S
passive plant killer
- Thread starter delta9nxs
- Start date
daggerinmyback
Member
I dunno i checked it with lights off a second ago and had 49% maybe its the temp drop from 76* lights on to 69* off... and its non drilled 3.5(non-smart pot) in 5 gallon buckets 1.5" gap ... could be evap from lights or temp evap... only time will tell
nope, the plants are really far apart and defoliated and have suffered massive mildew. They are really ugly. My first failure since I started about a year ago. Very humbling, but I am learning and will learn more about the problem and that is my main goal. The humidity is about 45 and the temp is 78. That would put the dew point lower than the room temp. The few remaining leaves are really small and really unhealthy. I am hoping to see new growth of some green leaves. They have about a month left.
I basically saw the mildew problem and ignored it for a few weeks hoping it would just go away. I have manually removed the mold from my vegging plants and they are no more signs of mold on those plants.
I actually sprayed my veg plants with H2O2. I did about 50 % water 50% H2O2 (3%).
I don't know if it helped because I did many other things that week (high pH spray, manual cleaning) but it didn't caues any visable damage.
I wonder what lysol would do.
Wrong before, wrong again.
Oh well...
Sure it's nothing nasty like PM and just your garden variety black mold?
it is white and powdery
It doesn't not look like black mold. I am ok with all my flowering plants not recovering and have a new round of healthy plants on deck. I plan to see how the plants finish then clean the room and start over.
Do you know the look of powdery mildew?
I had a line that was 'infected', but diligence with cleaning manual removal and attention to detail has kept that line 'free' for over a year now.
Apparently PM is systemic, and can be eliminated with Eagle20 (early in veg).
Krunchbubble has a thread on it...
I had a line that was 'infected', but diligence with cleaning manual removal and attention to detail has kept that line 'free' for over a year now.
Apparently PM is systemic, and can be eliminated with Eagle20 (early in veg).
Krunchbubble has a thread on it...
I guess i'm like an old timex. I take a lickin' and keep on tickin'! Feeling a little better every day.
Totally cleaned the veg system for the first time since setting it up. I would have to check the dates to be sure but it looks to be more than a year of a plant a week. I also cleaned the volume tanks, blew out all the lines and back flushed them with clean water.
In all this time in both the veg and flower systems I have had a few of the feed lines totally clog before I could rotate a plant through and 2 times the line from the volume tank to the flower room has clogged. It is the much longer line of the two.
In all cases the plants grew fine until I could correct the problem.
In all hydro systems there is routine maintenance that must be performed. Compared to most systems the ppk is not very difficult or time consuming to maintain.
I see some discussion about running larger feed lines. It won't hurt anything. I'm just a cheap old bastard.
There is some room to experiment with flow rates from one part of the system to the next. Remember the flow diagram and think about how fast each part reaches equilibrium after a pulse event. This has the potential to affect how re-blending occurs. Ratios and refresh rates. Manipulating these parameters could influence long term stability.
I believe I saw where someone suggested that moving the solution faster, with greater volume, through the lines or buckets might help by providing more o2.
This system does not rely on deriving o2 from water. Your water could be totally anaerobic for all intents and purposes.
Because this system does not derive much o2 from the water the temperature of the water is not hyper critical. No expensive chillers needed.
Ambient air is 21% o2. You cannot achieve this level in water even with a chiller. The only way to surpass this in water is with a device such as a “speece” cone or a “u-tube”. With these devices using direct injection of pure o2 you can achieve 25-28% saturation for an extremely short period of time as the o2 rapidly escapes.
I've never had mildew but I get a little bud rot sometimes. Usually when rh is over 60%. I keep 3 circulating fans on full blast during the dark phase. All the plants are moving slightly. During lights on these fans plus another large fan are running full time and the cooling fans for the lights are extracting 2500 cfm from the room. I have another 250 cfm fan scavenging off the top of the room. The room volume is 1200 cu ft. I also have a 8” insulated duct run off the house main duct for temp control. There is a lot of air movement.
Sorry about your plants, jj.
I'll be back with my “hiroshima” level of revelation about veg lighting soon. Really I just hope it works. Dagger, man, “hiroshima”? Have you seen the news in the last week? Nyuk! Nyuk! Nyuk! Notice any heavy surf around there?
Later on
d9
Totally cleaned the veg system for the first time since setting it up. I would have to check the dates to be sure but it looks to be more than a year of a plant a week. I also cleaned the volume tanks, blew out all the lines and back flushed them with clean water.
In all this time in both the veg and flower systems I have had a few of the feed lines totally clog before I could rotate a plant through and 2 times the line from the volume tank to the flower room has clogged. It is the much longer line of the two.
In all cases the plants grew fine until I could correct the problem.
In all hydro systems there is routine maintenance that must be performed. Compared to most systems the ppk is not very difficult or time consuming to maintain.
I see some discussion about running larger feed lines. It won't hurt anything. I'm just a cheap old bastard.
