Remove Fan Leaves veg (side-by-side request!)

[lost in a sea]

Of course it's not just defol that produces a plant like this, but without the defol she would NOT have weighed 10 zips.

how you can say that with such certainty im not sure,, did he do a side by side with a non defoliated plant ?

grown in hydro with lots of space like that under a 600 you would expect pretty good results without,,, maybe that guy is bang on the money with they way he grows,, for me it doesnt help,,

looks alot like serious or magus's genetics that girl

 

[grassott]

I don't think he done a side by side with a non-defol'd plant because he grew non defolied plants before and he knew he'd be wasting his time. (Not that I'm trying to answer for him mind).

Have you done a side by side with a non defol'd plant?

 

[lost in a sea]

yeah i knew he wouldnt have done that,,, why change what is obviously working?,,,i was thinking about hydro that since the plant is presented more of the time with any and all the nutrients it needs then surely light could become the limiting factor if too many leaves are removed,, as well as co2 without proper ventilation obviously,,,

yeah ive done a few side by sides with various techniques since i started growing ive done exactly that with some gonzo #1 clones, wr clones, some ssh's when i grew that out for a year and messed about , and some hazes thinking about it when i was growing all random hazes for a long period a few years ago,, there were specific reasons why i tried it with these crosses,,, and some others as well im sure over the years,, if the plants were placed in non biased position relative to all the factors (fan/light/temp/crowding etc) then i found just a slight trade in quality/quantity,,, maybe if i was running 50+ plants and had my ass on the line i would do every last thing to get a pure ray of light on every last nuggie to know i did all i could to make as much doe as possible.

i never did it in veg though,,,

 

[grassott]

Keep it going my friend.
We need experiments like yours. Less talk more canna science on the making

Thank you friend. It's nice to receive positive comments like these from time to time. Experimenting is a lonely business lol

 

[dankhoe417]

Out of pure fear to go too extreme, I have just been removing one large fan leaf per node and leaving its offset. Works wonders at opening the canopy on this Big Bud grow. But they grow like gangbusters. Hate to think of how dense it would be left alone. Doing it only in bloom though. Clip, separate, clip, support, etc.

 

[grassott]

Out of pure fear to go too extreme, I have just been removing one large fan leaf per node and leaving its offset. Works wonders at opening the canopy on this Big Bud grow. But they grow like gangbusters. Hate to think of how dense it would be left alone. Doing it only in bloom though. Clip, separate, clip, support, etc.

I like "Steady Eddies" I really do. You got big bud? I always wanted to try that strain. One day I'm gonna try my defol technique with the big bud just coz I like the name of that herb.

IMHO if you got a few grows under your belt and you're not sure about defol, try it on a clone or two when that clone reaches about 8" in height. If it fucks up it'll only cost you a clone or two. No biggie. Experiment. That's what I'm doing at the moment with my White Rhinos & Shiva Shanti II's. Experimenting's good fun too. Hope this helps

 

[Grow Tech]

HawaiianGrown sorta touched on it but something I didnt see talked about much in the last 3 pages was...Air Flow
Removing some leaves can help that factor which can help reduce pest & disease issues. I'm not advocating ( or not not advocating) defoliation...Just saying that theres more at play than light penetration / adsorbtion

 

[budelight]

Looks like the jury is still out on this one... with 93 votes. Split right down the middle!!

Keep up the great conversations all. Thank you for talking about the science and physics behind it, i believe that is how you learn.

Observation and rationalization!

Cheers,
Budelight

 

[bock, bock]

Light passes right through the fans to the buds below, so they really are not blocking the buds immediately below them from receiving light.

I'm not too sure about this. I have seen little buds that are DIRECTLY under a big fan leaf that are noticably less formed than other similar buds, and lighter in colour, then, when you trim the fan leaf, the bud starts to burst with joy.

Also, I wouldn't select either poll option, I only trim a few fan leaves here and there. Maybe you should add that to the poll? I think it would be the more popular choice. It would be interesting to see.

 

[grassott]

Happy plant. Just before defolied.

Sad plant. Just been defolied.

An even happier plant, just six days after her first defoli.

So far in this experiment I've made these observations. Just one week after her first defoli she's bounced back stronger than before. Notice the beautiful structure forming. Notice the lower budsites developing. Normally I'd chop off the lower branches, thinking that it's just gonna be popcorn anyway. During this experiment I no longer need to cut off anymore budsites. To get this strucure going I also lolly pop. Just a few lower branhces being removed earlier on, about a week before her first defol. This aids watering (I hate it when I accidentally splash water on the lower leaves).

My whole garden 6 days after their first major defoli...

Remember when they all looked like this? A sorry sight I must admit. When Britney Spears shaved off her hair she looked a sore sight too if you dig me.

