Remote CFL Ballasts..... Who has the skinny on these?

[DonkeyPunch]

Yes, AND there are also 55w Pl-L lamps with a different type of base sold over there as well. Make sure you're getting the lamps with the 2G11 bases. They'll work just dandy

Thanks.

I am thinking about going with 440 watts in a 2 foot by 2 foot area. I had originally planned for more light and 6 square feet, but after calculating my needs pot wise, figure this will do it for my wife and me. Figure if I have 16 plants, and they all yield at least 7 grams - this will give me a QP every 3 months, which is plenty for my wife and myself. (Will be cloning In the same aero system I will flower in)

I am also still considering a 250 watt HPS up top, and a 55 watt horizontally mounted on all 4 sides to side light the plants. Thinking it might be the best of both worlds, for only 30 watts more...

UGH I hate making choices like this... Maybe I will just go with the 8 55 watt PL-L, and then later if I am not happy with yield, upgrade it to the 250, and keep 220 of the PL-Ls... The big thing I like about the CFL pics, are how frosty they are.... That's what makes me want to do this.

 

[Lord Doobie]

Maybe I missed this but...how many lumens from PL-L bulbs do I need to flower 2 plants in a PC server tower? Is there such a thing as overkill or is it always the more, the merrier?

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Maybe I missed this but...how many lumens from PL-L bulbs do I need to flower 2 plants in a PC server tower? Is there such a thing as overkill or is it always the more, the merrier?

Anything over about 5,000 lumens per square foot isn't going to do much without CO2.

Past 7,000 lumens I'd imagine running into issues if you don't run CO2.

 

[Lord Doobie]

huh? CO2?
Aerohead is running a rated 14000 lumens with PL-L bulbs in a PC server tower and thinks he can go higher
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=117463
you can skip from the first page to the last

 

[Hydro-Soil]

huh? CO2?
Aerohead is running a rated 14000 lumens with PL-L bulbs in a PC server tower and thinks he can go higher
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=117463
you can skip from the first page to the last

14,000 divided by 1.4 square feet = 10,000 lumens per square foot.

Yeah, they're going to have a lot of extra lumens. They won't see anywhere near the performance they're expecting. Don't take my word for it though, Knna has forgotten more about lighting and what plants can/can't do with it than I'll ever learn in my life. If he says over 7,000 per square foot is useless without CO2, I don't see 10,000 being much better.

In other words, they'd get (about) the same harvest and healthier plants if they dropped back to around 7K lumens per foot.

 

[Tanuvan]

Hydro is correct! All you will get past 7K lumens is heat issues without CO2. Yield not only has to do with lumens per square foot, but the actual square foot as well. In other words...your limiting factor in a pc case for example becomes the actual square feet involved regardless of the extra lumens.

About the only way to get around that is maximize vertical height...which again in a pc case would be improbable.

 

[DonkeyPunch]

Speaking of Co2, Can someone help me real quick to let me know if this is possible.... I doubt it is

OK flower chamber will be 4 square feet (2x2)

Now thinking 550 watts (10 times 55 watt PL-L)

Thinking of laying lights out like this. 4 across the top shining down, then one on each side including door, also thinking about a plus sign of light, dividing the cab into 4 areas. The sideways light would be able to move from about an inch high, to 6 inches high...

16 plants in SOG, in an aero setup.

I am gonna try to show how I am thinking the side lighting will go in text - wish me luck. P is for Plant and "-" and "|" are direction lights are running -- This way there will be no part of any plant more than 6 inches away from light.
-------
|PP|PP|
|PP|PP|
|-- |--|
|PP|PP|
|PP|PP|
--------

Then of course 4 lights shining down as well.

I don't think cooling in general will be an issue, as I have the ability to run a massive fan if need be... But if I add co2, it may become an issue...

I am wondering if I could somehow get 550 watts in a cab, and also co2.... This of course would require as little cooling as possible because of the co2, and not wanting to waste it. I happen to own a 5 pound co2 tank from a kegerator I made but no longer use, would be willing to pick up a controller. (I am the type to throw money at a problem, get paid well, budget is not an issue or consideration in this build)

Any ideas?

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Speaking of Co2, Can someone help me real quick to let me know if this is possible.... I doubt it is

OK flower chamber will be 4 square feet (2x2)

Now thinking 550 watts (10 times 55 watt PL-L)

If you're going to cram that much into the box, I would suggest looking at Infectualize's High-Pod for ideas on how to air-cool the lights.

By sucking the heat out, cool-tube style, all your heat issues will be nil.

 

[DonkeyPunch]

If you're going to cram that much into the box, I would suggest looking at Infectualize's High-Pod for ideas on how to air-cool the lights.

By sucking the heat out, cool-tube style, all your heat issues will be nil.

Thanks - I actualy first found out about these lights in that thread. Absolutely amazed by his yield with one plant. I also think his lights were not optimum spectrum, like 4100k instead of 3000k or 2700k. Fantastic design he made.

I have a buddy who works at a local HVAC company running ductwork. He has been able to get the guys at the sheet metal shop there to make him, and also myself custom light hoods in the past. Those guys can take sheetmetal and make it any damn shape you can dream in about 5 minutes.

