passive plant killer

[bad gas]

D9: congratulations on that fantastic yield. if i remember correctly, during the course of this thread, you have changed from 7 wk veg to five and the yields are increased. awesome! i know there's more than that involved. thanks for letting us see your "dialing in" process. small incremental improvements over time.
i'll be building my prototype ppk and coffin this weekend. i haven't been this excited about anything for a long time. i'm actually having fun. have a good weekend.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

but who's counting

I tried.

Really, I tried.

 

[jjfoo]

stats

stats

delta,

I just made a 35 gallon batch of nutes. I mixed by weight, then checked EC.

The EC ratio was 67 percent (like you said). I am now doubting my earlier claims and thinking a small mistake could be magnified making small amounts like 1 gallon. For my sake, I plan to do this again. I predict it will be close to 67 percent, then I'll write off my other ideas as errors.

I've also learned how important it is to presoak or load up the coco ahead of time. I wasn't doing this before and it lead to plants that where starting off at an EC that was too low and by the time the EC got up they where starting to show deficiencies.

I underestimated the importance of preparing the coco. I'm just a slow learning and sometimes hinder my learning by wanting to understand all details which leads me off on tangents that are sometimes helpful but often not beneficial to the immediate focus.

 

[delta9nxs]

delta,

I just made a 35 gallon batch of nutes. I mixed by weight, then checked EC.

The EC ratio was 67 percent (like you said). I am now doubting my earlier claims and thinking a small mistake could be magnified making small amounts like 1 gallon. For my sake, I plan to do this again. I predict it will be close to 67 percent, then I'll write off my other ideas as errors.

I've also learned how important it is to presoak or load up the coco ahead of time. I wasn't doing this before and it lead to plants that where starting off at an EC that was too low and by the time the EC got up they where starting to show deficiencies.

I underestimated the importance of preparing the coco. I'm just a slow learning and sometimes hinder my learning by wanting to understand all details which leads me off on tangents that are sometimes helpful but often not beneficial to the immediate focus.

hi, JJ! great! i was at a loss trying to understand why we were getting different results, i'm glad we worked it out.

i was pouring my working strength solution of ec 1.2 through the container. not really soaking (allowing it to sit for a while) but just a quick pour through.

it was an adequate treatment but i would still get a few spots on the lower leaves initially on some plants. just the first week as the cation exchange process occurred.

i have since been using a much stronger solution. i take 4 gals of water and mix in about a tablespoon of each substance. then just pour it through one time. going into a medium that is already wet from rinsing it gets diluted somewhat but i'm not getting any spotting anymore. i don't have any slowdowns from transplant shock. just rapid growth. no over ferting symptoms.

well, i'm glad we resolved the nutrient issue.

later

 

[delta9nxs]

hash pics

1. ez-strainers, 75 micron 5 and 55 gal sizes (google)

2. fits brute trash can or five gal bucket

3. very dry, aged, frozen trim

4. reduced to approx 1/2 volume using 50 pulses on lowest speed setting, taking it off base and rapping it sharply on the counter and shaking every 10 pulses.

5. this load after blender. 1040 grams.

6. cheap wally's drop cloth for cover as you will be shaking it violently. shake it violently, with the strainer inside the rim, for about 30-45 minutes or until you don't see much new material falling. i leave one end of the strainer all the way down into the drum and, using both hands, set up a shaking motion that makes the trim kind of travel around on top of the screen. i don't shake the drum, although you could. this 30-45 minutes of shaking does not include pauses or rest periods. actual shake time.

7. spent material. i have looked at this under the 10x loupe and there are almost no intact trichomes left on the plant.

8. results of dry sieve. this is good smoke like it is but you can taste the plant waxes and fibers just like smoking bud. if you only wanted to dry sieve it i wouldn't use the blender. i would push it through a fine metal screen instead. you get less material but it is cleaner at this point before washing.

9. wet with drum about 1/3 or 1/2 full.

10. the lumps you see are full of air and float rather like cocoa does in a cup. i use the paint mixer and the strainer to break it up so no trichs float.

 

[delta9nxs]

1. drum full of water with trichs settling to the bottom. i fill it right up to the rim and let it set for an hour.

