Rebirth of .\nti

[Anti]

Updated sketches

Updated sketches

^^^ Front View ^^^
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This is still assuming I will only have 2 lamps for the first round. So it is 6 ft. tall rather than 8 ft.

The vertical usable light spread represented by this image is approximately 4ft. tall. (2 stacked lamps covering approximately a 2ft vertical spread each. 6 inches above and below each lamp with lamps spaced a foot apart.)

The radius of the circle from the center of the lamp to the front edge of each tier is 35" in this illustration.

Here's another angle of the same.

(Those blue things are scale 55 gallon drum reservoirs.)

^^^ Alternate View ^^^

^^^ Bird's Eye View ^^^

Question for DHF - I put "reflectix" at 45 degree angles in the corners of one of the models to make sure I understand you correctly. Is this how you would do it?

Just because I know that threads suck without pics, I took some shots of my remaining mamas and my newly sprouted seedlings.

^^^ Moms in a closet with a 40w CFL and a 20w CFL hung vert style with reflectix! ^^^
(I literally hacked at least HALF of these plants away because it was dying back and I was trying to remove anything dead or dying and hope the plant can recover. Gonna trim the roots and repot them ASAP, but that closet doesn't have much room for such things and its only a temporary spot until I get a spot locked down.)

^^^ Seedlings + One AK47 Clone that survived (thus far) ^^^
​

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[Anti]

Welcome back!
Thanks for taking the time to read my thread, and yes they are larger plants than you like, but I have circumstances out of my control. I know have more room than before and have been toying with the idea of a two tiered coli on wheels with 16 smaller plants rather than 6-8.

Oops. Missed one! Where I'm at having ANY plants is a minimum 5 year sentence without a plea. Anything above about an ounce to almost 20 lbs is the same 5-10. So the way I look at it is that I want to maximize my yield potential without raising my profile (electric bill) too high. Trying to max out my GPW with large #s of clones. I started with budsicles under CFL. It's what I know (ish). I KNOW I can do better than I've done. I'm kinda interested to see the difference between the 600w HPS and the 400w CMH vs my 400w CMH alone or CFLs. This will be my first real HPS run and so I am looking to those of you who are doing it for the real world details, vs. my own speculation.

Thanks for your input. I am actually considering bobble's idea if my AK mamas don't bounce back. If I can't get enough cuts for a proper VSOG, I may do as he suggested and throw all my cuts into veg for a month, take cuts of each and flower all but a few. That way I'll have SOMETHING to use as a mom while the clone-mamas are growing into bonzai mamas.

 

[Anti]

Hello everyone.

12 in Organic Air carbon filter [rated at 4000 cfm] mated to a 12 in fan [rated at 1140 cfm for exhaust. Filter looks like a giant k&n air filter. weighs 20 lbs. Cost for both was approx $420.00 from plantlightinghydroponics.com.

My room is 1370 cubic feet and located 20 miles from hell. This works good unless intake temps get over 85f. No a/c.

I had to redo my air circulation system because I was insufficiently gonzo the first time I built it.

Have a nice day. bg

So if I read you right, you're only exchanging your room every 1.2 minutes and still keeping your temps at ambient? 1370 is a big room. My 8x8x8 dream rooms would only be 512 sq. ft each. So I was looking at 1024cfm minimum extraction per room. But you're doing less than half of that. How many lights are you running and at what wattage?

Thanks for your input, I'm just struggling to understand it.

 

[DHF]

Yes Bro....My rooms weren`t true octagons but rather square with the corners chopped/angled , so you`re on point with the reflectix .....

All yas need is the plants backed away from each other in the corners just enough ta give proper airflow and lumen penetration/absorption back from the reflectix so the outside plants can swell as much as the inside one`s for consistent returns run in and run out....and yeah.......

I see kids here getting popped for 1/4 oz possession charges and without a good lawyer receive a yr and a day prison time.....

Cultivation is mandatory life sentence at the judge`s and district attorney`s discretion.....but....

You`re doing exactly what I did by flying under the radar with increased plant numbers with less wattage per location....I never ran more power bill than the median useage in each neighborhood I had locations at to the tune of 250 bucks a month max......

Carry on and get ta work my buddy.....Holler if I can help.....

Peace.....DHF...........

 

[Avinash.miles]

good lookin anti, tagged

 

[Anti]

Yes Bro....My rooms weren`t true octagons but rather square with the corners chopped/angled , so you`re on point.....

