Philips 315w CDM Elite (CMH)

[iBogart]

Hello ! Sunlight Supply replied to my email regarding their Sun System® LEC® 315 :

"Our LEC fixtures do not require or accept glass. The units are built with a socket that will only accept a double shielded protected lamp (the lamp itself has an extra glass jacket that acts as the glass lenses). This lamp is rated to be used in an open fixture and still meet all safety requirements.
Thanks for your inquiry"

Their fixture looks vertically tall in photos but stats show it to only have 9.6" in height.
Expensive ready-to-go system but dropping in price
http://growgreenmi.com/sun-system-lec315-120-volt-w-lamp for $435.73.

It all comes down to more bang for the buck. Take Gavita Pro 600/750 DE combo. Can be driven to 750w or dimmed down to 400w. Electronic ballast mounted to the socket - no rf interfence. Supposed get par values as a 1000w HPS but running at 600w.
growershouse sale right now at $422.

Which would be better? The 315 or gavita pro 600/750 DE?

 

[Ericos]

my coworker has run the gavita 750 and he got the same production as the standard 1000w hortilux setup so saved 25% electricity for the same production rates.

Now in comparison to a single 315 vs 750DE I would say the 750DE would outperform a single 315 because of the increased umol and light output.

The real test would be to run a 630 setup to compare to a 750DE to see if you can get the same production and quality but with 120-150w savings. Plus I believe the two 315s would probably run cooler than the 750DE and you'd have better light distribution as well

 

[Stond_Face]

I'm very lost on safety issues on CMH. Can you see the Sun System LEC sets having safety issues? Are the fixtures causing issues? In adequate cooling? Safeguards against failure? CFLs, LEDs, and the sun have been my only sources of light so far.

I've had one of the Sun System LEC fixtures going for a couple months now. It is a very nice light. Made in USA. Low heat output. I don't suspect any safety issues so far...

I have this lamp over a table next to a 400W HPS, and the LEC blows the 400 away.

Also, it's next to a table with a 600W HPS... I think that is a close fight.

 

[Ready4]

It all comes down to more bang for the buck. Take Gavita Pro 600/750 DE combo. Can be driven to 750w or dimmed down to 400w. Electronic ballast mounted to the socket - no rf interfence. Supposed get par values as a 1000w HPS but running at 600w.
growershouse sale right now at $422.

Which would be better? The 315 or gavita pro 600/750 DE?

I can see your point. That light could possibly produce more if those par values are accurate and not hype.
However, the 315 draws about 346 watts and seems like some results indicate it is close or better than a 600 watt HPS. So for myself, at this point, the idea of saving at least 300 watts per hour is significant. The 315 runs on low frequency which I believe eliminates concerns about RF interference.

 

[spleebale]

I just got a PGZ18 socket to retrofit an existing reflector I have, and both wires on it are white! I think it's a Welthink socket, but not sure. I don't know which of them to wire up to white and which to black! Help rives!
I can tell which wire on the socket goes to each of the holes, and one hole is larger than the other (the smaller hole clearly accepts the post on the lamp that has the semi-circular shape). Which one should be black and which white?

Also - as a note to others looking to retrofit existing fixtures - the PGZ18 sockets I received are smaller than traditional sockets. I thought I would just unscrew the screws in my original mogul socket, detach the wires, attach them to the new PGZ18 socket wires and screw it into place, bada-boom. Turns out: the wiring is confusing (both white) AND the socket doesn't FIT, so I can't screw in both screws to hold it securely in place. Turns out, though, that if I tighten just one of the screws down tightly (with the little star-washer on it), the socket is held quite firmly in place; I will probably wrap some electrical tape around it just to make sure. Problem pretty much fixed - I just didn't expect to be janky-fixturing. :-/

 

[rives]

You will need to identify the wires from the ballast to the socket. There are red and blue wires coming out of the ballast, and the red wire wants to feed the lamp socket hole that is smaller and has the flat section about 1/4" long on it. You can use either the black or the white wire to jump from the ballast to the socket, but make sure that whichever wire you attach to the red ballast wire winds up feeding the smaller, semi-circular hole.

The screw centers on the sockets are slightly different than the mogul version, but not by a great deal - I think it's only a couple of millimeters, but the information is in the post up front about sockets. You had probably spin the socket 90 degrees and drill new holes, or slot them with a file. One screw may hold the socket in place, but it is going to try and rotate when you twist the lamp into place and may cut the wires if they are fed through the metal bracket. Electrical tape won't hold, the socket gets too hot.

 

[spleebale]

I am actually using a plug-and-play Welthink ballast and it has a sun-system type plug that I am plugging my reflector into. The reflector has a black wire and a white wire and the green ground. Which color wire should I connect to the smaller hole with the flat section?

That sucks about the socket not fitting. I don't understand what you mean about slotting with a file. The piece I am trying to attach the socket to is a ceramic base with pre-installed holes to screw into, so I don't think I can screw new holes in that :-/

 

[rives]

The Welthink ballast should have a schematic on it that shows which wire is the hot - it may say 4kv on it, and is very likely the black one. That is the wire that will want to go to the smaller hole with the flat section. I haven't used a Welthink, but they should have some documentation attached or included with the ballast.

No, if you are trying to attach to a ceramic sub-base, you aren't going to be able to modify it. I was talking about modifying a metal bracket, and the holes can be easily slotted to an oblong shape that will accept either mounting center configuration.

