RDWC build

[Ole MacDonald]

Addressing the bottom drainage thing...

In BigToke's design, the supply line came into the bucket, hit a 90, and shot straight downwards. All fresh water from the reservoir was aimed straight at the bottom of the bucket. For this reason, I think the exchange would be much better than if the drain was at the bottom of the bucket. If you intend on bringing water in and aiming it at the net pot, I think you will that the high flow rate fucks with your root development. If you intend on bringing water in and aiming it at the bottom of the bucket with a 90 (like BigToke) then you will be pushing fresh water right towards your drain. The genius in BigToke's design, (in my humble opinion), is in the fact that he pushed fresh water to the bottom, and pushed old water to the top, all the while keep both supply and drain at the top of the bucket. The best of both worlds.

There is no way to bring in a massive amount of fresh water in and not aim it at the bottom of the bucket without blasting roots with more flow than they can handle.

Also, BigToke made a modification to his Bio Buckets after his first run. One flaw he found was that roots had a tendency to clog the bucket drain hole, as it was at the top of the bucket and close to the net pot. He added a plastic shield to prevent root growth from clogging the drain, and I will also be including this in the design. I would take this into account with any system you build. For my system, the roots would have to grow twice the height of the bucket before they could ever reach the drain, so I don't anticipate running into the same problems BigToke did.

 

[BreezeEazy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZMjDgM3LaU

Watch this video^ Might give you some ideas, its just a thought but I don't see how it wouldn't help. The mag-drive pump I want to get comes with one, plus the waterfall effect, plus one of these on every intake... should be set for DO and as well all know, usually the more the better.

 

[Ole MacDonald]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZMjDgM3LaU

Watch this video^ Might give you some ideas, its just a thought but I don't see how it wouldn't help. The mag-drive pump I want to get comes with one, plus the waterfall effect, plus one of these on every intake... should be set for DO and as well all know, usually the more the better.

Wow that is amazing!!! Never heard of a venturi valve, and to be honest, I'm having a really hard time wrapping my mind around how exactly it works. I understand the construction, but how exactly positive water pressure in a pipe ends up sucking in air is blowing my mind. Thanks for the cool link Breeze!

 

[BreezeEazy]

Wow that is amazing!!! Never heard of a venturi valve, and to be honest, I'm having a really hard time wrapping my mind around how exactly it works. I understand the construction, but how exactly positive water pressure in a pipe ends up sucking in air is blowing my mind. Thanks for the cool link Breeze!

No problem brother! I'm all about helping if I can. Think of it like how an exhaust system works. You have a high pressure and a low pressure point, thus creating a vacuum which creates the pull.

Don't be shocked if I come back with questions later on your on setup. I'm watching till the end because in 2 weeks I'm going to start building my own bio-bucket system.

 

[noyd666]

good instruction video, will be making this for my water barrels. good one mate.

 

[Ole MacDonald]

No problem brother! I'm all about helping if I can. Think of it like how an exhaust system works. You have a high pressure and a low pressure point, thus creating a vacuum which creates the pull.

Don't be shocked if I come back with questions later on your on setup. I'm watching till the end because in 2 weeks I'm going to start building my own bio-bucket system.

Awesome brother. It has been an adventure for sure!! I would love to watch yours come together, so please let me know when you get the thread rolling!

 

[HOVAH2.0]

Bleach is a very good cleaner for dwc design particularly at the beginning stages, during clone transplants into system. Imo Just to allow the good bac. a leg up, but once they are astablished you can cut bleach.

 

[Ole MacDonald]

Bleach is a very good cleaner for dwc design particularly at the beginning stages, during clone transplants into system. Imo Just to allow the good bac. a leg up, but once they are astablished you can cut bleach.

Right on. I always thought that bleach, and other sterilizing agents, had to be kept up, because bad bacteria were better able to colonize in the diminishing presence of sterilizing agents than good bacteria were. And that if you wanted to make the switch, you had to cut the sterilizing agent out all together, and install the good bacteria.

Anyone else want to weigh in on this? If this is true, this would be a huge paradigm shift for me!! Thanks for this new info Hovah!

 

[BreezeEazy]

I stopped using chemical cleaners. I do not trust them, I also grow largely organic so that would be bad IMO.

Last hydro grow I did I ditched chemical cleaners and started using pond-zyme. I paid no more than $18 for it and you need a fraction of a scoop to treat you system meaning you'll have it for awhile. My roots looked fantastic but it wasn't 100%. I had white buckets at the time, white lids, black drain res, and a dark main res (all exposed to light). Even with a water chiller I was ~72*F. I think that is the only reason why I had an issues with my last RDWC system, poor design and budget. Due to budget issues again, I switched over to soil for my current run while I work on my bio-bucket plan. Aiming to have zero issues this time in regards to my water. Food for thought, bro.