I am thinking of getting them to make me a custom hood that fits the cab exactly, and that can raise and lower for the 4 lights up top. I am sure it would not be too hard from them to make it an air coolable hood, and then I just hit up a glass shop for the botom glass cut to fit what they make the hood size.

Maybe then I could use infectualize's idea on the three sides that are not a door.

That way all lights except three would be air cooled... (The one on the door, the 2 that run through the plants in either direction)

Also, if I am running co2, the plants can get a little warmer and be fine...

This might actualy work...

I know I would like to see what kind of yield I would get with 550 watts cfl, no part of any plant further than 6 inches from light, light from all sides, and co2!!!

 

[DonkeyPunch]

How wide are PL-L's? I mean the total width of the two tubes and the airspace between.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

How wide are PL-L's? I mean the total width of the two tubes and the airspace between.

A PL-L lamp is.... Umm.... (goes and gets a tape measure)

Can't find one They're about 2" wide though. And I have 4 of them spaced equally apart in an 18" area so.... whatever that spacing is.

Or were you referring to the reflector from HTGsupply with the 2 Pl-L's in it?

 

[DonkeyPunch]

A PL-L lamp is.... Umm.... (goes and gets a tape measure)

Can't find one They're about 2" wide though. And I have 4 of them spaced equally apart in an 18" area so.... whatever that spacing is.

Or were you referring to the reflector from HTGsupply with the 2 Pl-L's in it?

Not referring to reflector - back to thinking again - 2 inch estimate is fine and what I was guessing looking at pics. Now thinking I might go with 8-10 all overhead in an air cooled hood made by my buddies work...

I keep going back and forth with ideas - I am tired of building shit, just want to get this last build right to never fuck with it again...

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Not referring to reflector - back to thinking again - 2 inch estimate is fine and what I was guessing looking at pics. Now thinking I might go with 8-10 all overhead in an air cooled hood made by my buddies work...

I keep going back and forth with ideas - I am tired of building shit, just want to get this last build right to never fuck with it again...

I hear ya!
I want to stop messing with stuff and concentrate on the plants but I still have mickey mouse construction in my way! LOL

 

[Asil]

Does any one know anything about these lights? http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+8068+13314&pcatid=13314

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Does any one know anything about these lights? http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+8068+13314&pcatid=13314

Ya, those are PL-L lamps but higher wattage. They're mainly used in aquarium type setups.

Over 55w these lamps put off a bit fewer lumens per watt and a bit more heat per watt, so they're a bit less efficient. The tubes also run a lot hotter (like the T5 lamps) and require a hotter environment to operate at optimum output.

The 55w PL-L and lower wattages are the only lamps you can use at plant growing temps and still have them putting out maximum lumens.

 

[Asil]

Ok I get that 55w lights and lower are efficent. I was wondering about the color spectrum of them they say they are 10000k and 6500k. Would 10000k be a better kelvin for veg?

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Ok I get that 55w lights and lower are efficent. I was wondering about the color spectrum of them they say they are 10000k and 6500k. Would 10000k be a better kelvin for veg?

Maybe. I get awesome results with the 5400K and 6500K and can't imagine there being much more benefit. Not saying I wouldn't like to try it, just don't see the point.

 

[DonkeyPunch]

Ok I get that 55w lights and lower are efficent. I was wondering about the color spectrum of them they say they are 10000k and 6500k. Would 10000k be a better kelvin for veg?

To add one more thing - I am not yet convinced a ton is known about spectrum relating to pot. I know I have read a million and one things all saying the same about red and blue, veg and flower, etc.

That said I have seen awesome grows with MH bulbs and no HPS all the way through.

Then there is the highpod, where dude got 1 qp off one plant, in a trashcan, using lights not "right" for either veg, or flower.

I plan to continue to follow the "rules" as to give me a better chance for success, but I am not sure how accurate those "Rules" really are...

 

[Tanuvan]

The rules are VERY important. Just look up some LED grows...they are still trying to isolate the correct spectrum. The deal with Fluoro lighting is that is is more or less full spectrum...with an emphasis on certain parts of the spectrum useful for plants...ie 2700'ish and 6500' ish K.

If you don't believe that spectrum is important...try flowering under mercury vapor...which while an HID, the yields will be less than desired (I have yet to see anyone raving over a Mercury Vapor or Halogen Grow). Both metal halide and hps are still within the general spectrum of useful light as is 6500 and 2700-3K flouro lighting. Both ranges target different types of chlorophyll.

 

[DonkeyPunch]

The rules are VERY important. Just look up some LED grows...they are still trying to isolate the correct spectrum. The deal with Fluoro lighting is that is is more or less full spectrum...with an emphasis on certain parts of the spectrum useful for plants...ie 2700'ish and 6500' ish K.

If you don't believe that spectrum is important...try flowering under mercury vapor...which while an HID, the yields will be less than desired (I have yet to see anyone raving over a Mercury Vapor or Halogen Grow). Both metal halide and hps are still within the general spectrum of useful light as is 6500 and 2700-3K flouro lighting. Both ranges target different types of chlorophyll.

I am not saying it's not important, I am sure it is. All I am saying is I have seen amazing results that broke the "rules", and I question how important those rules are.


Ever see an all Metal Halide grow? Produces some real nice results... Hardly any red in it, yet still forms large flowers...