2. the bubbles are formed by plant oils and waxes that float to the surface. the green material is plant fiber. most of which will float initially.

3. after letting the trichs settle for at least an hour begin running water in at very low volume so it doesn't disturb the trichs on the bottom.

4. just another view of the material you are getting rid of.

5. overflow the container until all the bubbles and fiber are gone.

6. skim it a little to get the water level down enough to get a pump in.

7. stir it up and let settle again. this puts a lot of the remaining plant fiber up into suspension.

8. 500 gph pond pump held very still just under the surface with the intake up.

9. pump it down until you can get it into a five gal bucket.

10. i like a clean white bucket for this as you can see better. now you can fill the bucket with water and let it settle about an hour then siphon from the top to remove water. this washing can be done as many times as you like removing a little more plant fiber each time.

 

[delta9nxs]

1. after the last wash in the bucket put it in something oven proof and remove as much water as possible.

2. more

3. into 200 degree oven for no more than about twenty minutes at a time. i usually put it in cold, let the oven come up to temperature and then turn it off, leaving the dish in for the cool down. i do this until most of the water is gone but it is still wet feeling.

4. air dry it for a few days than start chopping it up and turning it over, air drying in between.

5. the Makin's clay extruder, from hobby lobby and other places. mine was around 20 bucks.

6. taken apart showing the order of assembly. the extruder comes with an assortment of washers with different holes in them to make different shapes. the one with the smallest hole is the one you want. it needs to be backed with a dime to prevent it from bulging out.

7. here we see the bowl with the 116 grams i got out of the 1040. i sift it dry with a regular mesh kitchen strainer to even out any clumps before pressing.

8. 7.2 grams. 7 grams is about all you will be able to stuff into one of these and still get the top on. i like 7.2 gram pucks as 4 of them is slightly over an oz.

9. stuff it all in, put the washer and the dime on the end and screw the cap down. before you begin pressing it is a good idea to spray a little cooking spray on the threads. this thing is made of aluminum and can be broken easily. as you tighten it down you will feel increasing resistance. every so often back off a few turns and tighten again. for some reason this makes it easier. i run it down to about 1 1/4" threads showing, then preheat the oven to 200 degrees and put it in for 5 min. by timer. now turn it down until 1" of threads are showing. you will need oven gloves for this. allow it to cool to room temperature and put it in the freezer for 20 min.

10. start cranking it out.

 

[delta9nxs]

1. that's right, another crank shot.

2. typically, i need to pry it off the plunger with a razor blade.

3. 7.2 gram puck the diameter of a dime and 1" high. hard as a rock. you can't break this with your hands. i have to shave slivers off with a razor blade and considerable force.

4. ready for presentation.

in conclusion i can say that this is a great way to process larger quantities. it smokes very clean, almost like vapor. no wax or plant taste. it is not the purest way to make hash (bubble and oils) but it is nearly as good and much easier to handle. pressing brings out a unique character to the smoke. it seems to get better with age. it is better than the northern african and middle eastern hash that i have tried and my daughter says it is better than anything she got in the dam during a week stay.

d9

 

[Darth Fader]

Bravo! Best thread @ icmag!

Got a couple (offline) friends running the ppks now & they're stoked on it.

 

[jump /injack]

Just a great thread. I saw a condensation that someone made of this journey from 10oz to 22.43oz, any one remember the page number? You're the man Delta9!

 

[*mistress*]

hello delta9nxs..... good post.... in imagination, ran both automated & passive.... little difference between passive / powered.... roughly 16-32oz per feed-water... results similar to 24/7 feed w/ pump. good thread, delta9nxs.... cheers

 

[DevilWeed]

Way behind on this thread. I can throw .02 in on your experiment idea though mistress. I've run MANY MANY of my current strain in 5gal coco pots (non PPK). I started with coco handwatering. Then went to Blumats. Then PPK's. Same light footprint, same room, same plant. I could consistently get 8-10oz early on. As I switched to Blumats, the yields went up into the 12-15oz. My second real PPK plant (start to finish) yielded just shy of 20oz. Veg times have remained very close. It is a night and day difference! Now I've also improved my techniques during that time. Sooo...if you factor that in, maybe I'd be pulling 20oz from handwatered plants? Nope. They just grow so much bigger and do it faster in a PPK.

