Psychosis

[nahtanoj]

Apologies if this is posted in the wrong section but I'd love some feedback and opinions.

As per my intro thread, I'm almost 30 and had never smoked marijuana.. until 5 weeks ago. I had to ditch my grow due to the summer heat but I did manage to find someone who I could purchase 1 oz from - no idea on what strain or how it was grown etc etc.

I'll preempt what I'm going to say by stating my father, his brother and their father are all schizophrenics. It's a big part of the reason why I avoided marijuana for the longest time. I figured at almost age 30, I'd probably be OK given I had never experienced any psychotic symptoms before.

About 5-6 weeks ago, I purchased an oz and started smoking every single day - from the moment I started smoking, I found it was something I wanted to feel all the time.

Over a period of 2 weeks, I managed to smoke half of it. I don't have the experience to say if this is a little or a lot and not knowing what type of strain it is also makes it difficult. I would spread it out from the moment I woke up until I went to bed.

It didn't take much to get the desired effect but after about 2 weeks, I had a psychotic episode; thought broadcasting, thought insertion and ideas of reference. I didn't completely buy into my delusions as I had some insight into them but I wasn't completely sure either; it was the most terrifying experience of my life. It started while under the influence but continued the day after at which point I called the crisis team for assistance.

The psych at the hospital thought that my insight into what was going on combined with my symptoms quickly resolving meant it was a drug induced pyschosis and not schizophrenia but still inline with a first episode pyschosis. He warned me not to use marijuana or any other drugs such as speed as the next episode could be much worse and develop into a mental health problem. After speaking with my dad, he said I might develop subtle symptoms (his experience) over the coming months but only time will tell.

They had me on valium and olanzapine (15mg) for a few days but once I was changed from involuntary admission to voluntary, I checked myself out and stopped taking the anti-pyschotic. They didn't agree with my choice and suggested I continue taking it for a period of 3 months but it turned me into a complete zombie and I could feel myself returning to normal.

I've not had any recurring symptoms since and I'm pretty much back to normal although I have not smoked any marijuana since that time. I figure even if I decide to smoke it again, it's probably best to give it a rest for a good period of time. I went from not ever smoking to smoking it constantly over 2 weeks. Besides the psychosis, I completely understand why people want to smoke it 24/7.

I know a lot of people will say that there is no link between schizophrenia,psychosis and marijuana while others will argue there is. Given my own personal experience, I can say there is some type of connection between marijuana and psychosis for people who have a predisposition to it. I think a simple analogy would be peanuts; some people can eat them with zero issues while for some, it's life threatening yet we don't ban peanuts.

Obviously given the history of schizophrenia in my family, I fall into a high risk category but I wonder if smoking high CBD strains would avoid such a risk of psychosis again.

This is just my personal experience, I'm not looking to stop others from smoking or even suggesting it. I'd love to hear from people who have had similar experiences and decided to smoke again and see what happened to them. My gut instinct tells me to leave it alone but another part of me wants to continue smoking if possible with a high CBD strain.

Thoughts?

 

[Stoner4Life]

welcome to the boards jon, imo you need to find yourself in a high end MMJ dispensary somewhere, hopefully they have a full assortment of strains, buds, hash products, edibles etc... that are rated in both THC & CBD levels. Again you'll hopefully find a clerk or budtender who is knowledgeable enough to guide you through some options.......


it would be best to be there to effectively research what works best for you then figure out how what when & where to grow those meds for yourself.

 

[Kalicokitty]

Scary stuff, I don't know what to tell you in this case as I'm not an expert in such matters, and am hesitant to dispense laymans advice about such a serious condition.


Good luck with things.

 

[Midnight]

I'd go with your gut, ditch the weed and get back on your meds!

 

[CannaBunkerMan]

The British government is behind the PROPEGANDA that makes a causal relationship between smoking pot and schizophrenia. There is no real evidence that pot CAUSES schizophrenia. It is just as possible that schizophrenics are more likely to be pot smokers because it helps them find relief from their symptoms.

 

[ItGrowsHerb]

I went through a psychosis for the first time in March. Currently I am visiting a therapist twice a month.

In the weeks leading up to my episode, I smoked constantly, rather more than needed, even dropping or cutting appointments in order to go home and smoke. This was when I knew I was out of control a bit, but was already getting caught up with this elaborate plan to start helping the world (repair the damaged reactors in Japan, indict those responsible for financial greed, etc.) Then I was at a point where I stopped smoking but was now energetically accomplishing things, and eventually someone disagreed with me and I became insistent, at which point I was beaten up by two men.

In the medical ward I came back to my senses but remembered what went through my head. It was spiritual so a lot of it is unexplainable. I stopped smoking for a few months untiil it was time again.

