captain.koons
Member
What's easier to get? I want one.
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Pink Bubblegum vs Cherry AK-47
- Thread starter captain.koons
- Start date
captain.koons
Member
Simon says cherry ak is far more common for anyone interested.
Still, many people say you get something like 1 in 10 packs (i.e. 1 every 100 seeds)... Either you are very lucky with a single pack or it gets real expensive, considering AK is about 70 Euros a pack.
Some people claim AK48 by Nirvana is an F2, and F2s have much better pheno diversity, so you could get the pheno in an easier way, and Nirvana's seeds are 3 times cheaper... it is to be seen though whether it is an actual F2 or something else is bred into AK48...
the other option is to buy a pack of originals, do a seed run, and look into such F2s...
Some people claim AK48 by Nirvana is an F2, and F2s have much better pheno diversity, so you could get the pheno in an easier way, and Nirvana's seeds are 3 times cheaper... it is to be seen though whether it is an actual F2 or something else is bred into AK48...
the other option is to buy a pack of originals, do a seed run, and look into such F2s...
captain.koons
Member
I hope it's not that rare. I usually buy a strain and keep a mother for a grow or two and then give it to a friend to keep then sometimes I end up buying that same strain later on. I wonder if 1/10 packs is accurate because Simon said the Cherry AK was by far more common than the Pink Bubblegum.
Maybe I'll do a seed run I like the idea of having F1 keepers so I have more genetic variation if I decide to use it in a cross.
I'm not 100% sure, but I remember I saw a thread which said that, from seed, the cherry pheno in AK47 packs is still fairly rare and that in Nirvana's or in Sagarmatha's version it was easier to find it.
I guess though that everything is speculation, as few are the people that buy so many packs to actually be able to tell a percentage, and also in that case, when numbers are so low, you could get again a similar number of seeds, check back again for the pheno and get a different %... Getting 1 in 100 or 2 in 100, turned into packs, is like 1 in 10 and 1 in 5, it looks completely different...
the point i'm trying to make is that either you are very lucky, or as far as I know a pack shouldn't be enough to be sure to find the pheno...
If you make a seed run, I'm positive that you'll have so many F2s to actually get it...
but that means a fairly long project, you'd need like 3 months at least to get the seeds and then the hassle of sprouting 50-100 seeds and selecting till you find the cherry pheno... which would mean that you need also a place for clones (unless you want to go with cloning a flowering plant or revegging) and a lot of space and light to flower those seeds for a while, as I believe it will take some weeks of flowering for the cherry pheno to show up...
Sometimes I don't understand why, if this pheno is so sought after, Simon doesn't just keep inbreeding selecting for that trait... and sell a normal AK47 and a new Cherry pheno plant... as far as I know cherry is not a common flavor among sativa-leaning hybrids, if he or anybody did that, those packs would yield a fuckload of money... Looks like Simon doesn't need that, with 5 strains he sells already a lot... still it would be a nice new offer to the market, so I hope he'll do it soon
I guess though that everything is speculation, as few are the people that buy so many packs to actually be able to tell a percentage, and also in that case, when numbers are so low, you could get again a similar number of seeds, check back again for the pheno and get a different %... Getting 1 in 100 or 2 in 100, turned into packs, is like 1 in 10 and 1 in 5, it looks completely different...
the point i'm trying to make is that either you are very lucky, or as far as I know a pack shouldn't be enough to be sure to find the pheno...
If you make a seed run, I'm positive that you'll have so many F2s to actually get it...
but that means a fairly long project, you'd need like 3 months at least to get the seeds and then the hassle of sprouting 50-100 seeds and selecting till you find the cherry pheno... which would mean that you need also a place for clones (unless you want to go with cloning a flowering plant or revegging) and a lot of space and light to flower those seeds for a while, as I believe it will take some weeks of flowering for the cherry pheno to show up...
Sometimes I don't understand why, if this pheno is so sought after, Simon doesn't just keep inbreeding selecting for that trait... and sell a normal AK47 and a new Cherry pheno plant... as far as I know cherry is not a common flavor among sativa-leaning hybrids, if he or anybody did that, those packs would yield a fuckload of money... Looks like Simon doesn't need that, with 5 strains he sells already a lot... still it would be a nice new offer to the market, so I hope he'll do it soon
captain.koons
Member
Simon told me he's working on 2 new strains (they're nearing his approval)
The only similar strain between Simon and Tony(Sagmartha) is the Kali Mist/Western Winds. The slyder and AK aren't related both Simon and Tony have said this.
