Pyroligneous Acid (Wood Vinegar, Liquid Smoke)

[BillFarthing]

I'm a huge advocate for beneficial organic acids in the garden. It can help complex nutrients and works as IPM for pests and disease. One novel place they can be found is with Pyroligneous acid. It is also known as wood vinegar or liquid smoke.



If you pick a brand of liquid smoke to use in the garden, make sure there are no added flavorings. Seek Bamboo vinegar is available on Amazon. They had a neat little flyer with some background information and dosage instructions:

View image in gallery​

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[Cvh]

I never heard of it before. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Glaucksbacon]

TY Bill, I was curious what was going on with wood vinegar since I saw you mention it in the other thread. Deciding on if I should try this as a soil conditioner or not. Gotta work in the Dr Fulvic before I introduce anything else, one at a time, but maybe that'll be next.

 

[TdotGonG]

You Can make this also. Here is how I remember making liquid smoke.



-soak wood chips quick in water like 2-5 mins. put them into a metal bowl that is fire safe, after the soak


Inside of that bowl put a fire brick vertically(wash the fire brick off before use). and move the chips so that the brick touches the bottom of the bowl, and the chips surround the brick.



-GRAB ANOTHER METAL BOWL THAT HAS A LARGER DIAMETER THAN THE ONE THE CHIPS AND BRICK ARE IN! THIS IS IMPORTANT. Grab a pyrex plate or collection plate that can handle high heat. And has enough diameter to surpass the perimeter of the largest bowl.




-Take the heat proof tray and put the bowl with the wood chips and brick inside. Then take the larger bowl and invert it upside down on the top of the brick. Take a ice pack preferable one that is malleable and drape it over the inverted top bowl.



-Light the wood chips on fire and get them smouldering. then blow out the flame and let the chips smoulder.









The cool surface of the top inverted bowl will condense the wood smoke and cause condensation to form on the side of the bowl. the tray you put the bowl with chips into will be the res where the drips will be collected.





DO NOT USE TRASH WOOD. GET GOOD UNTREATED NATURAL LUMBER PREFERABLY SHIT YOU DRIED YOU'RE SELF. AND DON'T CUT THE SHIT WITH A CHAINSAW LIKE I DID OR YOU'RE SHIT WILL HAVE BAR OIL IN IT LMFAO HAHAHAHAHA, those pork chops tasted like shit! . as for the type of chips. I got no bloody clue, I did this for culinary purpose. Assuming what bill posted is the same stuff as what I'm talking about, you will have a lifetime supply for maybe 2 hours worth of work.

 

[BillFarthing]

You can make a usable amount of liquid smoke with clean wood, a chiminea, a couple metal bowls and ice.



If you want to see more information, look up the research paper called "Production, prospects and potential application of pyroligneous acid in agriculture". It's good reading.

 

[ADHDGrower]

Thank you Bill for bringing this up, im very interested in this and im currently trying to source Bamboo Wood Vinegar in Europe.

You stated multiple Times you like Fulvic and Wood Vinegar, whats your Take on Amino Acids?

I had some noticable Results using a Peptide Mix in midflower.

 

[BillFarthing]

Mr. Fulvic already contains amino acids. If your fulvic source does not have them, you can simply add a gram of hydrolyzed whey or soy protein to 5 gallons (20L) of feed.

 

[ButterflyEffect]

Just something to be aware of when using this product, it will drop your pH very low. I've been using it intermittently now for a few weeks and I'm eager to see how it works on smell and taste.

I wonder if a foliar would have the same benefits?

You can buy a gallon of it on amazon for around $23, fyi.

 

[BillFarthing]

Just something to be aware of when using this product, it will drop your pH very low. I've been using it intermittently now for a few weeks and I'm eager to see how it works on smell and taste.

I wonder if a foliar would have the same benefits?

You can buy a gallon of it on amazon for around $23, fyi.

The pH is 2.5. If using tap water, it might not be an issue, but RO, you're probably going to have to get some pH up.

Foliar use gets rid of bugs and mold very effectively. It also works as a surfactant when mixing other IPM inputs.

