the cheapest and most diverse inoculant we have found. It can replace everything here except the ancient forest.


The recipe is really simple. Start with non-chlorinated water. I make 2 gallons at a time, but you can easily adjust the additives for whatever amount you wish to make. Now put the water into a bucket and throw in a couple air stones. The more air the better. You want the water to be almost turbulent from the bubbles. Now add 15-30ml of aquashield and about 1/4-1/2 scoop of the ZHO powder. You will be breeding these into the billions so it doesn't really matter how much you start with. Now take an old sock or pantyhose and fill it with about 2 handfuls of EWC. Tie off the sock and place it in the water above an air stone, or better yet, feed an air stone down into the sock itself. If you want, you can just throw the EWC directly into the water and strain it out later with cheesecloth. Next add about a tablespoon of molasses to wake up the microbes and give them something to eat. We will only be feeding the microbes in this tea; never add food for the microbes to the res itself. It's okay if the bennies in the res starve. You will be replacing them every few days. Now let the tea bubble at room tempeture for 48 hours. It can be used after 24, but will be more active and diverse at 48. You can now store the tea in the fridge where it will stay fresh for about 10 days. Once it starts to go bad it will develop an odor. If you ever detect an odor from your tea, throw it out and make a new batch.

Initially, add about 1 cup to your res for every gallon of water, and then add 1 cup total every 3 days after. Your water might get a little cloudy but your roots will stay white and stimulated. When you use tea and practice proper res maintenance you can feel confident your roots will be healthy. By breeding the microbes this way your products should last about 5x longer. Once you have eradicated slime and simply want protection from future outbreaks, adjust the tea dosage to 1 cup per 10 gallons.

If you are interested in why the tea works, or what products you may use for substitution, continue reading the rest of the thread. It is a journey I took with others to learn a great more about the tea. If you want to see how I use this tea in a cloner, jump to here.

***In an attempt to address frequent issues which bloat the thread

You can substitute just about any product you want. Any EWC will give you a good base of microbes. Any product or combo of products which contain mycos, bacillus, and trichoderma will do the trick. Don't worry about matching my exact ingredients.


If you notice a dark sort of slime form after you treat with tea, stay the course. As long as you see new shoots growing you are on your way to recovery. The after-slime is harmless and will not grow or stall roots.

Do not use tea with h202, sm-90, Zone or any type of sterilizing product. Do not filter tea beyond 400 microns.

If you run a system with sprayers or pumps, you may want to make your tea with mycogrow hydro mix only. (as opposed to mycogrow soluble) It contains only mycos which shouldn't cause clogging. However, no one has reported clogging from using regular tea.


Take care of impropoer res conditions FIRST. Even the tea will not save you from disease if you do not have enough oxygen or proper temperatures. Res water should be no higher than 75f with bennies. Air pump should be at least 1wt per gallon. Light proof your buckets!

 

[gettogro]

the above method is fool proof

 

[greenwithenvy]

I am running the entire DM line up. with one, add.27, silica, potash and zone. You said not to use the zone but are all the other products good to use with the tea? Thanks GWE

 

[greenwithenvy]

repost: I am running the entire DM line up. with one, add.27, silica, potash and zone. You said not to use the zone but are all the other products good to use with the tea? Thanks GWE

 

[tenthirty]

UV sterilizer on the RO system, UV sterilizer in the rez and H2o2. That did it for me.

 

[Juzam1]

UV sterilizer on the RO system, UV sterilizer in the rez and H2o2. That did it for me.

Care to share where the sterilizers were sourced? Did you previously have brown slime?

 

[avant gardener]

ok so...

DAY ZERO:

I had it pretty bad.

DAY TWO AFTER RIDOMIL:

the fire extinguisher provides contrast.

it's too soon to draw hard conclusions,
but it looks like this stuff may have saved my ass.

more to follow.

 

[Aerohead]

the above method is fool proof

Ironic, the above method is extremely complicated compared to a sterile rez, A far cry from fool proof... I am sure the method works but it's not for me....

