Patent No: US 8,092,752

[RustyShcklfrd]

Just caught up with this weeks church. Hope it settled some concerns about the weeks before, Id really like to be able to discuss the show in depth, there is already a Hash Church thread, but it seems like its been dead for months, its just called Hash Church is you search, Im going to post over there, see if we can get it going again.

 

[Gray Wolf]

I didn't take that from the episode at all from the parts of it I saw, I thought Indra came across as well practiced, knowledgeable and intelligent.

Say what you will, if you read the patent there are some embodiments of the invention that are quite intelligent and show out of the box thinking that is rare in this industry. The tuning fork triggered-'solenoid' valve is a bit of brilliance, imho. That is the type of thinking from an individual that understands varied scientific concepts inside and out, and can synthesize different pieces of unrelated information to come up with elegant, non-obvious solutions to common problems.

As far as cost goes, anyone that has been involved in filing patents with expensive (ie - the best) patent lawyers knows that fees can easily can run up to and above a million bucks, that is definitely not out of the realm of possibility. That he has licensed the technology to major corn-oil processors says a lot about the validity of the patent. I don't know how many patents you guys have been involved with through the USPTO, but Dr Scialdone seemed quite impressed with the encompassing wording of the principle claims, and he has filed multiple patents via the USPTO.

And as far as the nitrogen flooded room goes, again to me that shows out of the box thinking that most in the industry are not capable of. To me at least, he came off as intelligent and well studied. I'm amazed that anyone would think he is an "uninformed, uneducated conspiracy theorist"; certainly an out of the box thinker and not your average joe, but 'nutter'? I don't think so...

I missed Hash Church, but the person rambling on SPR using Indra, was not articulate and well spoken.

Any possibility someone else is having fun with his name?

 

[HG23]

Ricky's bong,

Did you by chance have your patent lawyer look at this?

This guy Indra was on hash church today saying people were coming out of the woodwork to pay him to license his patent.

He made a post on erowid in 1999 under the name indra about extracting using PVC tubes and butane. He talks about it like he knew he had this big bombshell of a gift he was giving to everyone at the time and sort of promotes himself as the father of hydrocarbon extraction.

Honestly, my gut is telling me he is vastly inflating his claims that all BHO extractor designs are violating his patent, but I don't know anything about the laws.

 

[SkyHighLer]

^ HC #109, Indra/John Henry Davis, "fuck all of you assholes," a real scholar and gentleman... comes off as pure prick to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDU8o_BC4YM&feature=youtu.be&t=13m45s

The History of BHO thread,

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=333838

Has INDRA/John Henry Davis stated he's ever used any other forum user name?

What is his "google+ site?"

 

[EsterEssence]

I am not into bho, but to be fair to Indra you have to put his comment in the right context. He released his bho idea for free and has not really asked for anything, until now. He has talked on HC about a method to make a pure dry sift. He has not released his tech, and people are giving him a hard about it and want him to release it for free. So that comment was to the people giving him shit...

 

[Rickys bong]

This guy Indra was on hash church today saying people were coming out of the woodwork to pay him to license his patent.

...

Honestly, my gut is telling me he is vastly inflating his claims that all BHO extractor designs are violating his patent, but I don't know anything about the laws.

I suspect that's bullshit. I have to agree with Greywolf, this is probably someone else other than Indra.

For starters, if there were people crawling out of the woodwork to pay him one would think he would mention that he currently doesn't have the rights to it.

I went to the USPTO PAIR site that gives info on current patent status, whether fees have been paid and who the patent is assigned to.
In 2012 Mr. Davis assigned his interest to a company called Tristar Productions AG. in Burglen Switzerland.

They are the current legal owner of the IP assigned to this patent. Funny he doesn't mention this.

IF he had a valid argument he or Tristar would be actively suing all of the supposed infringing companies. Failing to pursue infringing parties (especialy while whining about it on the internet) can cause serious legal issues.

https://hanseniplaw.com/pitfalls-in-policing-your-patent-rights/

If you carefully listen to him you can tell its bullshit. In one sentence he's bashing the current industry standard saying everyone is doing it wrong (flowing butane through a column for example) then on the other hand he's saying his patent is being violated.

Anything he publicly disclosed prior to the application date is public domain anyway. If he's saying he disclosed this info before this patent was applied for it's more ammo to invalidate said patent.

No patent holder with two active brain cells would go on some youtube show and whine about his patent being infringed if there wasn't legal proceedings already in place against the infringers.


It's either just theater or some moron posing as mr. Davis or both.

Just ignore it, it will go away.

RB

 

[Chimera]

With all due respect RB, I don't`think you understand the patent. Claim 1 seems broad enough to cover all extractors I've seen on the market.

