Question for Gray Wolf on Naptha vs Butane

[Snype]

Gray Wolf, I'm hoping that you can help me out with this. There's a member on this site that seems to be informative and he stated that Naptha Oil extractions are better than Butane extractions in treating cancer. From a personal perspective, I don't feel comfortable with using Naptha because of what is in it and I don't want to potentially hurt someone by those chemicals. Does that mean that Butane extractions will not fight my friends cancer? Do you have any knowledge to add to this subject?

 

[Green Supreme]

Perhaps he feels that way, cuz originally Simpson oil was a naptha extract. That has since changed I believe. Peace GS

 

[Gray Wolf]

Gray Wolf, I'm hoping that you can help me out with this. There's a member on this site that seems to be informative and he stated that Naptha Oil extractions are better than Butane extractions in treating cancer. From a personal perspective, I don't feel comfortable with using Naptha because of what is in it and I don't want to potentially hurt someone by those chemicals. Does that mean that Butane extractions will not fight my friends cancer? Do you have any knowledge to add to this subject?

Rick Simpson and his circle believes that Naphtha is the only effective solution, but my own experience doesn't support that. We've had successes with BHO and QWET as well.

It is the cannabis plant that produces the life saving medicine and both Butane and Naphtha both simply take all that is there.

Kudos to Rick for what he has added to the cannabis movement, but I seriously disagree with specifying Naphtha. Naphtha simply specifies a boiling point range of between 30C and 200C, not what is in it.

Some Naphtha contain Benzene, a carcinogen.

Even if it is correctly called "Light Naphtha", to specify a boiling point between 30C and 90C, it may still contain Benzene.

Some Light Naphtha's like Coleman stove fuel, also contain Heptane, which boils at 99C/210F and is hard to purge.

We prefer Pentane or Hexane, which are the simple alkanes boiling between 30C and 90C.hurt someone by those chemicals. Does that mean that Butane extractions will not fight my friends cancer? Do you have any knowledge to add to this subject?
__________________

 

[Snype]

Rick Simpson and his circle believes that Naphtha is the only effective solution, but my own experience doesn't support that. We've had successes with BHO and QWET as well.

It is the cannabis plant that produces the life saving medicine and both Butane and Naphtha both simply take all that is there.

Kudos to Rick for what he has added to the cannabis movement, but I seriously disagree with specifying Naphtha. Naphtha simply specifies a boiling point range of between 30C and 200C, not what is in it.

Some Naphtha contain Benzene, a carcinogen.

Even if it is correctly called "Light Naphtha", to specify a boiling point between 30C and 90C, it may still contain Benzene.

Some Light Naphtha's like Coleman stove fuel, also contain Heptane, which boils at 99C/210F and is hard to purge.

We prefer Pentane or Hexane, which are the simple alkanes boiling between 30C and 90C.hurt someone by those chemicals. Does that mean that Butane extractions will not fight my friends cancer? Do you have any knowledge to add to this subject?
__________________

Thanks for your input!

 

[gunnaknow]

Butane, pentane, hexane. All will extract very efficiently and typically contain alot less benzene and toluene than naphtha. Hexane can still contain a reasonable amount of benzene, however, unless you buy food grade hexane, which is prohibited from containing more than 0.05% benzene.

 

[SkyHighLer]

Rick Simpson and his circle believes that Naphtha is the only effective solution, but my own experience doesn't support that. We've had successes with BHO and QWET as well.

It is the cannabis plant that produces the life saving medicine and both Butane and Naphtha both simply take all that is there.

Kudos to Rick for what he has added to the cannabis movement, but I seriously disagree with specifying Naphtha. Naphtha simply specifies a boiling point range of between 30C and 200C, not what is in it.

Some Naphtha contain Benzene, a carcinogen.

Even if it is correctly called "Light Naphtha", to specify a boiling point between 30C and 90C, it may still contain Benzene.

Some Light Naphtha's like Coleman stove fuel, also contain Heptane, which boils at 99C/210F and is hard to purge.