Bottom line for me is the two automated systems (Blumat & PPK) that keep the plants root zone in a consistent state (not wet/dry/wet/dry) produce bigger better plants faster.

 

[delta9nxs]

Hi, mistress!

A ppk smackdown? As much as I would like to indulge you on this, and I really would, it would create a tremendous amount of extra work for me just setting it up at a time when i'm behind on all kinds of work and struggling to catch up.

I have just re-plumbed my veg system and would have to knock a plant loose from all that plus build a separate sub-feed control bucket just for it that I could remove solution from to water the plant. We do want to maintain a closed circuit.

Also it would mess up my perpetual schedule which I am just getting back on after the surgery. A plant a week. Under the circumstances a deviation from this schedule could potentially cost me, shall we say, a lot of money.

And I don't really see any purpose to it that would further the developmental process of the ppk. In fact, I feel i'm on the verge of a breakthrough with the pulse system that could send yields upwards again.

Now, I water my plants once a week. I do not show any displays or symptoms of anything except a healthy, fast growing, plant. Visually perfect. I don't even check ph anymore. I have unbelievable stability. What people who have not built and operated one of these do not understand is that, set up properly, there is nothing to do except mix nutrients and watch the plants grow. Keep your plants out of the lights. Very little maintenance. Trouble free growing. Not just experienced growers but neophytes as well. I have done no maintenance to the pulse system since it's inception over a year ago.

Hand watering is a fine place to start with one of these if you cannot immediately afford or have the time to install a pulse system. Or maybe have lots of free time on your hands.

Even if you go for the full monty up front, the expense is moderate compared to some of the hydro systems people are playing with. Bio-buckets and undercurrent designs come to mind.

There are inherent problems with side by side experiments involving only two plants. They must be grown simultaneously. This does not fit my perpetual schedule.

No two plants root and grow the same. Even with my extremely stable cut and environment I will get a plant that weighs 14-15-16 oz's one week and a plant that could weigh as much as 22.43 the next.

It would have to be done with larger numbers to average out differences in the plants.

If you look in the botany and advanced growing forum they have set up a forum for side by sides. The forum was started 11-27-10 and today there are only 7 entries and only one is being done right. If it were easy to do a meaningful side by side that forum would be full of them by now.

Maybe someone else will do one. I'll be happy to watch.

d9

 

[bad gas]

hello D9, mistress, IF, et. al, just checking in to see if there are any new PPK improvements.
i built my prototype PPK and coffin last weekend. solved all the construction problems. sourced all the materials. i'm in production now. i hope to have all four coffins built this weekend. i'm doing the bucket assemblies in the evenings, a few at a time.
it will be a while before i can use them. i still need to buy media, ro water setup, nutes, another light. i promised my woman i wouldn't take any money out of savings to do this project, so i'm kinda like that guy in that johnny cash song where he built a cadillac "one piece at a time".
that's ok as i still am cleaning up after all the construction i've done. my room smells like sawdust. i have some painting to do.
got to work now. have a nice day. bg

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

i still need to buy media

Are you up to date on the target consistency of the media?

A couple of page back, D9 links to a gardenweb article on air content in media. It describes a reasonable test wherein calculated volumes of water are added to calculated volumes of media to assess media coarseness/air content.

D9 had a nice brand of coco that hit his numbers (targeted between 30-40% air) as he transitioned to the all coco run (Atami? (sp?)). Do to local sourcing, he had to transition to a different brand (Botanicare?). Out of the box, this media was too dense and had to be amended (with rice hulls and turface) to get his targeted porosity.

I do not believe that this should be overlooked on the front end of your PPK runs. Some people might have good luck gambling with media consistency, but doing the quick test and getting it deliberately dialed in within that range will bring odds of out-of-the-gate-success way up.

I, of course, use whatever is around. I came up short on overgrown rooted coco, and added some couscous and cardboard to get the volume up. Remember, though, I'm a master. Most growers wouldn't know how to adjust the feed schedule for a couscous based media.

