Question regarding Ca uptake in early flower and VPD

[ButterflyEffect]

I use Langbeinite in the soil for added KSO and MgSO. But have a solution made up of 1200 ppm CaCl2, 100 ppm, MgCl2 and some KOH to pH as I'm using rain water. I have been giving all some but the biggest plant is taking it twice a week, 1/2 cup and looks to be heading for 3 times a week. This is on top of the nute mix I give them with 600 ppm or so Ca.

My struggles of the last 5 years are starting to make sense now.

This right here I could put on a plaque and hang in my area.

 

[ButterflyEffect]

Mine is rather uncontrolled. But I have some nugs so dense you need a pick to break them up. Should be an interesting run though getting into spring the CO2 will be less. A simple pilot light puts out quite a bit of CO2 in a small area.

You're kind of confirming what I believed as to why I can't get that level of nug density. I know they say it can be a variety of things but the CO2, I felt was a major factor. Of course I'd have to hike my total PPMs to match, but I already have the temp and humidity capable of going high enough to suit their needs. My runs are doing very nicely now, but I just want that damn density, ya know?

 

[ButterflyEffect]

So I have another question related to the foliars.

If I spray say the Ca, which is known to antagonize pretty much everything, does it also affect tose elements as a foliar? Or is that just when they're being taken up by the roots?

That said, I think the purpling is due to K. Symptoms match and I had been jacking up my CalNit ratio and then hitting them with Mg foliar and both of those antagonize K. That's what made me think of the question above.

 

[Three Berries]

Does foliar feeding affect the root uptake of similar elements?

 

[f-e]

I'm not 100%

Some elements can replace others. Sometimes even preferentially. Sodium for instance, can replace potassium. Right up past 50%, towards 80 perhaps. The effect is a softer foliage that won't keep well. What I'm saying is, that for some elements, we could satisfy the plants needs for others. Most certainly.

Recently Mg was spoke of. It was said a foliar would relocate in the roots. Pushing out other things in it's group.

I wouldn't count on the usual interactions listed. Some though..




I think I use calcium.. chloride. It's very greasy and bottle strength is about what water can hold before it gets so cold it freezes solid anyway. These are just clues though.

I mixed a good dose, no messing about, and turned my plants white. Well.. dusty at least. Not just spots, but dusty.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

in my experience, CO2 above 700ppm begins to grow excess stem and leaf. Makes for a fluffier flower. That's at 70F/20-30RH conditions, so the level will be higher for hotter/wetter environments.

 

[Three Berries]

in my experience, CO2 above 700ppm begins to grow excess stem and leaf. Makes for a fluffier flower. That's at 70F/20-30RH conditions, so the level will be higher for hotter/wetter environments.

If I keep the lights down close the plants are really compact and bushy. CO2 today is 1455ppm. They do develop stiff main stems not easily cut.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Higher light levels use more CO2, but plant temps over 70F vape off terpenes... I see what you're saying though.

 

[ButterflyEffect]

Higher light levels use more CO2, but plant temps over 70F vape off terpenes... I see what you're saying though.

Whenever I get around to switching one of my rooms over to LED I will test that theory side by side since I often run cuts of the same plants so it'll be a good comparison.

 

[ButterflyEffect]

So I guess it's not fully known whether the foliar elements can displace or antagonize other elements. It seems like it would be a good thing to know.

As for now, I'm thinking the issue of purple stems was a K issue from too much Ca and possibly Mg, both of which antagonize K.

My plants get pretty bushy and compact and I know I can get them even thicker down the road. One other factor might be the fact that I have everything in 1G pots, although running almost straight perlite and fertigating 3 times per light cycle it shouldn't be an issue. I may have to try a pilot light setup and see how that pans out.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Whenever I get around to switching one of my rooms over to LED I will test that theory side by side since I often run cuts of the same plants so it'll be a good comparison.

You have an epiphany coming your way. You will have difficulty recognizing it as the same cut, and in a good way. lol

 

[ButterflyEffect]

You have an epiphany coming your way. You will have difficulty recognizing it as the same cut, and in a good way. lol

I hope so! I'll take a small hit in quantity for the quality. It's too bad I couldn't do it sooner but I just can't swing the cost right now and it's the only way I could reasonably get the temps down to that level. Keep in mind that by trying to get the humidity that low, I'll be introducing more heat, too.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Wish I could help on the logistics, but the only way I keep humidity low is by living where it's low. My favorite places are the mountains, where the summers are cool, the air is dry (in certain areas) and you can use filtered outside air nearly year round to cool your lung room.