Pink bubblegum probably wouldn't be too much of a change as it's already lost it's vigor (Bubblegum is a slow starter) The AK-47 however would lose a lot of vigor to isolate that phenotype I'm not a genetics expert and it would also depend on how the breeder went about it. Example:
Genetic variation / Heterozygous is lost with every step towards isolation.
p1 = 100
f1 = 50
f2 = 25
f3 = 12.5
f4 = 6.25
f5 = 3
f6 = 1%
f7 = truely under 1% genetic variation (f5 and f6 were rounded down)
You lose vigor each generation as you're narrowing the gene pool (isolating traits) If you look at some heavily refined clones like Purple Urkle they veg slow as fuck because of this (Bubblegum displays this to some extent also)
I believe with lots of work the Pink bubblegum pheno could be rather common if you say had a F1 pink bubblegum and a F6 or F7 pink bubblegum and crossed them you would have the pheno coming up a lot and maintain vigor. To progeny test a male to display these traits could be a pain in the ass though.
I'm sure working on the same strain would become rather stale especially when you have new projects on the table.
Remember I'm just trying to provide information I could be incorrect about stuff but I believe that's how it works.
Nirvana's could very well provide more pink bubblegum but that's a strain I won't purchase from his company. I don't know how the variation would be with f3's also so I possibly wouldn't have the benefit of making f2's. I would only buy TH and Serious Bubblegum.
The only similar strain between Simon and Tony(Sagmartha) is the Kali Mist/Western Winds. The slyder and AK aren't related both Simon and Tony have said this.
Pink bubblegum probably wouldn't be too much of a change as it's already lost it's vigor (Bubblegum is a slow starter) The AK-47 however would lose a lot of vigor to isolate that phenotype I'm not a genetics expert and it would also depend on how the breeder went about it. Example:
Genetic variation / Heterozygous is lost with every step towards isolation.
p1 = 100
f1 = 50
f2 = 25
f3 = 12.5
f4 = 6.25
f5 = 3
f6 = 1%
f7 = truely under 1% genetic variation (f5 and f6 were rounded down)
You lose vigor each generation as you're narrowing the gene pool (isolating traits) If you look at some heavily refined clones like Purple Urkle they veg slow as fuck because of this (Bubblegum displays this to some extent also)
I believe with lots of work the Pink bubblegum pheno could be rather common if you say had a F1 pink bubblegum and a F6 or F7 pink bubblegum and crossed them you would have the pheno coming up a lot and maintain vigor. To progeny test a male to display these traits could be a pain in the ass though.
I'm sure working on the same strain would become rather stale especially when you have new projects on the table.
Remember I'm just trying to provide information I could be incorrect about stuff but I believe that's how it works.
Nirvana's could very well provide more pink bubblegum but that's a strain I won't purchase from his company. I don't know how the variation would be with f3's also so I possibly wouldn't have the benefit of making f2's. I would only buy TH and Serious Bubblegum.
Hey captain nice comment, I didn't study genetics (just some breeding here on ICMAG) but as far as I understand what you say is correct.
About Bubblegum I didn't know before your post of the pink version, so I was only commenting the Cherry pheno.
Aside from KM/WW, I perceived as well Tony didn't sell copies of other SS strains. On the forums somebody alleged Slyder was AK, some said it was Chronic, some said they found cherry pheno in some of Tony's stock... as usual it is the confusion of the forums, where every "fact" can be total truth or total bullshit and it's difficult to say which is which. If Tony said that, I'd believe him though, as he doesn't have any incentive to say he doesn't have and sell a version of AK47, which is a top notch plant.
Probably the thing to make to stabilize the cherry pheno without losing vigor is to sometimes cross it with a plant showing mostly recessive traits: in that way you can first get a 100% IBL cherry pheno which is slow to veg, and then get a 50% plus following generation which instead keeps the vigor.
Now here it probably comes clear I'm not very deep into breeding and genetics, but I believe this is why, when people like Soma and others get a batch of good seeded weed or a clone without having access to the parents, they usually cross it with an afghan or NL: first reason to bulk the weight, second because they have probably found some plants which can pollinate the females without impressing too deeply the mother's geno/phenotype.
Hope some breeder chimes in and confirm or deny such theories.
