refractometer to measure brix

MileHighGuy · Aug 30, 2013

@FatherEarth:

How have your soil tests correlated to your Brix readings?

I mean, I get that higher Brix is a good thing, but to me it seems like the Brix is a lagging indicator and the fastest way to solving soil problems would be in the soil itself....

Is there something that I'm missing?

It seems that the Soil Balance would change the Brix, so why focus on the Brix, when we already know what makes a good soil?

I would consider purchasing a Brix tester but I can't imagine what I would use it for right now.... and I seriously do care about learning all the latest methods.

So far, this is how I was thinking Brix could be implemented into a system....

If I read my soil test, and then alter it according to the recommendations of Albrecht..... THEN I could see reading the Brix and correlating it to a the recent changes in soil inputs..... Instead of paying for a Paste test half way through a Cycle.... you could check the brix everyday and look for swings or changes that might indicate it's time for another soil test to be performed.

But the problem is that the Brix seems to be just an indicator... and that no matter what, proper soil testing could be more advantageous.

If I look at a healthy plant grown in a soil that is balanced properly, I would just expect it to have a relatively high brix..... like I would expect it to resist disease and bugs better than an unhealthy plant....

Where does the Brix come into play in your gardens here.... and what decisions were you able to make to improve your garden based on the brix testing?

mohammed romney · Jan 1, 2014

Going back a few pages...re diatomaceous earth. I used both the granular and flour forms in my soil. Too much of either or both together negatively impacted my plants. Using a bit of the flour as an insect deterrent or silicon boost seems OK as does using maybe 20% of well rinsed granular.

vapor · Jan 1, 2014

some diatoms are not good for gardening, but i have not found out why as of yet? 98 % of phytoplankton are diatoms. Rock livers. I have read the pool diatoms are bad for breathing in because of the size of the particle. They do eat nitrates and phosphates,silicates too.

habeeb · Jan 14, 2014

hey guys,

was looking at models. does automatic temperature compensation matter that much in models?

c-ray · May 21, 2014

grow nerd · Jun 14, 2014

Are a pair of spoons still considered the latest and greatest?

I looked at a few different "heavy duty" garlic presses on Amazon, most of them look to be made by the same manufacturer using the exact same parts, just different printed brand.

Getting a little bit of liquid squeezed out at the tip of the leaf stem with spoons or rolling action seems best, but I wouldn't know. I'm a little concerned about using methods like the garlic press, wondering if residues from previous foliars coming in contact with the sap will alter results and possibly give inaccurate readings. If this isn't an issue, how about something like a syringe to help with easy drop placement and possibly less liquid lost to surfaces? Place leaf stem in small syringe, squeeze onto lens, done.

grow nerd · Jun 18, 2014

I guess it doesn't work.

Stuck a fan leaf stem into a 3mL syringe tube, pressed down as hard as I could (to the point of bending and almost breaking the two finger tabs at the end). Saw some amount of juices being squeezed out of the tissue and bubbling tiny bits when pressing the plunger real hard, but doesn't even begin to flow liquid out the tip. Maybe two stems may give a better result, but doubtful.

Two spoons worked much better.

undercalisun · Jun 18, 2014

noob here, i just ordered a refractometer yesterday, i'll do some reading here and try to share something.

Rolling Stoner · Aug 21, 2015

I know this is old but thanks for the info everyone. I needed to figure out how to squeeze out the juice cause I was having trouble and got my answer.

Im gonna make my own modified vise grip/spoon tool. Awesome!

bamboogardner · Aug 21, 2015

This is what you need from Pike Agri-Labs Supply. www.pikeagri.com

Modified Vise Grips "10 inch" $34.00
Vise grips modified with stainless steel jaws to squeeze juice from plant leaves, fruits, or vegetables. Portable & easy to clean. Works great for most materials. Improved shape on jaws helps direct sap through spout.

m_astera · Aug 29, 2015

Quote:

"Bacteria have a Carbon/Nitrogen ratio of 5-1 making them the most Nitrogen dense living organisms on the planet. So the plant is attracting Nitrogen to the root zone; but the Nitrogen in the bacteria is unavailable to the plant."