Secondly, there are active legal proceedings going on with various players in the industry; there are stages of communication between parties before the court system becomes involved.

I've spoken with John offline and he passes my bullshit detector on the topics we discussed, granted I am not an extraction professional but I think I have a pretty good grasp on general scientific concepts, and I have been involved in filing a patent or two myself, so I do understand the process.

I think John is authentic and have to point out for the record that most if not all of the people you see claiming he is bullshit or a fraud, are themselves involved in the extraction game.

As far as the assignment, it's not uncommon for an inventor to assign a patent to a third entity. As much as the Patent itself, this type of IP battle is about the size of the war chest of those who want to challenge or defend the patent, one can spend years in court trying to uphold the patent claims, and that gets expensive. i've seen inventors take on partners just to have the capital to defend the patent in court.

 

[Old Gold]

Here is his earliest mention in patent form
https://www.google.com/patents/US7002029

 

[SkyHighLer]

Maybe we should have been kinder to David McGhee.....

"DEVELOPMENT
After years of research using a Refrigerant Recovery Machine to recover solvents which ended in a catastrophic failure in 2005 I began development of a SAFE pump free solution that led to a patentable process. The research design and development continued for 5 more years until the Tamisium Closed Passive Extractor, Extractors, Botanical Extractor, Herbal Extractor process was refined enough to be safely sold to the public."

Indra's patent which is under discussion in this thread is about a patent published in '12, filed in '09.

https://www.google.com/patents/US8092752

 

[SkyHighLer]

Here is his earliest mention in patent form
https://www.google.com/patents/US7002029

I see this one is lapsed.


Who's negotiating with him?

 

[Pangea]

I dont think anyone is calling him a fraud or not extremely knowledgeable in extraction, I think the criticism is primarily in the patent right claims. Was there was a closed loop design public before his patent? He obviously has the first to file part down, was it public domain pre his closed loop filing via online dissemination?

I asked Indra if he went by the name of freejon on erowid to which his said he did.

He also said Grey Wolf had the worst and unsafest system and design, paraphrasing but as close to the quote as I can remember. I invited him here for proper discourse vs a streaming chat, hoping he does seeing as hes no stranger to forums based on is erowid past from near 20 years ago!

 

[Gray Wolf]

I dont think anyone is calling him a fraud or not extremely knowledgeable in extraction, I think the criticism is primarily in the patent right claims. Was there was a closed loop design public before his patent? He obviously has the first to file part down, was it public domain pre his closed loop filing via online dissemination?

I asked Indra if he went by the name of freejon on erowid to which his said he did.

He also said Grey Wolf had the worst and unsafest system and design, paraphrasing but as close to the quote as I can remember. I invited him here for proper discourse vs a streaming chat, hoping he does seeing as hes no stranger to forums based on is erowid past from near 20 years ago!

Sounds like what was coming out of the person calling themselves Indra on SPR. Charges with no detail or substance, against a system design that has been certified by three different professional engineering groups.

 

[SkyHighLer]

I dont think anyone is calling him a fraud or not extremely knowledgeable in extraction, I think the criticism is primarily in the patent right claims. Was there was a closed loop design public before his patent? He obviously has the first to file part down, was it public domain pre his closed loop filing via online dissemination?

I asked Indra if he went by the name of freejon on erowid to which his said he did.

He also said Grey Wolf had the worst and unsafest system and design, paraphrasing but as close to the quote as I can remember. I invited him here for proper discourse vs a streaming chat, hoping he does seeing as hes no stranger to forums based on is erowid past from near 20 years ago!

^ "I asked Indra if he went by the name of freejon on erowid to which his said he did."


Assuming Indra/John Henry Davis is freejon, check out G.O. Joe's links again.

"In the interest of truth and understanding, here's G.O. Joe's entire ICMAG Private Message I found in my inbox this morning:

"Private Message: Re: patent thread + history of BHO, BTW
10-17-2016, 07:23 PM
G.O. Joe
Member

G.O. Joe's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Ditchweed City
Posts: 840

patent thread + history of BHO, BTW

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHighLer View Post
Could you post a link? I don't know what terms to search for


https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=330631

FYI BHO goes back before erowid, and before Indra. Obviously, pouring butane through a tube in 98 does not a patent make. There's all this giving away talk anyways. However, he fully deserves credit for PVC tube BHO. And I guess all the explosions.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7429926&postcount=16

This is posted then he appears out of nowhere. I never read his erowid post or heard of Indra until Todd mentioned it right before he joined the HC panel after.

freejon brought it up again later,
https://the-hive.archive.erowid.org/forum/showflat.pl?Cat=&Number=100222

then gyro - I had read all his posts too, but my post was only about putting a date on the first post and punning.