We prefer Pentane or Hexane, which are the simple alkanes boiling between 30C and 90C.hurt someone by those chemicals. Does that mean that Butane extractions will not fight my friends cancer? Do you have any knowledge to add to this subject?
__________________

I get Bp 35-60C petroleum ether via ebay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Petroleum-E...905?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a826f1bf9

"Petroleum ether, also known as benzine, VM&P naphtha (varnish makers' & painters'), petroleum naphtha, naphtha ASTM, petroleum spirits, X4 or ligroin, is a group of various volatile, highly flammable, liquid hydrocarbon mixtures used chiefly as nonpolar solvents. Chemically, it is not an ether like diethyl ether, but a light hydrocarbon.
Petroleum ether is obtained from petroleum refineries as the portion of the distillate which is intermediate between the lighter naphtha and the heavier kerosene. It has a specific gravity of between 0.6 and 0.8 depending on its composition. The following distillation fractions of petroleum ether are commonly available: 30 to 40 °C, 40 to 60 °C, 60 to 80 °C, 80 to 100 °C, 80 to 120 °C and sometimes 100 to 120 °C. The 60 to 80 °C fraction is often used as a replacement for hexane. Petroleum ether is mostly used by pharmaceutical companies and in the manufacturing process. Petroleum ether consists mainly of pentane, and is sometimes used instead of pentane due to its lower cost.[1]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_ether

 

[m314]

I know BHO is ideal for smoking and vaping. I get higher yields with longer iso or ethanol washes, though. I actually use the already run buds / trim from BHO to do a longer alcohol wash to make oil for tinctures. The oil from those extractions is too harsh to smoke, but it's great for the small doses I take orally.

Is there a downside to soaking overnight in isopropanol for a higher yield if the product is going to be ingested? Assuming an ethanol purge to get rid of any iso in the final product. I've had zero ill effects from ingesting "green" oil, but I've never tried high doses like a gram a day. I'm going to be making some larger batches soon for a family member so I'd like to be sure.

If naphtha is used for the extraction, would an ethanol purge remove the benzene or other harmful components from the final product?

 

[cron_don]

Hi, I am new here and i saw this thread, and wanted to comment.

I think that the reason why rick simpson uses naphtha as opposed to butane is because when you are extracting thc with butane, the majority of butane evaporates quickly. Because of this quick evaporation, the thc does not decarboxylate. When extracting thc from naphtha and cooked with the rice cooker, the naphtha reaches temperatures that decarboxylate the thc. I think that is why he is able to claim that his oil that he is making is ranging from 95-98%thc. So because the butane method does not decarb while extracting, naphtha is the superior method to treating cancer. However, if the BHO was then cooked to the temperatures after to decarb the thca to thc, then i would think that both oils are good. This now brings up another question...If you were to test BHO vs RSO (rick simpson oil, or method) in a lab to test thc%, would BHO be less in theory because they are testing for THC and not THCA? IMO and experience, i think that naphtha is best eating and inhaling.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Hi, I am new here and i saw this thread, and wanted to comment.

I think that the reason why rick simpson uses naphtha as opposed to butane is because when you are extracting thc with butane, the majority of butane evaporates quickly. Because of this quick evaporation, the thc does not decarboxylate. When extracting thc from naphtha and cooked with the rice cooker, the naphtha reaches temperatures that decarboxylate the thc. I think that is why he is able to claim that his oil that he is making is ranging from 95-98%thc. So because the butane method does not decarb while extracting, naphtha is the superior method to treating cancer. However, if the BHO was then cooked to the temperatures after to decarb the thca to thc, then i would think that both oils are good. This now brings up another question...If you were to test BHO vs RSO (rick simpson oil, or method) in a lab to test thc%, would BHO be less in theory because they are testing for THC and not THCA? IMO and experience, i think that naphtha is best eating and inhaling.

With all due respect to Rick, as he isn't further purifying his Naphtha extracts, to remove non polar waxes and the other longer chain terpenes, it would be a feat of magic to achieve 95 to 98% THC.

No one who seriously looked at a cannabis essential profile would make that claim, so I infer Rick has been lead astray.

When run in a GC, the THCA carboxylic acid is decarboxylated by the heat from the hot GC process, so it shows as THC.

The difference between Methane, Ethane, Propane, Butane, Pentane, and Hexane, is just the length of the molecule. They are otherwise identical.

Both Naphtha and Butane fully dissolve the trichome heads, which is where the cannabinoids are. By what mechanism is Butane then dropping those out and leaving them behind?

Rick gave us much of our insight as to what was possible medically using cannabis, but is not a doctor or a technocrat, and has made some statements that a doctor or a technocrat would not have.

I personally love him and embrace the good that he has given us, but embrace his technical information only after vetting it myself.


I suggest that you also consider the reams of other successful scientific studies from around the world, using cannabinoids extracted by other means and how that fits in with Rick's Naphtha theory.

 

[gardenfather]

Gray Wolf, I have a few questions, What tools should I buy to do your method Hexane Honey Oil extraction and alchemy? Is this basically the same thing, what I mean does it also make an oil? Like R.S? but your method?