I don't have a history of schizophrenia in my family. A lot of things culminated in my life at thirty-six. The homegrown smoke (Blubonic) spaced me out in the face of my real life problems. A lot of good came out of my episode too, such as my father moving back to be with me and my siblings.

Master your fears, and then try smoking again. I am off meds, and feel great again. Thanks for sharing!

 

[ganjaboymagic]

I too have a family history of schizophrenia. I've been smoking weed off and on (mostly on, daily) since I was 15 (late 20s now). I've experienced some really "heady," nearly scary effects from it, to the level of a "panic attack," whatever that might be. I am pretty good at not freaking out outwardly even if I'm going nuts on the inside. Sometimes I seek out strains and concentrates that will produce these effects, because I actually like them when I'm in the right frame of mind.

Weed has almost always been a good thing in my life. My parents never made a big deal out of my smoking. The worst of my experiences was when I was young and couldn't find any weed to buy. Life then would be a little irritating, and I wouldn't sleep as well, but it was never a big deal. If I have to stop smoking weed after smoking for a long time, I know going in it'll be about 3 days before I sleep right again. So I stay up for three days straight reading, writing, thinking, and goofing off.. Done it a bunch of times.

I have an obsessive, addictive personality. I have trouble relaxing. I have to constantly stress myself out or else I get depressed. Stress is exciting, and I like excitement. If I like something I am apt to want to do it a whole lot. These tendencies are balanced by respectable levels of self control. I can stop doing things I like, but usually only after I've done way too much. This applies to everything, work, school, friends, women, drugs, fitness. Alcohol will fucking destroy me if I use it like I do weed. I've stopped smoking weed to drink only to get really worried at what's happening to my body and mind after a month or two of constant drinking, at which point I switched back to weed, employers and naysayers be damned. It's my fucking life, and I will do what's good for me.

I get so into things like work and thinking that I forget to take care of myself, to shower, to eat, to brush my teeth. Believe it or not, smoking weed helps me to put things into perspective, to realize what's important, to slow down and take care of myself. People at work know something isn't quite right when I'm not taking care of myself the way I should be. They kindly remind me to get right again, that they miss me. I am surrounded by a lot of really great people.

I've never thought I needed help as a result of smoking weed. The heady, scary effects are for the most part just stressful enough for me that they're entertaining and not particularly scary. Sometimes I look forward to them. If what you're feeling is bad enough to get help for, your best bet is to listen to YOUR BODY AND YOUR MIND and do what's right for YOU.

I've been described as idiosyncratic and eccentric. But I am a fully normal, working professional at a multinational corporation. They trust me with tens of millions of dollars. I get along with people fine. Coworkers, clients, and the people I am in charge of like and respect me, even if they think I'm a bit nuts - in a good way, of course.

Fitness is a really funny aspect of my life. I get addicted to making cardio gains and push my body to the breaking point and then some - all for the sake of feeling euphoric when my body starts freaking out and opens the endorphin flood-gates to kill the pain. I run even when I know I have no business running, just to get an endorphin rush. People think of running and working out as "good for you," but, the way addictive people like me sometimes do it, I understand the ways in which the fitness muse can be self destructive. My ACLs are barely on the edge of needing fixing, gotta be careful running (even walking) around corners. Doctor told me to wait for them to completely blow out before getting them fixed because, at this point, the fix might not be any better than the problem. A little pain (even a lot) has never bothered me. My physical therapist taught me how to do leg exercises to make up for my fucked up knees, without which I wouldn't be able to walk, let alone run, very well. With that said, I will most likely need new knees here pretty soon. I am a few years shy of 30, and I will need new knees soon, despite the fact that I'm not a professional athlete. I am guilty of over-training, over-working, and over-thinking.

I don't use narcotic painkillers because I know I am an addict. That's one rabbit hole I want nothing to do with. A couple years ago a dentist asked me if I needed anything after a root canal, and I told him hell no I got a shit ton of weed at home that I can smoke until the pain disappears. His response was "Awesome, whatever works."

This is just my experience. Please do what's good for you and not me.

 

[longearedfriend]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEglHjd_gUQ

terrence mckenna's view on schizophrenia

 

[el dub]

I'd stay away from weed if'n I were you. Especially if your first inclination is to head to the psyche ward when the rubber hits the road.

Weed isn't for everyone. I think you had an inkling of that due to family history. Now you have personal experience to back it up.

lw

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

This is a subject with which I've had great interest. My older brother changed significantly during his early twenties. His thoughts at times could only be described as psychotic. Schizophrenic could apply here. He doesn't like the meds the doctors want him on. Hasn't had a job in forty years. He copes and functions in his own ways though and lives within society. Many in my family assume it was induced by his cannabis habit.