"Protozoa are predators of bacteria; however, they have a very different Carbon/Nitrogen ratio of 30-1. This means that in order to get 30 units of Carbon from the bacteria, a protozoa will need to eat 6 bacteria. This will leave him with 5 extra units of Nitrogen that he just doesn’t need. When the protozoa excrete the excess N, the Nitrogen has been transformed into a soluble form that is quickly taken up by the nearby root hair. Since each protozoa can consume about 10,000 bacteria per day, and there can be 50,000 protozoa in each gram of soil; there will be plenty of Nitrogen available for the plant."
[end quote]

This is excellent information, simply explained and very valuable to know. Thanks for posting it.

I have read the CSI newsletter before and always found some gems. They are a little heavy on promoting their own brand-name products but I can let that pass. Probably worthwhile to subscribe to the newsletter.

m_astera · Aug 29, 2015

From c-ray's post on page 6--

"Introduction To Plant Feeding Using the Biological Theory of Ionization By Dr. Carey Reams & Dr. Dan Skow, Part 5
Edited and Summarized by John Oolman

Rule 33: Probable mineral strata levels (depth is variable).

Carbon
Magnesium
Phosphate
Potassium
Silica & Sodium
Sulfur
Aluminum
Iron & Manganese
Copper
Calcium

Notice that Calcium is at the bottom, so if top soil is not handled correctly, calcium will move too deep, in a plow pan or hard pan, in which roots and water and even air will have a difficulty penetrating. This is why one sees larger and larger tractors are required to work the ground as the soil tightens up. Walking in a cave one sees stalactites and stalagmites this was once calcium on top of the ground but was never held in the soil.
~~~~~

This is why no-till does not work for annuals, because the soil minerals naturally stratify to different horizons. Most perennials have deep roots that can find the minerals like Ca that have leached down to the subsoil, as well as small feeder roots that reach up to obtain Mg, P, and C from the topsoil (A horizon). Annuals like cannabis search for nutrients in all directions and do not have years to find them. Much better to have the needed nutrients evenly blended throughout the growing media where the roots can find whatever is needed easily and in luxury quantities.

Microbeman · Aug 29, 2015

m_astera said:
Quote:

"Bacteria have a Carbon/Nitrogen ratio of 5-1 making them the most Nitrogen dense living organisms on the planet. So the plant is attracting Nitrogen to the root zone; but the Nitrogen in the bacteria is unavailable to the plant."

"Protozoa are predators of bacteria; however, they have a very different Carbon/Nitrogen ratio of 30-1. This means that in order to get 30 units of Carbon from the bacteria, a protozoa will need to eat 6 bacteria. This will leave him with 5 extra units of Nitrogen that he just doesn’t need. When the protozoa excrete the excess N, the Nitrogen has been transformed into a soluble form that is quickly taken up by the nearby root hair. Since each protozoa can consume about 10,000 bacteria per day, and there can be 50,000 protozoa in each gram of soil; there will be plenty of Nitrogen available for the plant."
[end quote]

This is excellent information, simply explained and very valuable to know. Thanks for posting it.

I have read the CSI newsletter before and always found some gems. They are a little heavy on promoting their own brand-name products but I can let that pass. Probably worthwhile to subscribe to the newsletter.

Where is this from? Where is the foundational information. I looked back in the thread but did not see it. It kind of makes sense although I'm willing to bet that archaea were disguised as bacteria.

http://www.microbeorganics.com/#Living_Soil
The most active protozoa contributing to this nutrient loop are flagellates and naked amoebae, however ciliates and testate amoebae cycle nutrients to a lesser degree in an aerobic soil. As the flagellates and naked amoebae consume bacteria/archaea they utilize somewhere from 10 to 40% of the energy intake for sustenance, dependent on species. The excess is excreted in a (ionic) form directly available to the roots of the plants. This means a plant can receive a whopping 60 to 90% nutrient bonus from this exchange.

As I have indicated previously the plant is not necessarily passive in this process. Studies show that plants emit certain carbons from their roots which attract and feed specific types of bacteria/archaea. Once these bacteria/archaea begin to divide, they begin pigging out on the adjacent organic matter (using organic acids) and the population explodes, thereby stimulating a resultant protozoa population explosion. Talk about a return on your investment.

m_astera · Aug 30, 2015

From c-ray's post on page 7:

Quote:

"Originally Posted by Microbeman
LaMotte test kits are not accurate. IME

I agree,.. Morgan tests on the other hand are well accepted by a number of labs, consultants and farmers as being highly valuable"
~~~~~~~~~~

The LaMotte soil testing kit uses the Morgan extracting solution, so it is a Morgan test.