And it's good to know Simon is about to release new strains, it was about time! Hope they are some clear, happy sativa-leaning plants
About Bubblegum I didn't know before your post of the pink version, so I was only commenting the Cherry pheno.
Aside from KM/WW, I perceived as well Tony didn't sell copies of other SS strains. On the forums somebody alleged Slyder was AK, some said it was Chronic, some said they found cherry pheno in some of Tony's stock... as usual it is the confusion of the forums, where every "fact" can be total truth or total bullshit and it's difficult to say which is which. If Tony said that, I'd believe him though, as he doesn't have any incentive to say he doesn't have and sell a version of AK47, which is a top notch plant.
Probably the thing to make to stabilize the cherry pheno without losing vigor is to sometimes cross it with a plant showing mostly recessive traits: in that way you can first get a 100% IBL cherry pheno which is slow to veg, and then get a 50% plus following generation which instead keeps the vigor.
Now here it probably comes clear I'm not very deep into breeding and genetics, but I believe this is why, when people like Soma and others get a batch of good seeded weed or a clone without having access to the parents, they usually cross it with an afghan or NL: first reason to bulk the weight, second because they have probably found some plants which can pollinate the females without impressing too deeply the mother's geno/phenotype.
Hope some breeder chimes in and confirm or deny such theories.
And it's good to know Simon is about to release new strains, it was about time! Hope they are some clear, happy sativa-leaning plants
captain.koons
Member
Probably the thing to make to stabilize the cherry pheno without losing vigor is to sometimes cross it with a plant showing mostly recessive traits: in that way you can first get a 100% IBL cherry pheno which is slow to veg, and then get a 50% plus following generation which instead keeps the vigor.
I don't know if that would work... using a true breeding pink bubblegum (later generation) and a more stable bubblegum which still displays that trait (earlier generation) would be the way to go I believe.
Now here it probably comes clear I'm not very deep into breeding and genetics, but I believe this is why, when people like Soma and others get a batch of good seeded weed or a clone without having access to the parents, they usually cross it with an afghan or NL: first reason to bulk the weight, second because they have probably found some plants which can pollinate the females without impressing too deeply the mother's geno/phenotype.
I think it's more like they don't want the genetics to go to waste and they want another seed variety in their arsenal. Most breeders do this with a lot of strains... Soma with Afghan Hawaiian, TH with Afghani (in a few crosses at least), DNA with g13 haze, Spice of life with blueberry... sometimes it's to improve the weed but usually it's just something dank you can throw with almost anything and sell.
I don't know if that would work... using a true breeding pink bubblegum (later generation) and a more stable bubblegum which still displays that trait (earlier generation) would be the way to go I believe.
Now here it probably comes clear I'm not very deep into breeding and genetics, but I believe this is why, when people like Soma and others get a batch of good seeded weed or a clone without having access to the parents, they usually cross it with an afghan or NL: first reason to bulk the weight, second because they have probably found some plants which can pollinate the females without impressing too deeply the mother's geno/phenotype.
I think it's more like they don't want the genetics to go to waste and they want another seed variety in their arsenal. Most breeders do this with a lot of strains... Soma with Afghan Hawaiian, TH with Afghani (in a few crosses at least), DNA with g13 haze, Spice of life with blueberry... sometimes it's to improve the weed but usually it's just something dank you can throw with almost anything and sell.
captain.koons
Member
That would be interesting, especially if it was a f1 hybrid... retain some of AK's vigor if both the cherry and pink bubblegum were expressed that would be something... So... 20ish packs of seeds at 70 euro each = 2800euros.
Finding a pink bubblegum male would be hard as hell too... Lol. Unless you did fem but you wouldn't have many phenos to pick from so it could be prone to hermie...
YOUR PLAN IS IMPOSSIBLE
Finding a pink bubblegum male would be hard as hell too... Lol. Unless you did fem but you wouldn't have many phenos to pick from so it could be prone to hermie...
YOUR PLAN IS IMPOSSIBLE
captain.koons
Member
I could dig up the emails later, I'm just lazy atm.
One is a heavy indica other is near pure sativa I believe. One is supposed to be a mostly outdoor strain and one is supposed to be a very tasty strain.
He didn't give me many details.
One is a heavy indica other is near pure sativa I believe. One is supposed to be a mostly outdoor strain and one is supposed to be a very tasty strain.
He didn't give me many details.
The indica dom plant will be the indoor tasty one. It will be fruity. I do know that! Info 1st hand from Serious!