All yas need is the plants backed away from each other in the corners just enough ta give proper airflow and lumen penetration/absorption so the outside plants can swell as much as the inside one`s for consistent returns run in and run out....and yeah.......

The size of the tiers is just the size of the cheapest dutch leach trays I could find. (40"x6"x6") I could get them closer together, but i want to fill as much of that "goldilocks donut" as possible.

I've looked at about 30 locations but decent places at decent rents move fast and the ideal spots always disappear before I can see them. Plus, a lot of these landlords are keeping things like extra vanities and toilets in the basement. I can't have a landlord coming by once a month to pick up something he needs. I need a landlord who doesn't give a fuck as long as the rent comes in.

Thanks Fred!

 

[MrAwder]

Why 35"? According to the chart I have seen around 29" is the max optimal distance for 600s. Unless you going with 1000s and I missed it.

Been following your grows since the original cab days. Always great stuff so I'm sure you already know this and have a good reason. I'm just curious as I have been researching light footprints myself trying to minimize my square footage.

 

[redbudduckfoot]

Yeah, I agree with MR. Awder. You need to downsize yer footprint to 5 x 5 or 6 x 6.

My 1200w purpose built vert room is 4.8 x 4.8, for 52 wpsft. That is what you wanna get to.

rbdf

 

[Jamorg13]

So i have been dickin around with sketchup for a few hours, its really fun, but either you are really good or i just suck. Isnt there a way to share items/buildings? i want to steal your light pattern

 

[Anti]

Why 35"? According to the chart I have seen around 29" is the max optimal distance for 600s. Unless you going with 1000s and I missed it.

Been following your grows since the original cab days. Always great stuff so I'm sure you already know this and have a good reason. I'm just curious as I have been researching light footprints myself trying to minimize my square footage.

Yeah, I agree with MR. Awder. You need to downsize yer footprint to 5 x 5 or 6 x 6.

My 1200w purpose built vert room is 4.8 x 4.8, for 52 wpsft. That is what you wanna get to.

rbdf

Hi guys. I'm gonna try to reply to both at once here.

The room as designed is 8x8, but that leaves a full foot behind each of the planters to allow them to be moved around or taken out of the room entirely. I plan to wrap the backs of each tier in reflectix and put reflectix in the empty corners. So the actual size of the "grow chamber " would be around 6x6, once you account for the foot of space behind each tier. That's a maximum of ~3.5ft from center of lamp to the reflectix behind the plant tiers.

Very similar to what bobble and Mister D are doing but with less height. Am I missing something obvious here?

Also, how tall is your 1200w room, RBDF?

It would definitely lower costs to make the rooms smaller, require less ventilation, etc. I just don't want to be crawling around to get to plants, ya know? Plus I figured the extra room for heat to disperse before leaving would help in lowering the room's ambient temperature relative to the rest of the house.

But that's why I post these things before I build them.

Thoughts?

 

[MrAwder]

I think the rooms themselves can be whatever size you are comfortable with, but I would push the racks closer to the light. I would make it 2.5' maximum to the reflectix behind the tiers. Put the tiers on casters so you can roll them back if you really need to get inside the "donut". Otherwise manage the plants from behind the racks. Or make one rack removable and 3 stationary.

just my .02 and based purely on the "effective lumens" chart I have seen around here. 600W at 29" is roughly 5000 lumens = minimum optimal.

 

[Anti]

I think the rooms themselves can be whatever size you are comfortable with, but I would push the racks closer to the light. I would make it 2.5' maximum to the reflectix behind the tiers. Put the tiers on casters so you can roll them back if you really need to get inside the "donut". Otherwise manage the plants from behind the racks. Or make one rack removable and 3 stationary.

just my .02 and based purely on the "effective lumens" chart I have seen around here. 600W at 29" is roughly 5000 lumens = minimum optimal.

^^^ Size Comparison Chart. ^^^

The yellow circle represents a 2.5ft (30") radius from center of bulb out. It's also approximately 50w/sq. ft. assuming that I use 1000w.

The one on the far left is smallest possible way to make efficient use of that light. (Mr.Awder's suggestion.)

The one on the far right is the room as previously illustrated.

The one that is second to the right is my actual intended design. It's so easy to make stoney mistakes.

The racks are definitely going to be made to be moved for access.

Notice that the middle three room sizes (6x6, 7x7, 8x8) the actual size of the grow area does not change, only the breathing room behind it.

