Playing with light cycles...just a what if.

[ThePhiloStoned]

I remember listening to DJ Short make his rounds some years ago touting the practice of alternative lighting for greater phenotypic expression...which got me think, so I did some calculations and realized that in my area the daylight times at the Summer solstice were 14/10 & 10/14 at the Winter solstice, which if DJ is right would mean the outdoor environment here would lead to greater phenotypic expression.

Which led me to start toying with indoor light cycles. I found the 14/10 to 10/14 switch worked very well for sativas & sativa-heavy hybrids...but I was thinking this scheme would use 85%-90% of the energy which may change the yield some but might make higher quality pot.

So my example is a rooted clone in a 15-gallon grow bag of LOS, if you grew it as normal you might veg for 15 weeks at 18/6 & flower for 8 week at 12/12...but what if you did 24/0 for 1 week, 18/6 for 7 weeks, 14/10 for 7 weeks, 12/12 for 4 weeks, then 11/13 for 1 week, 10/14 for 1 week, 9/15 for 1 week & 8/16 for 1 week? Would it yield much better phenotypic expression, possibly, would it reduce yield some, probably, would it be fun to test, absolutely.

 

[Switcher56]

Sounds like a massive headache LOL

 

[ThePhiloStoned]

Sounds like a massive headache LOL

Indeed, but most awesome things are, at first.

 

[Jammal]

its fun to play with but IMO not much worth the time,,but it does effect the phenotype expression...Light spectrum has interesting results on phenotype expression also..

some strains are more adaptable to the environment than others, I find sativa to be very adaptable...like flowering in a small pot will trigger flowering much earlier

 

[ThePhiloStoned]

Sounds like a massive headache LOL

Not nearly as much of a headache as the "sun" cycle light period scheme I came up with, where you start at 14/10 and subtract 90 seconds of sunlight every single day until the plants finish, similar to how the sun actually operates in relation to plants (around here at least)...I had dreams floating around my head of running outdoor crops from spring to fall & indoor crops from fall to spring with similar results...but I'm prolly just trippin'

 

[Breadwizard]

Edit : double post

 

[Lyfespan]

I remember listening to DJ Short make his rounds some years ago touting the practice of alternative lighting for greater phenotypic expression...which got me think, so I did some calculations and realized that in my area the daylight times at the Summer solstice were 14/10 & 10/14 at the Winter solstice, which if DJ is right would mean the outdoor environment here would lead to greater phenotypic expression.

Which led me to start toying with indoor light cycles. I found the 14/10 to 10/14 switch worked very well for sativas & sativa-heavy hybrids...but I was thinking this scheme would use 85%-90% of the energy which may change the yield some but might make higher quality pot.

So my example is a rooted clone in a 15-gallon grow bag of LOS, if you grew it as normal you might veg for 15 weeks at 18/6 & flower for 8 week at 12/12...but what if you did 24/0 for 1 week, 18/6 for 7 weeks, 14/10 for 7 weeks, 12/12 for 4 weeks, then 11/13 for 1 week, 10/14 for 1 week, 9/15 for 1 week & 8/16 for 1 week? Would it yield much better phenotypic expression, possibly, would it reduce yield some, probably, would it be fun to test, absolutely.

enter your area and check out the charts
https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/usa/san-bernardino

will tell you how long the days are

 

[ThePhiloStoned]

Realized that it would be nigh on impossible to do without some custom equipment and programming.

Well, it would certainly require an advanced timer (which they make and people use all the time in auto watering systems) and possibly a computer program to automate the incremental changes (perhaps an app on your phone) but the other (first one I posted) scheme would not be incredibly hard, most light timers could handle the 14/10 stuff.

 

[ThePhiloStoned]

enter your area and check out the charts
https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/usa/san-bernardino

will tell you how long the days are

Lol, I already know how long the days are...it was in the OP, 14 hours at Summer Solstice 10 hours at Winter Solstice.

 

[PDX Dopesmoker]

Not nearly as much of a headache as the "sun" cycle light period scheme I came up with, where you start at 14/10 and subtract 90 seconds of sunlight every single day until the plants finish, similar to how the sun actually operates in relation to plants (around here at least)...I had dreams floating around my head of running outdoor crops from spring to fall & indoor crops from fall to spring with similar results...but I'm prolly just trippin'

Mimicking outdoor light as closely as possible in your indoor grow seems about as common sense as it gets. If you were trippin' you'd probably have come up with something weirder.

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

I messed around with gradual day reduction instead of flipping from 16/8 to 12/12 a few times. Pretty sure I made a thread here about it. The plants grew like crazy during the reduction period and resulted in greatly increased yields. I didn't notice a difference in terpene production, but I have some awful smelly plants anyway, not sure I want more of that!

 

[ThePhiloStoned]

I messed around with gradual day reduction instead of flipping from 16/8 to 12/12 a few times. Pretty sure I made a thread here about it.

I'd love to track it down and read it.

The plants grew like crazy during the reduction period and resulted in greatly increased yields.

That's excellent news Greengenes (I've enjoyed many a thread of yours) can't wait to experiment with it...do you remember what light cycles you used?

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

That's excellent news Greengenes (I've enjoyed many a thread of yours) can't wait to experiment with it...do you remember what light cycles you used?