And look at them now. Dam near fully recovered. They'll be going in hempy buckets tonight and due for their second major defol in about a week's time, after they've leafed up a bit.

 

[C21H30O2]

Another defol'd plant grown under 600w. Not sure of the strain but she weighed in at 10 zips dried.

Of course it's not just defol that produces a plant like this, but without the defol she would NOT have weighed 10 zips.

In saying that, defoliation MUST be researched properly before you give it a try. Oh, and DO NOT defol if your plants have gone into flower without any defoliation in veg. This advice was given by the guy who defols religiously.

Only 10 zips per 600w. That's less than .5 grams per watt. Not the most impressive yield I have seen...

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

There is already a thread on this.
Bad idea.
The leaves are there for a reason.
Millions of years of evolution prove it.

this is right. the leaves are the food factories. the buds dont need light. the leaves do. so you are better off trimming the inner leaves and inter nodes right off. determine how much canopy penetration your bulb gets. with most strains anything not with in the proper range not getting sufficient light can be trimmed, but don't trim much after 14 days into flower cycle.

 

[St3ve]

This thread is kind of a rip off. I was expecting to see a nice side by side experiment but its nothing but another leaf or no leaf thread.

 

[GrowForIt]

the leaves are the food factories. the buds dont need light. the leaves do.

If this was true why are the lower buds on a bushy plant a lot lighter in color and a lot airier? I've heard many time of people cutting the top buds off first and letting the lower ones ripen up. It's my belief the buds do indeed need light, and the results from the method I use to grow back this up as well. If buds didn't need light scroggers would push the tops under the screen and pull the fans to the top.

Another good reason to selectively defoliate that hasn't been mentioned yet is humidity, less leaves = less transpiration = lower humidity..

Plus you have mainly trichome covered trim at harvest time and you can dispose of the leaves you remove during veg and early flower in small amounts over time.

Defoliation isn't for everyone, but it's working out great for me.

Peace...

 

[grassott]

OK I got some good news for the leaf lovers, but very bad news for me. My girls are having a period or summat by the looks of things. I xplanted them into hempy buckets yesterday, only to check them this morning and their leaves are as droopy as hell.

On top of that, I ran outta perlite so instead of 6 buckets I used 5. Gotta get some more perlite ASAP! I got tonnes of vermiculite though.

I'm not quite sure what to conclude the excessive droopiness to. FrindInDeed, does this happen when you defoli your girls? I mean, I don't understand it. They seemed to be recovering nicely after I defol'd em but now they look pissed at me. Perhaps best to never assume things I suppose. I just hope they recover

 

[grassott]

This thread is kind of a rip off. I was expecting to see a nice side by side experiment but its nothing but another leaf or no leaf thread.

Side by side in a small grow space. The non-defolied plant would soon shade out the defolied plant in a fortnight. This would be unfair.

I too wanna find out the polava of defoli, so I decided to conduct my own experiment to see if it works and in my opinion, comparing a non-defoli run with a defoli run is way much better than a side by side.

 

[bock, bock]

I am not sure grassot, but, maybe trimming them heavily and then transplanting them soon after is a bit too much. A bit of a double shock?

 

[lost in a sea]

OK I got some good news for the leaf lovers, but very bad news for me. My girls are having a period or summat by the looks of things. I xplanted them into hempy buckets yesterday, only to check them this morning and their leaves are as droopy as hell.

On top of that, I ran outta perlite so instead of 6 buckets I used 5. Gotta get some more perlite ASAP! I got tonnes of vermiculite though.

I'm not quite sure what to conclude the excessive droopiness to. FrindInDeed, does this happen when you defoli your girls? I mean, I don't understand it. They seemed to be recovering nicely after I defol'd em but now they look pissed at me. Perhaps best to never assume things I suppose. I just hope they recover

no offence but are you just really high or have you not been growing that long ?

plants arent something you can apply a single rule to all of them,,, it takes a long time to understand and read the various differences,,, defoliating is a potential tool under certain circumstances, but it is far from a general rule that can be applied to all ganja plants and carried out in a specific methodical way,, as you get through flowering you take off what you have to (or feel you need to) in the canopy to get the best results,, it just depends on the genetics,,,

keep on growing,,, there is alot to learn as the decades roll by,,

 

[mrwags]

This thread is kind of a rip off. I was expecting to see a nice side by side experiment but its nothing but another leaf or no leaf thread.

Yes sir and I concur. This thread will be closed for a bit until we are able to actually see a side by side. Like most threads anymore an open discussion among adults has proven to be unattainable.

For future reference,this sum-forum is for actual work not open discussions. I took it for I know first hand the ability of a few good pictures to be able to get your point across without the use of words so until we can see that here this baby is going back into the oven.


Have A Good Week
Mr.Wags