There is some room to experiment with flow rates from one part of the system to the next. Remember the flow diagram and think about how fast each part reaches equilibrium after a pulse event. This has the potential to affect how re-blending occurs. Ratios and refresh rates. Manipulating these parameters could influence long term stability.
I believe I saw where someone suggested that moving the solution faster, with greater volume, through the lines or buckets might help by providing more o2.
This system does not rely on deriving o2 from water. Your water could be totally anaerobic for all intents and purposes.
Because this system does not derive much o2 from the water the temperature of the water is not hyper critical. No expensive chillers needed.
Ambient air is 21% o2. You cannot achieve this level in water even with a chiller. The only way to surpass this in water is with a device such as a “speece” cone or a “u-tube”. With these devices using direct injection of pure o2 you can achieve 25-28% saturation for an extremely short period of time as the o2 rapidly escapes.
I've never had mildew but I get a little bud rot sometimes. Usually when rh is over 60%. I keep 3 circulating fans on full blast during the dark phase. All the plants are moving slightly. During lights on these fans plus another large fan are running full time and the cooling fans for the lights are extracting 2500 cfm from the room. I have another 250 cfm fan scavenging off the top of the room. The room volume is 1200 cu ft. I also have a 8” insulated duct run off the house main duct for temp control. There is a lot of air movement.
Sorry about your plants, jj.
I'll be back with my “hiroshima” level of revelation about veg lighting soon. Really I just hope it works. Dagger, man, “hiroshima”? Have you seen the news in the last week? Nyuk! Nyuk! Nyuk! Notice any heavy surf around there?
Later on
d9
Last edited:
daggerinmyback
Member
yeah and the news is sad... and I am glad to know youre doing better, hope you didnt lose too much plants, and time...
and switching between just to let the plant use UMOLs from the HID and CFL's to keep the photo period going so the HID can go off after 12 hours like 3 hours CFL at "on" time then the HID starts up and runs for 12 hours as the CFL shuts off then at the HID off point the CFL kicks back on for 3 more hours then all are "off" for 6 hours of darkness not a watt for watt just enough to keep photocells active and so far its had explosive results on the clones I had acquired ... a week and they have exploded in size, and I think my camera ran off with someone elses on a binge week... I expect it to show up wearing a frat T-shirt smelling of beer and vodka...
but on a small scale it works and on a larger scale I think it would be a viable idea to flip between a 1000w HID and 250 watts of CFL's
and switching between just to let the plant use UMOLs from the HID and CFL's to keep the photo period going so the HID can go off after 12 hours like 3 hours CFL at "on" time then the HID starts up and runs for 12 hours as the CFL shuts off then at the HID off point the CFL kicks back on for 3 more hours then all are "off" for 6 hours of darkness not a watt for watt just enough to keep photocells active and so far its had explosive results on the clones I had acquired ... a week and they have exploded in size, and I think my camera ran off with someone elses on a binge week... I expect it to show up wearing a frat T-shirt smelling of beer and vodka...
but on a small scale it works and on a larger scale I think it would be a viable idea to flip between a 1000w HID and 250 watts of CFL's
My goddamn camera is missing too...
What in the hell does all of that mean? Did I miss something between pages 82-86 or something?
dagger,
I don't want to seem like I am picking on you, so if I've bugged you too much, let me know.
A small hid like the security lights at Home depot would do the same thing and give less heat and use less power for the same output.
I assume you have one HID, if not you could turn all off except one.
I don't want to seem like I am picking on you, so if I've bugged you too much, let me know.
A small hid like the security lights at Home depot would do the same thing and give less heat and use less power for the same output.
I assume you have one HID, if not you could turn all off except one.
daggerinmyback
Member
LOL, no man, I was a Marine I dont think much could bother me, let alone its all knowledge and the sharing of, which will hopefully bring us to a higher plane of knowledge and output at the end result for less money--pick away
and I was mainly switching to the cfl as adding a plane of glass over the t5 ho or whatever, and fan it out with a cheap fan, heat is no issue for me all the HID's I use are Cool tube with their own fan attached and the room temp lights on has only hit 81* once due to a rat terrier blocking the "out" vent for heat lol, a small HID for a 4x4 room might not reach with enough light to just keep photo cells going on all points, but its worth a try.
Ive found the t5 twin bulb hangers for cheap if bought in bulk and can place them on each corner vertically (tent is 4'x4'x6'6") and put one cfl 105-120 watt centrally and reduce it down to maybe 200 watts on the edge and 100-ish in center and have it all covered with light-- how this would affect the CUBING of the plants I dont know yet, and that is a sought after thing...
and yes IF our cameras have ran away... hell, mine packed up its charger too leaving me no option but a divorce and buy a new one, but on base a nice one is only 89$ 12.2 mp with all the bells and whistles including 35x zoom and macro function, so its being ordered lol
and thats the exact page that made me lose so much sleep and get threatened by my wife ... lol but I'll wait to see what D9 has to say first before ordering 50 light sets for the 4 corners I have and hope his idea is better... or at least cheaper as I dont think my wife likes all the spending (but hey its not video games and growing this way Ive spent more time with her than anyone I know growing "active" hydro, theyre always busy checking ph and ppm etc... Im out with her
thanks D9 saved a marriage !)