The changes that occur with schizophrenia and some other psychological conditions usually hit the individual in late adolescence-early adulthood. This also is the time when a person would be experimenting with mind altering substances such as cannabis. So by this very fact of timing, determining causation is difficult. It is also well documented that schizophrenics are more likely to desire to consume cannabis so determination of cause becomes even more complicated.

I imagine that you are aware of the political convolutions around the history of cannabis consumption in the US. For many reasons having nothing to do with health the plant has been demonized. By it's illegality and role in our culture wars, trying to find legitimate information regarding its health effects is extremely difficult. If you want to do research to show that pot is harmful you can get funding. If you publish papers concluding that pot is harmful you are guaranteed more funding and will able to make a comfortable living doing so. Brown University in London is a classic example here. They've made an institution of negative cannabis research. But it cuts both ways. I read an account of a Canadian study on THC induced anxiety in mice published on the NORMAL website which only mentioned the positive findings about adults and left out the findings that young mice were permanently altered for the worse by the experience. It's difficult to obtain unbiased information. At least on this site you'll avoid the negative bias, and if you're lucky get comments from some informed and objective individuals.

There was one study, that I really wish I'd saved the webpage article for because the link is now inactive, which compared the blood flow to regions within the brain as a measure of brain activity, a perfusion brain scan. They scanned the brains of schizophrenics and compared them with the brains of people under the influence of THC (unsure here whether it was real cannabis or synthetically derived). The scans showed a remarkable similarity between the brain regions with enhanced activity. The results were very sobering.

Over the last five years I've made it a point to read blog comments regarding cannabis effects upon the individual. People tell some interesting stories. One thing I learned is that there is a wide range of effects. Some years ago the LA Times ran an article about cannabis and an incredible number of individuals wrote in and described their life experiences with the substance. It took me four days to read through all the comments. One person described an experience their freshman year at college. His roommate smoked pot for the first time, only once, and entered a permanent psychotic state.

I think the effect is real, but very rare. For what it's worth, in one blog discussion an individual who said they were involved in psychiatric research and came across as very informed and objective regarding these issues, said she/he thought the number of susceptible individuals were probably somewhere around one in every three thousand people who try cannabis.

If you ask me, I'd say that for a very few individuals the effect is real. They are already walking along a knife edge but don't realize it. Their brains and body chemistry are such that introducing THC into their system can trigger changes that push them over that threshold. From what you've described about your family history and experience smoking for the first time, I'd say that there is a very likely chance that you are one of these very few susceptible individuals. I think you should avoid cannabis like the plague. You fully understand the magnitude of the consequences if this goes wrong for you.

 

[longearedfriend]

I empathize with these people and their families

 

[SeaMaiden]

I have a little experience (more than a little) with schizophrenics, and it is a disease NOT to be fucked around with. If it's causing a temporary psychosis, it's my opinion that the OP should not mess around with it (smoking weed) anymore. While the suggestion that weed causes schizophrenia itself is specious, if we're talking about someone with a history and propensity (I don't think the OP is being entirely honest, not if he has a crisis team already, that suggests strongly to me that he's already received/receiving psychiatric intervention), then I would strongly also advise that person to avoid weed.

In fact, we have a friend whose wife has been (very quickly) approved for SSI disability benefits due in part to schizophrenia being one of the diagnoses, and I am extremely careful about what I share with them. She's already demonstrated a real lack of boundaries, last thing I want is for my weed to spur a severe psychotic episode.

You're not self-medicating, but you may very well be inducing episodes, and you know this. If you're not experiencing any types of psychosis when you're not using weed, then why start now? You know how it goes, early onset vs later onset, but honestly, does it matter when onset occurs? Isn't the entire point to avoid everything that comes along with schizophrenia?

I know what the anti-psychotics do, how they make you feel, I've seen it in others. But the alternative includes stuff like being 5150d, which can become a permanent inpatient scenario. Or being shunned by friends and family when it gets out of control. Most of the homeless people I've known were schizophrenics, too, so there is that to consider. In that grander scheme of things, even though I normally advocate in favor of smoking weed, if it's causing negative effects like that, I say drop it, don't do it.

 

[bozga]

Most of the homeless people I've known were schizophrenics, too, so there is that to consider.

It's because they feel they are not the part of our society, like drop offs - has anyone watched the video longearedfriend posted? It's all it is! Terrence McKenna is absolutely right. Every normal person would go crazy if your home was trash dumpster somewhere in the dirty big city and you don't have enough money to buy food. You suck car gases, drink and smoke and for sure your body and your mind becomes toxicated. Ugly business!
So its psychiatry, very ugly business! They do not cure "the disease", they diagnose and stuff you with heavy medications that make you a living zombie. Incapable to feel or to have a will to do something. We must overcome our own fears and face them. If we don't do it we'll always be weak. It's the part of the life process to get the grip on reality and develop our true character..... People need to take responsibility of what they do weather is smoking or not smoking weed.