The other thing that I know to be true--and don't do anything about--is that the environmental conditions are everything. Getting control of your temps and humidity and maintaining them will define your success. Not just keeping things out of the lethal zones, but actually controlling them as close as you can to some idea of ideal (that then can get dialed for maximum environmental benifit).

Accidentally, I've rearranged some things, and my base line temps are starting to fall within the closer-to-ideal range, and things are 30% faster. (That number is entirely fabricated and has no verifiable evidence.)

Address media consistency. Address temp and humidity control. Buy jacks. Plumb in a pulse.

Equals autopilot.

 

[delta9nxs]

hello D9, mistress, IF, et. al, just checking in to see if there are any new PPK improvements.
i built my prototype PPK and coffin last weekend. solved all the construction problems. sourced all the materials. i'm in production now. i hope to have all four coffins built this weekend. i'm doing the bucket assemblies in the evenings, a few at a time.
it will be a while before i can use them. i still need to buy media, ro water setup, nutes, another light. i promised my woman i wouldn't take any money out of savings to do this project, so i'm kinda like that guy in that johnny cash song where he built a cadillac "one piece at a time".
that's ok as i still am cleaning up after all the construction i've done. my room smells like sawdust. i have some painting to do.
got to work now. have a nice day. bg

hey, have you got any pics? it would help us understand your set up better.

 

[bad gas]

IF: i'll look up that gardrnweb article. i'll test home depot coco. if there are any problems, i'll buy the atami. whatever i buy, i'll pretreat it correctly. my environment will be automatically controlled. before i actually use the room, i'll run all systems for a week with simulated transpiration and evaporation humidity. i'm shamelessly copying the ppk methodology. i'm not going to deviate.
D9: no pics yet. i still have to learn how to post them. i'll have the computer man show me how with inocuous pictures first. by the time construction is complete, i should have something to show you. probably good for a laugh anyway. i spend a lot of time laying back in my chair visualizing how everything will look and work together. look for potential problems or interferences[that's spelled brain fart]. saves time when i'm actually working.
when this is complete, the room will have all the good things in one place. i read that up to 3, but not more, hours of soft music is liked by plants. i'll have this on a timer also. i don't think they would like my music--takes a strong stomach. this isn't the eagles.
have a nice day. bg

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

i'll test home depot coco. if there are any problems,

Just to make sure I'm not being too unclear: There are two factors that need to be considered with running coco: it's cleanliness/pretreatement, and it's actual consistency.

For the most part, no matter what's in a commercial coco, it can be flushed out. I imagine. Then, with relatively clean coco, you can soak it in a nute solution to 'pre-charge' it. Really, I think the 'pre-charging' has something to do with the chemistry of the whole deal, and cation bonding and shit. But instead of understanding all the details, you can just soak it in some nutes for a while. I use full strength. My tendency towards distractions guarantees that it soaks for at least a few hours.

The second thing is acknowledging the diversity of material grades and consistency available within 'horticultural coco coir'. As you find yourself buying different brands of brick, you will find different grades, washes, and fiber content. Shit, it even goes up to 'croutons' or small-bark-mulch sized chunks.

This is where the air-void testing comes into play. If it is a finely ground and sieved material like the Botanicare coco, it will not have as much air in it compared to some other brand/grade. When D9 started running Botanicare 'coffee-grind' coco, he amended the soil to increase it's overall porosity (i.e. increased the air-void percentage). He didn't need to chuck it all... he just had to chuck some stuff into it. While unpopular as it is inert, some mid-coarse perlite might be sufficient to get the air voids you're looking for.

More preferred might be turface, rice hulls, whatever the hell calcified DE is, crushed volcanic rock, dead coral, or three sprightly gerbils. Make sure you get the sprightly ones.

EDIT: Post 1768, "http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/l...545027416.html" (somewhere around page 117-119... I was careless and didn't link to this more recent discussion, which may in fact be the most important thing in the world if you are going to consider amending your coco with the S.G.x3. Loads of good info there.)

 

[bad gas]

IF: thanks for the link. i'll order some and test it. perelite is available locally. would the sprightly gerbils qualify this as organic? wouldn't want to miss out on possible benefits. i can get gerbils locally also.

 

[cyat]

couscous.... thats sik, the big one I bet!