 

[Ole MacDonald]

I stopped using chemical cleaners. I do not trust them, I also grow largely organic so that would be bad IMO.

Last hydro grow I did I ditched chemical cleaners and started using pond-zyme. I paid no more than $18 for it and you need a fraction of a scoop to treat you system meaning you'll have it for awhile. My roots looked fantastic but it wasn't 100%. I had white buckets at the time, white lids, black drain res, and a dark main res (all exposed to light). Even with a water chiller I was ~72*F. I think that is the only reason why I had an issues with my last RDWC system, poor design and budget. Due to budget issues again, I switched over to soil for my current run while I work on my bio-bucket plan. Aiming to have zero issues this time in regards to my water. Food for thought, bro.

In my experience, any zyme products in DWC are a mistake. They turn decaying matter into sugar, which can feed bad bacteria. In the past when running aero or DWC, Hygrozyme and Cannazyme have both backfired on me, and led to slime. They worked great for me in other applications though, especially in soil and soilless.

I prefer not to run anything organic in DWC and aero.

But I will say I'm now obsessed with this venturi valve you mentioned. I'm currently testing different ways to include it in this system. I think I'm going to put one on each bucket, like you suggested Breeze, and ditch the air pumps and air stones. Still debating on keeping a pump and stone in the reservoir, but I think between the waterfall and the venturi valves, I should be at saturation level.

Thanks again for that info Breeze. I think these valves are the coolest thing I've seen in a while!!

 

[Ole MacDonald]

I've been running a bleach test, using Snype's suggested dosage, and so far it is 100% effective at keeping the aerocloner sterile, and has had no visible effects on the clones. I'm going to let the root systems grow big in there to see what happens to the plants once they are uptaking nutrients in the presence of bleach. I'm now considering using bleach in this system. It is the cheapest method I have ever seen to keep roots systems happy. When the test concludes, I'll post my findings. I'm pretty sure already that I'm going to be running the first RDWC show with bleach.

I put .5 ml of Clorox in the cloner with about 12 gallons of water, 30 ml Bloom and 20 ml Micro. Every 5 days, I add .2 ml of Clorox, because I have a 70 liter air pump with six air stones in a 77 site cloner, and I imagine that that much air would bubble out the chlorine pretty quickly. I'm only adding the bleach back in to periodically sterilize the reservoir.

I've spent so much money on products in the past that don't do as good a job as this is doing. I'm kinda stunned by the whole thing.

 

[BreezeEazy]

In my experience, any zyme products in DWC are a mistake. They turn decaying matter into sugar, which can feed bad bacteria. In the past when running aero or DWC, Hygrozyme and Cannazyme have both backfired on me, and led to slime. They worked great for me in other applications though, especially in soil and soilless.

I prefer not to run anything organic in DWC and aero.

That is a shame. I haven't had it backfire on me. I've had some slime but that is common in DWC usually. My roots still looked better than they ever have. Bigtoke is the one that sold me on organic. Once I learned you could do organic and hydro I was sold since the good bacteria keeps everything at bay plus you can ditch the pH meters and don't have to worry about nute burn. I think of Big Tokes system as a giant vortex compost tea brewer. Sounds like a win to me! but I'll still be watching because I like seeing both sides of the fence. Let me know what you come up with on the venturi valves, bro, might have to copy you I was just going to keep it simple on mine. Do you use a check valve by the way?

 

[Ole MacDonald]

So.......

I've been reading and watching videos about venturi valves for days now, and I am going to be testing a few ideas today. My plan is to add a venturi valve to each bucket (thanks Breeze!), and I think I can do this without having to buy any extra parts. This will hopefully allow me to ditch these obnoxiously loud commercial air pumps.

This system should be finished in 48 hours.
I'll be putting pics and info up today and tomorrow.

Here is something interested and unexpected that happened. I bought 1000 Watt Phantom digital ballasts with the 600W and 750W option. The plan was to run the ballasts at 750 Watts all the time, but I learned something today. Even when set to 750W, each ballast uses 1000 Watts to warm up. I wouldn't have known this if the relay I have didn't tell me the amperage being used. So nine ballasts, all set to 750 Watts, used 41.5 amps for about 15 minutes upon start-up, and then dropped down to 31.5 amps. This is important to know!!

I ran a 50 amp line that was intended to handle the flowering lights, veg lights (three 600W magnetic), and the 1 hp water chiller (800 Watts). For the 15 minutes these ballasts take to warm up, I would not be able to run all of these at the same time safely. So the veg lights are going to have to be off when the flowering lights first turn on to prevent maxing out the circuit.

I would have been very confused when the circuit popped each time if I didn't have this relay that told me the amperage. Lesson learned.

 

[Ole MacDonald]

Let me know what you come up with on the venturi valves, bro, might have to copy you I was just going to keep it simple on mine. Do you use a check valve by the way?

I will be posting the venturi tests today!