 

[redbudduckfoot]

On casters would be sick. as long as you are not relying on the walls of the 8 x 8 for yer reflective surface. gotta have the reflextix/orca up close for proper dispersion.

rbdf

 

[Bennyweed1]

This is gonna be a good show, oooweee. It looks like I do what your kinda talking about but you are for sure more precise with your methods then I am. Make me feel all lazy and shit....lol. Consistency and efficiency is what drives my boat though.

Never done large plant counts, but I havest 6 plants every 3 weeks and veg no less then 6 weeks. Took a while to tweak it out but Im averaging 14oz every 3 weeks and im pretty damn happy about that.

I cant wait to see what you can crank out and I hope you can manage to find a means to start on your own. Having the skills to grow grade A primo bud is priceless IMO and should never be taken for granted if ya know what Im saying. Good luck and safe growing amigo!

 

[catalyte]

good luck on this new settup Anti!

on to bigger and better things!

 

[LouDog420]

I'm rocking the stacked 400s in a 5x5, 2 tiers... I probably wouldn't want to go much more than 6x6 with a 600 and 400 stacked... I could see 3 tiers if you are flipping clones without veg.

And I see it all over the vert forum, calculating W/SF, but using the square footage of the floor instead of the growing area on the walls... Maybe it's just me being a math nerd, but I feel like the numbers are misleading and a bit useless when we can keep stacking bulbs over a given floor area and increase w/sf over the floor area as long as we keep increasing the height, which might not actually be increasing w/sf on the growing plane... I'd be interested to hear if there is a reason behind using these measures (Maybe you're all using 6' tall rooms, and DHF found that measure to work best??)

Either way, I've found 15w/sf on the walls to be about the minimum I can get away with in vert when stacking bulbs. Which would be 2*pi*r*h where r is the radius and h is the height of the goldilocks zone...

For my room, I use about 4' of height and a 4' diameter for the primo buds... 2*pi*(2')*4' = 50.2 SF... W/SF = 800W / 50.2SF = 15.9 w/sf

Best of luck bro, and happy turkey day!

 

[DHF]

Ok......Just wanted to chime in about lumen penetration into a sideways canopy with bare bulbs........preferably eye horti`s cuz I rocked em for almost 20 yrs per my digital light meter as the highest output bulb...... and believe me.....I tried em all....maybe there`s better bulbs these days and IME need to be used if available........

Now.....My rooms were 8 x 8 RBDF and Mr Awder on the "outside " dimensions , and the angled racks "inside" the flip rooms ended up a lil less than 6 x 6 with everything that wasn`t green covered in reflectix , including the ceilings.........and.....

The corners were covered in reflectix with no plants for even more lumens bein bounced up down and all around said grow area while allowing the outside plants to thrive without growing into each other and competing for light and environment.....that said......

I assure all here that regardless of light penetration charts , 50 watts per sq ft in ANY sized room is your friend , and 3 stacked 600 watt eye horti`s bounced off my racks at 5000 and 36" away....but....

The bigger the room , the more shadows and lumenloss become obstacles to overcome for proper plant lumen absorption till end of cycle when shit gets thick with the proper dense canopy..........so.....

When I put approximately 4-6 week old/strain dependent fully rooted and pre-vegged trimmed , pruned , and shaped , picks of the litter cuts into the flip rooms , they were angled and pointed directly at the lights for a jumpstart in stretch mode , instead of being on a flat shelf having the stems bend toward the light and keep the backs of the plants from developing like stadium setups are well noted for.....

Sideways canopy development by end of stretch and knowin when to flip the plants with tit`s dialed environment means waaaaaay more than how much light yas`re blastin at them bitches.....trust me......anyways......

Over here on my bucket Bro.....and wanted to letchas know I`ve got nuthin against yer Bro that`s helpin yas out.......sounds like a class individual for steppin up when yas had few options or sink.........

Get ta work and make the comeback yas deserve.......God knows yas`ve done yer homework.....Make it happen...and.....

Happy Thanksgiving guys.............aight.......it ain`t a Turkey , but it`s a bird....

Peace...Freds.............

 

[Jamorg13]

Hey anti, is your growroom uploaded? if so what is the tag? I want to use your light pattern

thanks

 

[Anti]

This is gonna be a good show, oooweee. It looks like I do what your kinda talking about but you are for sure more precise with your methods then I am. Make me feel all lazy and shit....lol. Consistency and efficiency is what drives my boat though.

Never done large plant counts, but I havest 6 plants every 3 weeks and veg no less then 6 weeks. Took a while to tweak it out but Im averaging 14oz every 3 weeks and im pretty damn happy about that.