The Morgan extracting solution has a pH of 4.8, which is commonly found in the acidic environment around plant roots, so the Morgan test is considered to be an accurate measure of which minerals are readily available. It is not acidic enough to measure what is potentially available to plants, nor to extract the base cations (Ca, Mg, K, Na) held on exchange sites by static charge, and so is of no use for estimating CEC (cation exchange capacity) or for balancing the base cation saturation ratio (BCSR) a la Albrecht.

m_astera · Aug 30, 2015

"Where is this from? Where is the foundational information. I looked back in the thread but did not see it. It kind of makes sense although I'm willing to bet that archaea were disguised as bacteria."

It's from page 7 of this thread, post #92. The source is given as

http://www.cropservicesintl.com/ld_n...link=jan13.htm

I don't know the C:N ratio of bacteria vs archaea. That protozoans maintain a much wider C:N ratio than bacteria is news to me. How accurate the general statement is I don't know either. New concept, need to do more reading.

Thanks for the further info and link you posted.

VortexPower420 · Aug 30, 2015

If I'm not mistaken I think Gramme Sait talked about that in his class I attended.

I can't remember if it was him or maybe John Kempf but they talked about the different C: N ratios of microbes and how them eating each other releases N ion and diffrent nutrients.

m_astera · Aug 30, 2015

From post 125:

"Homemade Phosphorus Fertilizer
by Shabari Bird

Verily, bones should never be wasted, and phosphorous fertiliser production as part of a self-sufficient operation may require burning them. Gardeners may find they can process left over bones through their wood heaters. In general, burned bones may come from almost any source, and some will burn more easily than others. Burnt bones can be crushed into powder and extracted with vinegar or other organic acids using moderate heat to yield soluble phosphates for liquid applications, and if a little elemental sulphur is needed, the vinegar stage is a good place to add it as a small percentage of the total dry matter."

Vinegar, being a product of anaerobic fermentation and a growth suppressant is probably not a good choice for solubilizing P. Citric acid, which plant roots produce naturally (and is used in lab tests for determining P content of fertilizers) would be a better choice for organic growers. The original soluble P fertilizers, starting in the 1840s, used sulfuric acid to make P available from bones, and later from phosphate rock. This is known as single superphosphate 0-20-0 today. It is an excellent fertilizer because it contains the full range of trace elements found in the phosphate rock.

[I haven't figured out the quote function yet, all I get is the link, not the text]

m_astera · Aug 30, 2015

Post #172:

"For 100% sodium bentonite clumping clay that is kinda expensive but widely available...check out Dr Elsey's Precious Cat Classic Cat Litter. Petsmart has 40 pound bags for around $20. I tried them for a few cycles and quite satisfied with the grow results...but the price killed me--Walmart $4 vs Petsmart $20 for 40 pounds of clay."

One does not want to use sodium bentonite clay for growing plants. This would include oil-dry, cat litter, and the bentonite used for sealing well casings and earthen pond bottoms. These are all extremely sticky clays, swelling clays, and will make a real mess out of any compost they are used in. Worst of all, they are loaded with sodium and will poison sodium sensitive plants.

The bentonite to use in agriculture is calcium bentonite. High CEC, high levels of Ca, non-swelling, non-sticky, non-toxic. Calcium bentonite is what is used for detoxing baths and cosmetic applications. In the US it is sold as a feed additive called PelBon.

bamboogardner · Aug 30, 2015

Hi Michael and glad you have the time to promote good soil practices to us. On that topic, how do you feel about adding agricultural zeolite to the top rhizosphere of the soil in a 33% peat, 33% compost/EWC mix, and 33% aeration, and which soil has been amended to Albrecht's standards?

Microbeman · Aug 30, 2015

Yes, I've been harping on the use of flagellates and naked amoebae for nutrient uptake for years.

In the Vigdis Torsvik labs in Europe they have been conducting studies which indicate that archaea may be much more ubiquitous than thought and responsible for the lion's share of N mineralization in soil.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/08/060817103131.htm
The tally suggested that copies of the archaeal gene in the soil samples were up to 3,000 times more abundant than copies of the bacterial gene. High amounts of lipids specific to crenarchaeota confirmed the organism's presence.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090930132656.htm

refractometer to measure brix

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