There will eventually be a check valve, or backflow prevent, immediately after each pump in the reservoir. This way, if one pump fails, the other will not pump water back into the reservoir through the failed pump. I opted to have two pumps, so water would keep moving if a pump failed.

For now, I am going to assume the brand new pumps will last long enough for one show, and I'll add the valves later.

 

[BreezeEazy]

The added benefits of not using air pumps too is that you wont be pumping hot air into the water. I never thought about it until I read it in a post. Can't wait to see your pictures and updates man, I've been waiting patiently!

So I'm really dumb when it comes to electricity. What does your relay do exactly? Is it a glorified breaker box? Because I'm upgrading to 240v on my next grow so I need a new box that can handle 60A or more and I think we are making one for a couple hundred. Also found a site that makes custom boxes for growers will tons of bells and whistles and the one you have looks pretty killer too but I know nothing about that stuff.

 

[mojave green]

Here is something interested and unexpected that happened. I bought 1000 Watt Phantom digital ballasts with the 600W and 750W option. The plan was to run the ballasts at 750 Watts all the time, but I learned something today. Even when set to 750W, each ballast uses 1000 Watts to warm up. I wouldn't have known this if the relay I have didn't tell me the amperage being used. So nine ballasts, all set to 750 Watts, used 41.5 amps for about 15 minutes upon start-up, and then dropped down to 31.5 amps. This is important to know!!

I ran a 50 amp line that was intended to handle the flowering lights, veg lights (three 600W magnetic), and the 1 hp water chiller (800 Watts). For the 15 minutes these ballasts take to warm up, I would not be able to run all of these at the same time safely. So the veg lights are going to have to be off when the flowering lights first turn on to prevent maxing out the circuit.

I would have been very confused when the circuit popped each time if I didn't have this relay that told me the amperage. Lesson learned.

i have each of my 5 bloom room ballasts on separate timers set to come on, each one 15 min after the one before it, to preclude startup surge problems.

 

[HOVAH2.0]

I agree with Mojava, staggering power to each ballast is an important fire preventer! You don't want a fire and all that it brings. And I know about Fires, from personal experience! Buy the $8 timers the best money you will spend and sleep at nite..

 

[Ole MacDonald]

I agree with Mojava, staggering power to each ballast is an important fire preventer! You don't want a fire and all that it brings. And I know about Fires, from personal experience! Buy the $8 timers the best money you will spend and sleep at nite..

The timer I am using is about the best fire-prevention money can afford. I paid a little more than $8 for it though.

http://www.powerboxinc.com/15000td.html

In addition, the digital ballasts I am using take 4 minutes to reach full power, so there are zero surge/spike concerns. I run 9 Phantom digital ballasts on the Powerbox 15000TD. At full power, the digital display reads 41.46 amps. When the ballasts are set to 750 Watts, the display reads 31.42 amps.

The problem with these ballasts is that they run at full power during warm-up regardless of the selected wattage. So the amperage steadily climbs from 0 up to 41.46 in the first few minutes. After staying at 41.46 for ten minutes or so, it steadily drops down to 31.42 amps and stays there until the lights turn off. This is a design flaw that I hope the company fixes in the future. Aside from that flaw, these ballasts are amazing.

It is almost 2:00am here, so I will have to put up pictures tomorrow in the late morning, and then again in the evening after the system is completed.

The venturi test was a huge success, so I am going to get rid of all the air pumps and air stones as a result. I'll also have pictures of the venturi valves that will go on each bucket. As far as worrying about pumps heating my water, I have a one horsepower Arctic chiller. A half horse would have been more than enough, but chillers last a lot longer when they don't have to run all the time.

Can't wait to boot this thing up!!

 

[HOVAH2.0]

WaIt cheaper to build a 1000watt ballast then add resisters to step down voltage to 750 and 600.
I tried that venturi idea but I didn't think it was enough 02. Air pumps move lots of water the more the better imo especially with a chiller. I wouldn't bet my grow on venturi alone$$$
U always see plants die from too little air, you will never see any thing die from too much air!

 

[BreezeEazy]

WaIt cheaper to build a 1000watt ballast then add resisters to step down voltage to 750 and 600.
I tried that venturi idea but I didn't think it was enough 02. Air pumps move lots of water the more the better imo especially with a chiller. I wouldn't bet my grow on venturi alone$$$
U always see plants die from too little air, you will never see any thing die from too much air!

Big Toke didn't run air pumps in his tutorial. He said the water fall + high change rates was enough. We're adding venturi valves to build upon his design and add extra air.

I also plan on trying to get water to move in the bucket. Since I'll be running PVC down to the bottom of the bucket to help try and push old water out I was thinking about adding a 45 or 90 degree elbow to the end of the pipe to see if it doesn't make the water start to 'swirl' to help kill any dead spots. Just a thought I plan on playing with when I build mine in a couple weeks.