 

[spleebale]

Just tried it out; bulb fires up and gets VERY bright and then after a few minutes shuts off. I have two Welthink ballasts and the same issue is happening with both. I tried the black wire to the smaller hole first and then reversed it. In each configuration the bulb fired, got bright and then shut off. Suggestions?

 

[Jhhnn]

Just tried it out; bulb fires up and gets VERY bright and then after a few minutes shuts off. I have two Welthink ballasts and the same issue is happening with both. I tried the black wire to the smaller hole first and then reversed it. In each configuration the bulb fired, got bright and then shut off. Suggestions?

I'd figure that you probably have two bad ballasts or one bad lamp, the latter being much more likely. Defective & old lamps will cycle like that.

 

[rives]

I don't know if the Welthink ballasts have the 210/315w selector, but if so, you might check to make sure that you have it set correctly for the lamp that you have.

 

[lazi]

I've found a double d-papillon (2 x 315w) in the UK @ £595.

Would this be ok to cover a 4 x 4 space?

 

[iBogart]

I can see your point. That light could possibly produce more if those par values are accurate and not hype.
However, the 315 draws about 346 watts and seems like some results indicate it is close or better than a 600 watt HPS. So for myself, at this point, the idea of saving at least 300 watts per hour is significant. The 315 runs on low frequency which I believe eliminates concerns about RF interference.

I think a pretty good match up would be running the gavita pro 600 DE at 400w and compare it to the 315. Cost wise, they're a match, but i think you would get way more flexibility and par power from the gavita. I mean, If I'm gonna shell out $450 for a light set up, the choice is obvious.

 

[Ready4]

I think a pretty good match up would be running the gavita pro 600 DE at 400w and compare it to the 315. Cost wise, they're a match, but i think you would get way more flexibility and par power from the gavita. I mean, If I'm gonna shell out $450 for a light set up, the choice is obvious.

Yeah that sounds like it would fit your plan , probably the better of the two for you.
For myself... there are reports back from people using the 315 who state that their 315 is comparable or better than the 600 watt HPS they have been using. The idea of getting comparable to 600 watt results from a 315, for about 1/2 the actual watts used by a 600 HPS, appeals to me. I have a 400 HPS so I can compare to that. I just have my personal med grow, dont need a bigger production but thinking the 315 might work better for a growing a sativa than the 400 HPS.
But the Gavita is certainly an option than will be considered.

 

[rives]

I've found a double d-papillon (2 x 315w) in the UK @ £595.

Would this be ok to cover a 4 x 4 space?

As far as the lamps go, two of them will easily do a good job in that space. The overall coverage and consistency will be determined by the fixture, and I don't have any experience with them. People speak very favorably about the d-papillons, though.

I think a pretty good match up would be running the gavita pro 600 DE at 400w and compare it to the 315. Cost wise, they're a match, but i think you would get way more flexibility and par power from the gavita. I mean, If I'm gonna shell out $450 for a light set up, the choice is obvious.

If you want to run HPS, I think that Gavita is probably the top of the heap, but I don't think that the Gavita will win that battle at 400 watts. Personally, I don't like looking at my plants under HPS and think that they probably do better under natural-spectrum light. That said, HPS obviously works very well.

Good luck.

 

[liagro]

I've found a double d-papillon (2 x 315w) in the UK @ £595.

Would this be ok to cover a 4 x 4 space?

in bigger rooms we average 600 µmol/m2s in a 5 x 4 setup.
in a 4 x 4 setup with decent reflection from the side walls you should be able to get 750 µmol/m2s which is more than sufficient

 

[Ericos]

Figure I post some multi 315 girls to show how they love this light! Caveman og hybrid at 10wks and 6wks to show how much they change in that time frame. Although I do use a 8 lamp multi kelvin run in a 5 x 12 area.

 

[liagro]

below a picture of doulbe D's in a 8 x 5 footprint averaging 320 µmol/m2s at 100%.
The double D's also have to option to boost the lamps slightly

 

[spleebale]

Update: it does appear to have been one of the ballasts that was faulty, as I have the other one working fine now with no stuttering or blackouts. I think originally perhaps I plugged the second ballast in too early after shutting off the first one, so the bulb did not start, perpetuating my confusion about the problem! Blame it on the haste.

And DAMN is this 315W bulb BRIGHT! For some reason I was not expecting it to be brighter than my 400W CMHs (that I swooped from ATL just before they were all gone). It may be that the 400s have been run for 5 or 6 mo now, so perhaps they are about comparable, but WOW, I wasn't expecting that. I am quite fond of this bulb (rocking the 942 right now but soon to check out the 930 as well), and I am happy to see that all the fuss was for good reason! It's funny how sometimes the cutting edge tech eludes the mainstream for a while...

Anyway: very happy with my one 400W CMH to 315W CMH "upgrade" so far (except for my one ballast failure) and I am REALLY looking forward to my LEC 315 coming (probably tomorrow!) which seems awesome because of the design of the reflector and vertical orientation of the bulb.

Has anyone looked into/discussed the quality of Cycloptics systems vs the LEC 315? I have been tipped by the all-in-one design of the LEC and the lower price, but am curious if perhaps the Cycloptics is superior in its reflector design or the ballast they offer?

 

[rives]

I think that the Cycloptics, when used in the environment that they specify, is probably about the most efficient reflector available for lighting consistency. The LEC appears to be a damn nice fixture, though.