14 oz every 3 weeks is nothing to sneeze at, homie. That's about 15 elbows a year by my math. Good shit!

good luck on this new settup Anti!
on to bigger and better things!

Thanks!

On casters would be sick. as long as you are not relying on the walls of the 8 x 8 for yer reflective surface. gotta have the reflextix/orca up close for proper dispersion.

rbdf - please continue nitpicking. I appreciate you taking the time. My plan is to do as you have suggested. There will be a reflectix octagon DIRECTLY behind the tiers. So even the edges of the "goldilocks" zone will be supplemented by reflected light coming off the reflectix directly behind the plants.

I'm rocking the stacked 400s in a 5x5, 2 tiers... I probably wouldn't want to go much more than 6x6 with a 600 and 400 stacked... I could see 3 tiers if you are flipping clones without veg.

And I see it all over the vert forum, calculating W/SF, but using the square footage of the floor instead of the growing area on the walls... Maybe it's just me being a math nerd, but I feel like the numbers are misleading and a bit useless when we can keep stacking bulbs over a given floor area and increase w/sf as long as we keep increasing the height, which might not actually be increasing w/sf on the growing plane...

Either way, I've found 15w/sf on the walls to be about the minimum I can get away with in vert when stacking bulbs. Which would be 2*pi*r*h where r is the radius and h is the height of the goldilocks zone...

Thanks for this formula! I have wondered the same things for a long time now about why we're calculating W/ft^2 when we were using W/ft^3. But I trust that DHF wouldn't knowingly steer me wrong and people using it as a benchmark are beating the crap out of my GPW #s.

I have had many of the same questions you are asking but math was one of my worst subjects in school (I didn't like homework. Could do all other subjects without trying. Math I had to try. Didn't try. So now I suck at anything above Algebra.)

I'm going to play with this formula for a few days and see where it leads me.

Now.....My rooms were 8 x 8 RBDF and Mr Awder on the "outside " dimensions , and the angled racks "inside" the flip rooms ended up a lil less than 6 x 6 with everything that wasn`t green covered in reflectix , including the ceilings.........and.....

I assure all here that regardless of light penetration charts , 50 watts per sq ft in ANY sized room is your friend , and 3 stacked 600 watt eye horti`s bounced off my racks at 5000 and 36" away....but....

Get ta work and make the comeback yas deserve.......God knows yas`ve done yer homework.....Make it happen...and.....

Happy Thanksgiving guys.............aight.......it ain`t a Turkey , but it`s a bird....

Peace...Freds.............

Fred... love having you here, homie!

And Happy Thanksgiving, everybody. Mine's gonna suck a bit because I'll be alone with a protein bar instead of with family and friends eating turkey, but hopefully by the time it rolls around next year I'll have plenty to be thankful for.

I am thankful, however, that I have you guys. Sincerely. From my heart.

Thank you!

 

[311devon]

I'm curious what people use for filtration.

In my last space, my fan/filter combo were capable of exhausting the room about 1.75 times per minute.

In my new rooms, twice per minute will be the rule.

However, in an 8x8x6 room, I need 768 CFM extraction through a filter. From the math I've done, each room's fan/filter is going to cost about $450-500. (This is using a Can 100 Filter ~ $200 and a Can Max Fan 10 ~$250 which is rated at around 825 CFM pulling through a filter.)

If anybody has any suggestions how to do it better, cheaper or quieter, I'd love to hear them.

(My current Can 33 and fan will be used to de-stink the drying chamber when the time comes.)

Hey bro, been a while since i've been around, sorry to hear of your woes. Looks like you'll be back with a vengeance though.

As far as filter fan combos go, I'm a Vortex/Mountain Air fan all the way. Check out the science on Mountain Air's website, way more comprehensive than anything out there that ive found. Im exhausting a 42w"x39d"dx72h' tapering down to 39h" room(its a closet under a staircase) with a 400w MH and a 400W hps, using a 6" vortex blowing through about 10ft of 6" duct with two 90deg elbows, then into a custom made 20" sheetmetal cone to adapt it to a 10x24 Mountain air filter. its a Vscrog similar to the WOW thread. The room stays at 7 degress above ambient and scrubs the grow plus my blunt smoke from the basement nicely. I couldnt be happier with it. The Mountain Air filters are pricey, but it totally blows away the Phresh filter I used before on the INTAKE side, inside the grow chamber. Granted they are two radically different size filters, but they were/are proportionate to the size of grow they filter(ed).

Best of luck to ya bro, but you got skillz so who needs luck?