 

[avant gardener]

Ridomil + 4 days—

here are the same two plants:

a two days ago they looked so poorly that i was convinced they were only good for educational purposes.

but they're showing nice green top-growth now. we'll wait and see.

 

[SeaMaiden]

Midnight's banned now too??? We need a site for these folks, too many who contribute very good information manage to piss someone off enough to be banned, then the rest of us suffer the loss for it. I am bereft!

In any event, avant, have you scoped the root tissue at all, pre- and post-treatment with the Ridomil or other products you've tried? Of course, scoping is one thing, identification another. And then stains, etcetera, might be necessary...

In any event, I posted in your other thread, this is fascinating especially when you mention the lack of silica, which is often blamed when aquarists, especially saltwater, experience what we usually call a diatom bloom (brown, covers EVERYTHING, but does not create thick mats that may form bubbles the way cyano does), and the 'fix' is often to reduce silica in the water column.

 

[Weird]

for what its worth

sm-90 is safe for use WITH beneficial bacteria

it inhibit anaerobic bacteria (bad stuff) but not aerobic bacteria such as beneficial such as Bacillus subtilis

sterile water is great

beneficial bacteria offer other benefits however such as drought resistance

the maker of sm 90 nuritlife makes a beneficial package that also manages the krebs cycle in hydro, buffers your ph and makes nutrient more available reducing the required ppm of feed for like results and its s compatible with sm-90

its called biocat and its organic

http://www.nutrilifeproducts.com/products/supplements/organic/bioCat/

i have found great success using hormone based products on plants in hydro that had heavy rot like yours

i think the last one i used was jump start

 

[avant gardener]

for what its worth

sm-90 is safe for use WITH beneficial bacteria

it inhibit anaerobic bacteria (bad stuff) but not aerobic bacteria such as beneficial such as Bacillus subtilis

sterile water is great

beneficial bacteria offer other benefits however such as drought resistance

the maker of sm 90 nuritlife makes a beneficial package that also manages the krebs cycle in hydro, buffers your ph and makes nutrient more available reducing the required ppm of feed for like results and its s compatible with sm-90

its called biocat and its organic

http://www.nutrilifeproducts.com/products/supplements/organic/bioCat/

i have found great success using hormone based products on plants in hydro that had heavy rot like yours

i think the last one i used was jump start

noted and agreed.
i don't like using shit like this, but it had gotten to be do or die.
once i get a little breathing room, i'll figure out alternatives.
hopefully this was a one time affair.

started throwing h202 and sm-90 in again.
even is it doesn't do the trick, the stuff smells delicious.

in any case, here's day 6:

foliage is starting to come in right again.

even got enough new growth to top her.

 

[cyat]

wow amazing recovery!

I looked it up and it is used for food crops

 

[ogenko]

that ridomil looks to be working real nice for you ag
i have been deeling with same issues and my local hydro shop guy
recommended regen-a-root with hygrozyme
i got them to try them out , but if it doesnt work then im gonna try that ridomil
thanks for the info

 

[havesum2]

So this may be a dumb question.
Do you have to keep using it forever or will it eventually kill all the herpes u got? lol

 

[avant gardener]

So this may be a dumb question.
Do you have to keep using it forever or will it eventually kill all the herpes u got? lol

i don't know. am figuring this all out as i go along. next run, i'll see what happens. if it's the same old same old, i'm hitting them right away and using this as a preventative from here on out. otherwise i'll just be glad to have it on hand.

that ridomil looks to be working real nice for you ag
i have been deeling with same issues and my local hydro shop guy
recommended regen-a-root with hygrozyme
i got them to try them out , but if it doesnt work then im gonna try that ridomil
thanks for the info

let me save you $40 and a whole lot of trouble:
DON'T DON'T DON'T USE HYGROZYME IF YOU'VE GOT ANY KIND OF ROOT SLIME!!! the cats at the hydro shops push this shit so hard, but in my experience (and that of anyone i know who's tried it), HZ is like a shot of steroids for the slime. read the other root slime threads. that stuff is bad news.