I don't remember exactly ThePhiloStoned, but I've been vegging at 16/8 for about the last 30 years, so that's most likely where I started. I'm pretty sure I took off about a half hour per week, so that would have taken 8 weeks to get down to 12/12. Plants started flowering at all different points in the reduction scheme, so it spread the finishing times out much wider than if they'd all been slammed under 12/12 in one shot.

A programmable timer to match daylength curves at various latitudes could really assist breeding outdoor cannabis indoors.

 

[ThePhiloStoned]

A programmable timer to match daylength curves at various latitudes could really assist breeding outdoor cannabis indoors.

Projects like that are the dream.
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So yeah I think I'll try a run from 18/6 to 10/14 (with different buds obviously finishing at different times) reducing one hour per week until I reach 10/14 and letting them finish under that...I'll ScrOG it to manage the canopy a little better...and it'd be nice to run an identical 18/6 to 12/12 in tandem to compare the results.

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

it'd be nice to run an identical 18/6 to 12/12 in tandem to compare the results.

Yeah, I wish I'd had the room to try that. But, even without the control, the increase in yield was pretty obvious. I was using the same size containers as I always do and had to water (and feed) like twice as much at peak flowering. If I grew commercially for flower, I'd probably try to incorporate some kind of scheme like this.

One interesting thing was the way different genetics reacted so differently to the gradual reduction. Some plants that normally didn't stretch much stretched like crazy, others didn't. Some started flowering earlier, but finished later. Others did the opposite. Basically, I ended with more questions than I intended to find answers to at the beginning.

 

[ThePhiloStoned]

One interesting thing was the way different genetics reacted so differently to the gradual reduction. Some plants that normally didn't stretch much stretched like crazy, others didn't. Some started flowering earlier, but finished later. Others did the opposite.

Sounds like a great tool for pheno hunting to me, imagine popping a couple hundred seeds of the same varietal and using this to help select.

 

[Hookahhead]

As far as the "complex timer" is concerned, it's stupid easy to do with an Arduino, a Real Time Clock add on, and a relay. If you decide to go this route let me know and I'll get you a parts list and the code.

Edit:

Parts List:

1. Arduino - Any Arduino board will work. The Uno R3 is a pretty popular board, and you can find cheap knock offs on Ebay. I have always had good luck using the cheaper boards, especially for something this simple. They are cheap enough that you can buy 2 or 3, just in case one craps out on you. Please note that the board uses a 5v micro USB for power, so if you don't have an extra one of these laying around it's easiest to buy them bundled with the board. You may also want to consider a board with Wifi capabilities (Uno R2 wifi), this way you can monitor and change the timer from a device connected to your network. The wifi capabilities eliminate the need for the next component, the real time clock.

2. Real Time Clock (RTC) - A RTC module has a clock chip, crystal, and battery built in one to make keeping time accurate and easy to use. I suggest something with the DS3231 chip. Use the picture for reference, these are also very cheap on Ebay. If you're using a board with Wifi, you can just acquire the time from the network/internet.

3. Relay - A relay functions as an on/off switch. An Arduino is a microprocessor and not intended to handle high voltages such as 110/220. To over come this we use a relay, the relay receives a signal from the Arduino, which turns the switch on or off. Most of them have at least 2 channels, which means you can control lights and a fan, or 2 light rails, or any 2 devices independently.

4. Jumper Cables - This is how we will connect the RTC and Relay to the Arduino board. Order the ones that have male on one side and female on the other. You can use any small gauge wire you have laying around if you prefer, but they are cheap and easier than hacking apart an old power supply like I did.

All of these items are very cheap, you can build a timer setup for less than $20. It will probably take me a few days, but I'll put together the code for you. If you can upload a picture to ICmag, you can upload a sketch (code) to the Arduino. After you feel comfortable playing with your new device, I can show you how to add a Temperature / Humidity sensor and other fun things.

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

Thanks a million Hookahhead! I'm sure this will be useful for many, and it's exactly what the doctor ordered for my needs. I'll see if I can DIY it myself(I'm good with audio electronics), and I'll pm you if a have trouble.

 

[Ibechillin]

Speaking of finishing at different times and increased yields, Ive seen claims of increasing yields a decent amount and minimizing larf by harvesting in sections over a few weeks instead of all at once. For example top 1/3 of plant, then like a week later mid 1/3 and then later bottom 1/3.

You have any experience harvesting plants in sections Mr. Greenegenes?

 

[xxPeacePipexx]

Speaking of finishing at different times and increased yields, Ive seen claims of increasing yields a decent amount and minimizing larf by harvesting in sections over a few weeks instead of all at once. For example top 1/3 of plant, then like a week later mid 1/3 and then later bottom 1/3.

You have any experience harvesting plants in sections Mr. Greenegenes?

Another possible great thread on your own part perhaps? I'm currently working with plants that either ripen from the top down while others ripen oppositely within the vastness of genetics I keep and work with. Then the odd one surfaces that seems to ripen individual flowers with no synchronization between the top and bottom. Sure there's a good amount of variables that can induce ripening at different stages and I have to think about these, as well as how genetics come into the equation. I have grown types that were definitely beneficial to harvest in sections beginning with the top third but most of the modern seems to ripen from the bottom upwards if they have adequate light penetration. But, the same plants could very well finish much different under the sun outdoors verses indoors under lights.