 

[meduser180056]

I'm with Seamaiden on this one.

 

[Maina]

my friend we are in the same boat.I started smoking young and everything was fine.at 18 it went realy bad !I flipped out.It runs in my family Grandfarther mother aunts.I have tried it like 5 times in the last 15 years and Psychosis happens every time ,And I think Im never coming back from that bad trip.scares the shit out of me to think of it staying like that,and it does happen to some people.For some to say it doesnt happen they dont know jack shit!!! Its real its true and it sucks!I was told the cbd strains wont triger it .It has to be a 50/50 thow like 9 cbd 9 thc
I have some growing now we will see.Im a med grower for others and it helps them sooo much .just not me.
DOOOO not try it again inless its a cbd 50/50 you may not come back and your mind is somthing you do not want to loose
My mother has lost hers,and my aunt and my grand farther killed himself becouse of it.

 

[Maina]

It's because they feel they are not the part of our society, like drop offs - has anyone watched the video longearedfriend posted? It's all it is! Terrence McKenna is absolutely right. Every normal person would go crazy if your home was trash dumpster somewhere in the dirty big city and you don't have enough money to buy food. You suck car gases, drink and smoke and for sure your body and your mind becomes toxicated. Ugly business!
So its psychiatry, very ugly business! They do not cure "the disease", they diagnose and stuff you with heavy medications that make you a living zombie. Incapable to feel or to have a will to do something. We must overcome our own fears and face them. If we don't do it we'll always be weak. It's the part of the life process to get the grip on reality and develop our true character..... People need to take responsibility of what they do weather is smoking or not smoking weed.

oh great some one has it figured out I will tell my family the cure

 

[nahtanoj]

A mixed bag of responses which was what I was pretty much expecting.

I think the effect is real, but very rare. For what it's worth, in one blog discussion an individual who said they were involved in psychiatric research and came across as very informed and objective regarding these issues, said she/he thought the number of susceptible individuals were probably somewhere around one in every three thousand people who try cannabis.

Thanks for your thoughtful response. I pretty much agree with everything you've said especially the above.

I guess the typical counter-argument for some people might be that for most people it's difficult to tell if they have a susceptibility, therefore you shouldn't smoke marijuana and no-one else should be allowed to do so either due to the danger - not that I agree with that.

While the suggestion that weed causes schizophrenia itself is specious, if we're talking about someone with a history and propensity (I don't think the OP is being entirely honest, not if he has a crisis team already, that suggests strongly to me that he's already received/receiving psychiatric intervention), then I would strongly also advise that person to avoid weed.

I'm being honest nor do I have anything to gain from lying. Obviously, the health system in Australia works much different to how it does in America.

The public health system here provides a service known as CATS (Crisis Assessment and Treatment Service) that anyone can call to speak with a nurse who will then decide if it's necessary to send a DR to your home.

Most people living here probably don't even know about it but having grown up with a schizophrenic father, I am quite familiar with it and other services.

When my delusions continued the next morning, I knew I could call them to arrange assistance. Of course, I was only able to do this because I had some insight into what was happening. I wasn't under any psychiatric care prior to this either.


For those saying schizophrenia isn't real or that there isn't any kind of link between it and marijuana, I think you're wrong. With my father, I have seen how medication can have a beneficial effect yet I also agree that the pharma industry and DR's over prescribe all types of meds but it's not always the case.

I still support the right of the individual to make their own choice and recognise that mental illness and marijuana isn't an issue for most people but I think it can be for some like myself. The truth of the matter isn't really known and as previously mentioned, people from both sides of the argument often have a bias and agenda.

I guess what it all boils down to is that I really enjoyed smoking marijuana but given I am predisposed to schizophrenia and my awful psychotic episode after just 2 weeks of smoking means it's not a good idea. I am left feeling a little cheated and perhaps my OP was a bit of a tantrum as I have to accept it's just something that cannot be a part of my life. It's an interesting topic to discuss in any case.

 

[meduser180056]

You sound like you have a good handle on it. I have shizophrenic people in my life and you know how horrible it can be to see someone going through a psychosis with no way to really help them.

I'd say your sanity isn't worth risking. Being psychotic is a horrible experience for you and those who care about you as I'm sure you know. I think it's good you seem to realize that and are choosing not to use it.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Please make sure when dealing with doctors (american especially) that you take the time to really research the options they're giving you.

Many doctors are not fully aware of what they're giving you.

As scary as psychosis can be, permanent damage can be done unintentionally through Rx as well. I urge the homeopathic or other natural route as a first line defense, when at all possible.

Stay Safe!

 

[raypack]

If you are experiencing side effects like this it would seem to me like they outweigh the benefits even if nothing "permanent" happens. Well I suppose that depends on how manageable your pain is without cannabis, but if it is at all..