 

[ButterflyEffect]

Wish I could help on the logistics, but the only way I keep humidity low is by living where it's low. My favorite places are the mountains, where the summers are cool, the air is dry (in certain areas) and you can use filtered outside air nearly year round to cool your lung room.

Well, since I can't I'll have to hope I can control the environment enough to get it to those numbers. Either way the test ought to produce interesting results.

 

[Three Berries]

Ok. Nice! You're the second person to recommend the chloride. I will be picking some up in the very near future. Thank you very much for the advice!

Get some MgCl2 also if you are going to mix in any. Using MgSO4 you really have to be careful or you end up with CaSO4 and drops out of suspension if the ppm count gets too high, like when you pH at the end.
What I have the CaCl2 is liquid and the MgCl2 is solid but anhydrous and sucks up water. I think I'd rather have a liquid as it's easier to dose. Which I'll soon have if I just leave it open in a jar.

 

[Three Berries]

Well I found out you cannot use KOH to pH up with CaCl2 as the Ca just settles out as CaOH or slaked lime. Probably does the same thing to hard water and the bicarbonates.

So as the plants have gotten bigger they are getting daily doses of the CaCl2 and MgCl2 mix I use. 3/4 cup a day with the big ones.

 

[Creeperpark]

Well I found out you cannot use KOH to pH up with CaCl2 as the Ca just settles out as CaOH or slaked lime. Probably does the same thing to hard water and the bicarbonates.

So as the plants have gotten bigger they are getting daily doses of the CaCl2 and MgCl2 mix I use. 3/4 cup a day with the big ones.

Sounds interesting can you post photos so we can see what you are talking about TB.

 

[Three Berries]

They are all Granddaddy Purples. The one plant is first week in flower tent. Been giving it the 3/4 cup 1200 ppm CaCl2 with a pinch of MgCl2 every day for two weeks. May need to start twice a day. It shows the yellow tips. If I let ti go the whole leaf will yellow out. But the bottom leaves look great and very strong stems. This one has had this problem from the start and is over 2 months old. Stunted for the first month and yellow ever since. But getting a handle on it.

This is the veg tent and they have been getting the CaCl2 treatment since the start. Just a touch of yellow on one and the big one is growing at 2 nodes a day.

I use a 50 w FS cob purple light as a heater and cycle it on and off at 80F. This works great with the cool house temps.

 

[Three Berries]

I moved the other big one in to the flower tent and trimmed the bottom on the first plant. The Ca needs as shown by yellow tips is slowing down and not showing up on other plants. Especially the two smaller ones who have been getting it sooner.

But since the Ca issues has been sorted the VPD and temps have been working well together. With little need other than figuring out where the temps are going to be and a pause in ventilation until the temps are up to near terminal, usually about 15 minutes.

The flower tent with 300w of light the temps get up to the lower 80fs. And with the plants breathing well the humidity rises to keep the VPD in the 1.0-1.10 range with some mild ventilation. Same with the veg tent. As it runs cooler but still good humidity levels with little ventilation and no need to add.

So much so that when the VPD stats to get too high I know the plants need watered.

 

[ButterflyEffect]

I moved the other big one in to the flower tent and trimmed the bottom on the first plant. The Ca needs as shown by yellow tips is slowing down and not showing up on other plants. Especially the two smaller ones who have been getting it sooner.

But since the Ca issues has been sorted the VPD and temps have been working well together. With little need other than figuring out where the temps are going to be and a pause in ventilation until the temps are up to near terminal, usually about 15 minutes.

The flower tent with 300w of light the temps get up to the lower 80fs. And with the plants breathing well the humidity rises to keep the VPD in the 1.0-1.10 range with some mild ventilation. Same with the veg tent. As it runs cooler but still good humidity levels with little ventilation and no need to add.

So much so that when the VPD stats to get too high I know the plants need watered.

Sorry. Site didn't tell me there were any responses. Maybe it was the upgrade.

Anyway, I did get the CaCl foliar. It seems to have helped but frankly, I can't read the plants as well as I'd like to. I'm starting to get a better feel for it as time passes but there are so many variables to consider. That's why I was concerned about the hempy pots. I could never get a good read on the root one. Now that I've dialed back the vermiculite to a 12:1 ratio, the pots are much easier to rid of buildup. That, of course, does nothing to explain why the pH always reads around 7 no matter the input, which is usually 5.5.

Your plants look great, btw.