Im trying to extract CBDs from my buds for the most part, but I would also like to extract THC from it as well. Im trying to find the safest way of doing it. I keep hearing mixed reviews with Naphtha, butane and Alcohol.

Im willing to try your way and buy any tools I need. Thanks

 

[mowood3479]

thanks again gray wolf, i have been wondering why naptha was the suggested solvent for making 'RSO'....
at what temp and for how long does bho need to be heated to decarb? for edible consumption that is...

 

[cron_don]

Has anyone who made oil out of naphtha ever tested their thc content? Who ever controls his FB account (Jindrich Bayer) posted oil test @ 95% thc. made via ricks method of using naphtha. Another factor that plays a role in achieving that thc content was in the thc content in the starting material... Rick was claiming to achieve this high percentage oil by using a high grade starting material at greater or equal to 20%thc. but another question is, what is the saturation point of the naphtha and thc? or any solvent?

 

[Gray Wolf]

Gray Wolf, I have a few questions, What tools should I buy to do your method Hexane Honey Oil extraction and alchemy? Is this basically the same thing, what I mean does it also make an oil? Like R.S? but your method?

Im trying to extract CBDs from my buds for the most part, but I would also like to extract THC from it as well. Im trying to find the safest way of doing it. I keep hearing mixed reviews with Naphtha, butane and Alcohol.

Im willing to try your way and buy any tools I need. Thanks

You can extract with Hexane using a canning jar, or similar container to soak the material in. It is really non polar, so I have soaked up to 12 hours at ambient and still gotten pristine extractions. I just set it in the shade and shake and burp it every time I remember.

You can evaporate off the Hexane, speed that up with fans, distill it off, boil it off with heat, or cold boil it off with vacuum.

Another name for Naphtha is White Gas, which typically is a high percentage of Hexane. Note that White Gas and Gasoline are one and the same, except for additives and dyes. That means that you have to treat it with the same care as if you were using gasoline and do it outdoors with adequate ventilation and no ignition sources

I infer that Rick's choice of a rice cooker for that purpose, was to keep the heat low enough to not burn the oil. I prefer to use a hot Canola oil bath in a Quisinart electric fondue pot, and a laser thermometer to monitor the temperature. The key point in both Rick's and my process, is that they both stress the importance of maintaining the temperature. In my case I prefer a 250F oil bath for that purpose.

Check out the attached picture of the stainless bain marie pot in the fondue bath, and the decarboxylation graph, complements of Jump 117. Also note that the picture is of the bain marie and fondue pot system and doesn't have Hexane in it.

Hexane or Naphtha are hard to purge below sensory threshold, and although Rick theorizes that adding water raises the temperature high enough to accomplish that end, we haven't found that to be the case.

Vacuum purging helps, but redissolving the hexane extract in ethanol and boiling off the alcohol, helps remove the residuals to below the 130 ppm sensory threshold.

As a tongue in cheek thought with regard to RSO, since by the nature of the process used, it does have residual Naphtha present, those would tie up the liver processing them, so as to leave the cannabinoids untouched longer, to do their thing.

We remove our solvent below 130ppm and add coconut oil for that purpose instead, so you might check out the sticky thread on Holy Anointing Oil and HS Oil, for our formulation.

 

[gardenfather]

Thanks for the info

 

[gardenfather]

just one question, I see lots of people say to use 100% pure alcohol? they said its safer to use. I've never made this so I have no idea, plus Id like to know if it can produce the same effects? help fight cancer and other illnesses. Is there any chance you can make a video or have a photo step by step instruction how you do it? I see the video for R.S way, but im trying to see your way + Holy Anointing Oil. I feel like im missing some steps.

Thanks

 

[Gray Wolf]

Yes, you can use alcohol and it is less flammable than butane or hexane. It is polar, so it is less forgiving from a process standpoint, so we do alcohol extractions only on frozen material.

We have video's on our 2013 project list, but were pretty disappointed at the quality of our first attempt, so we're working with a movie professional, and will have something out later this year.

 

[gardenfather]

Sweet I cant wait .

 

[gardenfather]

is this any good http://www.amazon.com/N-hexane-High-Purity-32oz-1000ml/dp/B009J4CQTG

 

[Gray Wolf]

A 99% Laboratory reagent grade should work. The below outlines why commercial grades are not a good idea.

http://www.athe thieving con-man's placer.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp113-c3.pdf

 

[gardenfather]

G.F Do you do your own THC/CBD Percentage testing? if so what are you using to get your results? For some reason I cant click on ur link. Also can your tell me where I can order some?

Also what tools are u using to make ur oil? i see ur lab jealous lol