If you found it for $23 a gallon, that's a deal.

 

[moses wellfleet]

The pH is 2.5. If using tap water, it might not be an issue, but RO, you're probably going to have to get some pH up.

Foliar use gets rid of bugs and mold very effectively. It also works as a surfactant when mixing other IPM inputs.

If you found it for $23 a gallon, that's a deal.

Have you tried it on powdery mildew?

 

[ButterflyEffect]

The pH is 2.5. If using tap water, it might not be an issue, but RO, you're probably going to have to get some pH up.

Foliar use gets rid of bugs and mold very effectively. It also works as a surfactant when mixing other IPM inputs.

If you found it for $23 a gallon, that's a deal.

I use rainwater, so I do see swings. I might add it as a surfactant to my IPM instead of the Dr Bonners soap. The soap increases my pH and I'm always trying to bring it down to around 6.0. The smoke might keep me where I need to be without any other adjustments.

 

[BillFarthing]

Have you tried it on powdery mildew?

It works:



https://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S2447-536X2020000100057


http://www.woodvinegarusa.com/pyroligneous-acid---wood-vinegar-.html

 

[Drewsif]

I always though creosote from the chimney would have some use. I suppose wood vinegar is refined creosote more or less (in other words, can creosote be cleaned, bottled and sold at the hydro store?)

 

[BillFarthing]

I always though creosote from the chimney would have some use. I suppose wood vinegar is refined creosote more or less (in other words, can creosote be cleaned, bottled and sold at the hydro store?)

The tar settles out, so it is just the soluble and aromatic compounds like organic acids.

 

[moses wellfleet]

If you were to smoke wood chips in your bong, the bong water would be wood vinegar if I am understanding correctly?

 

[G.O. Joe]

Smoke is not the same. It's a charcoal byproduct - dry wood heated without air and combustion. The composition varies with the process and post-processing. This is why methanol was called wood alcohol. Wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that the reason why it kills things is because it's toxic?

 

[BillFarthing]

Wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that the reason why it kills things is because it's toxic?

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=pyroligneous+acid+biostimulant


Eastern culture uses it as a detox. The organic acids created from the breakdown of lignin and cellulose are very beneficial. As for being toxic, the dose makes the poison, so even water can kill you.

 

[G.O. Joe]

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=pyroligneous+acid+biostimulant


Eastern culture uses it as a detox. The organic acids created from the breakdown of lignin and cellulose are very beneficial. As for being toxic, the dose makes the poison, so even water can kill you.

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=pyroligneous+acid+biocide

Eastern culture uses it as a poison. The acetic acid created from the breakdown of lignin and cellulose is ordinary acetic acid. As for being toxic, the chemical makes the poison, so water is a bad reference point for toxicity.

Plants grow better after forest fires because of the smoke, seriously? Are there comparative experimental results of any kind using this product applied at the rates they advise? Where are the testimonials about this wonder drug? Apologies for being less than attracted by marketing and cooperative efforts between value-added industry and college students needing to write papers.

The product of the classic method is nothing foreign or exotic - all the methanol, acetic acid/acetate, and acetone sold for some time came from hardwood PA. It was half the weight of the dry wood and 81% water, 8% acetic acid. How much of this $120/gallon product is water? You could buy 5 gallons of 100% acetic acid for less. Considering your sig and all.

It's just amusing that the membership - who generally get out the torches and pitchforks at the mention of acetone and methanol pure from a can - lovingly embrace chemicals when they're extremely impure and poured on their plants.

 

[BillFarthing]

Plants grow better after forest fires because of the smoke, seriously?

Like terra prieta or slash and burn agriculture? It's not just acetic acid, it's HULIS (humic-like substances) and all the organic acids like gallic, succinic and malonic acid that are beneficial to plants as well.


My weed has no pests or mold, high brix and passes all testing, by the way.

 

[G.O. Joe]

Smoke as a reason for temporary growth effects after fire sounds like marketing unsupported by logic or evidence. Why not citric acid - I saw no difference in my plants with or without it. Perhaps that would have been better in soil. If you want to add acids it seems wise to know what and how much you're adding.