https://the-hive.archive.erowid.org/forum/showflat.pl?Cat=&Number=90292
https://the-hive.archive.erowid.org/forum/showflat.pl?Cat=&Number=567313
https://the-hive.archive.erowid.org/forum/showflat.pl?Cat=&Number=573826
https://the-hive.archive.erowid.org/forum/showflat.pl?Cat=&Number=561893

gyro talks much about doing more interesting and serious chemistry than Indra's let on about on HC. It must have a fun and quite profitable time for him and his crew of at least freejon in (?)Switzerland.
__________________

My deepest apologies for the indiscretion G.O. Joe, your words speak volumes as to your character, I hope everyone appreciates the bluntness necessary when enough is enough."

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7670786&postcount=7




I find it odd that someone who believed CO2 was suitable for open extraction could come up with John Henry Davis's patents.

"It is the BEAST extraction method in the world. you canuse carbon dioxide gas as well." freejon

https://the-hive.archive.erowid.org/forum/showflat.pl?Cat=&Number=100222

 

[G.O. Joe]

TOS/?freejon may have been a disguise because of business he solicited openly there, but his posts as a whole left me the impression that he truly was not a native English speaker. gyro doesn't seem a big bullshitter so I'm inclined to believe him and if half of what he said at that site was true it's hard not to like him. It's also possible the current Indra is none of them, but was within the group.

foaf's honey pot goes back before here at least summer 05. Could there be several posts in this forum and others that could potentially undermine enforcement of certain parts of certain patents?

 

[weedaholic721]

The history concerning these methods is very interesting, but it seems imperative to have his claims and patents checked by a lawyer.

It's appears true that the patent existance allows him to tie up alot of companies in court if he has the will and the resources. Atleast from my understanding of patent law, which is very limited.

The main issue I see, is it enforceability in relation to cannabis as it remains a Schedule 1 substance.

 

[Digital Man]

The history concerning these methods is very interesting, but it seems imperative to have his claims and patents checked by a lawyer.

It's appears true that the patent existance allows him to tie up alot of companies in court if he has the will and the resources. Atleast from my understanding of patent law, which is very limited.

The main issue I see, is it enforceability in relation to cannabis as it remains a Schedule 1 substance.[/QUOTE]

I think you might be confusing Trademarks for Patents.

 

[Gray Wolf]

The patent dance.......... The Fortune 500 aerospace company that I worked for, stopped revealing their discoveries to the world through the patent process, but instead published our findings in some obscure journal, that we could dig out and point to when someone did try to patent it, or indeed did successfully patent it and tried to enforce it. We also kept a murder of high priced attorneys on retainer........

At another company, we patented my invention so that we could claim the patent for marketing purposes, but never enforced it when many of our competitors copied the simple clever solution to 300# forced entry requirements.

Indra on the SPR site was threatening a lawsuit for us publishing the information, which of course is not what patent protects you from.

The First Amendment trumps patents.

That person was rambling, abusive, and without substance, which is why I question who it was. As ya'll are no doubt painfully aware, the morons that keep getting rejected from sites for simply being themselves, frequently continue to return and seek respect, love and acceptance under different IP addresses.

Sometimes using multiple avatars to feign forum support and gang up. Ya'll older term denizens of this forum know of what and of who we speak, even though their names may forever remain "un-uttered" on the wall of shame.

I also note that sometimes even intelligent folks are less so when chemically impaired, sooooo I guess vee vill zee as the thread of intrigue unfolds.

 

[weedaholic721]

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...spears-denied-fees-after-winning-patent-case/

I know the people and technology involved might seem irrelevant to extraction and patents,. However, I think this article shows us who haven't dealt with patents, how an apparently frivolous case can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. His patent was even reevaluated and rejected by thr patent office.

 

[Gray Wolf]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Documentaries/comments/4v1b21/the_patent_scam_intro_2016_20_min_small/

Just watched this yesterday and this post made me think of it.

Bump

Then there is the game........

 

[SkyHighLer]

Hash Church CIX 109 Comments section,

"JohnSchuyler1
1 day ago

Indra/John Davis, have you used another forum/blog username? I started a "History of BHO" thread at ICMAG Concentrate Forums, foaf was there, where were you?
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=333838"



(reply)
"Bubble man's World
12 hours ago

all of those user names i.e. handles are Indra "


(reply)
"Indra
10 hours ago

at the time I was freejon,gyrogearloose, Indra, different names on different boards.and other names, trying to avoid being known or seen as in those times it was scary dangerous."

HC #109
https://youtu.be/EDU8o_BC4YM