also I ordered a 100' spool of drip feeder sprinkler line but it says "not for potable water" on label and feels like that n-g-w black/blue offgassing shit so I dunno what IF I would use it and risk it.. on the other side I did get 50' of black rubber latex off amazon 3/16 ID 1/16 Wall and 5/16 OD for 29.00 and free shipping discreet packaging if that matters lol
and I was mainly switching to the cfl as adding a plane of glass over the t5 ho or whatever, and fan it out with a cheap fan, heat is no issue for me all the HID's I use are Cool tube with their own fan attached and the room temp lights on has only hit 81* once due to a rat terrier blocking the "out" vent for heat lol, a small HID for a 4x4 room might not reach with enough light to just keep photo cells going on all points, but its worth a try.
Ive found the t5 twin bulb hangers for cheap if bought in bulk and can place them on each corner vertically (tent is 4'x4'x6'6") and put one cfl 105-120 watt centrally and reduce it down to maybe 200 watts on the edge and 100-ish in center and have it all covered with light-- how this would affect the CUBING of the plants I dont know yet, and that is a sought after thing...
and yes IF our cameras have ran away... hell, mine packed up its charger too leaving me no option but a divorce and buy a new one, but on base a nice one is only 89$ 12.2 mp with all the bells and whistles including 35x zoom and macro function, so its being ordered lol
and thats the exact page that made me lose so much sleep and get threatened by my wife ... lol but I'll wait to see what D9 has to say first before ordering 50 light sets for the 4 corners I have and hope his idea is better... or at least cheaper as I dont think my wife likes all the spending (but hey its not video games and growing this way Ive spent more time with her than anyone I know growing "active" hydro, theyre always busy checking ph and ppm etc... Im out with her
thanks D9 saved a marriage !)also I ordered a 100' spool of drip feeder sprinkler line but it says "not for potable water" on label and feels like that n-g-w black/blue offgassing shit so I dunno what IF I would use it and risk it.. on the other side I did get 50' of black rubber latex off amazon 3/16 ID 1/16 Wall and 5/16 OD for 29.00 and free shipping discreet packaging if that matters lol
should not be toxic. But neither should have the NGW shit either.
daggerinmyback
Member
yeah so I went and bought 40 feet of black vinyl drinking safe tubing ... at least it says it is... time will tell, other than that Im 99% set up on my new PPK build... waiting on the jacks to fully dissolve add cal nit and pour it all in the rez and watch them grow more than they already do
S
SCROG McDuck
and once set up and running, you'll spend even more time with wifey. I hope she is up to it! LOL!
My actions at the grow tent have subsided to 'maybe'
a 1/2 hour a day... I spend more time with clones and seedlings.
Much of the daily posts in the forums, no longer pertain
to me or the way I'm growing.
Ph, pfffft, I use a Ph meter once every couple weeks, by habit.
it doesnt change enough to worry about it.
PPMs, they change very little..
what a great way to grow it.... tks again D9.
Assuming that the research on the daily light integral is correct, the plant is a mole counter. At some point photosynthesis rolls off or slows down and light being applied is largely not being used by the plant.
This occurs in each diurnal cycle. It therefore follows that there exist a reset mechanism of some kind. The most likely trigger for this reset is light or the absence of light.
There could be chemical triggers instead of or as well as light. I have not been able to find anything on that thus far.
These chemical triggers could also stop or slow down the resetting mechanism by making the plant purge or process them before the reset occurs.
But light seems to be the main suspect.
As we know, very few greenhouses get more than 30 moles/day.
Icmag member spurr has remarked the he believes the plant cannot process more than about 48 moles/day. I have not been able to find this information in a research document so I don't know how he came to that conclusion.
The ole miss research was done at levels just below 30 moles/day.
What i'm going to try is to deliver approximately 30 moles in an eight hour period, give 4 hours of darkness, hopefully resetting the mole counter, then 30 moles in a second 8 hour period followed by 4 more hours of darkness.
If the diurnal clock can be reset by light or the absence of light this could be a way of radically accelerating the veg cycle.
If the plant builds up some kind of hormone during photosynthesis that must be processed or eliminated with a longer dark phase than 4 hours this idea will not work.
In conjunction with this I will shorten the vegetative cycle to 4 weeks. By only having 4 plants in veg I hope to be able to super manage them in regards to light.
I have also experimentally shaped a plant a little differently than usual.
When looking at a clone you can see that they grow asymmetrically. Some branches are stronger and develop faster than others.
Previously, in veg, when looking down on a clone, I was biasing the strongest branches toward the light. You have all seen the result. The plant grows those branches in an exaggerated fashion. Producing heavy buds in front but a lot of lighter, fluffier stuff in the interior.
I have one plant that has about 2 weeks to go before harvest. I vegged this plant five weeks.
During veg I biased the heaviest branches to the sides. Some were already inclined that way naturally. I have been breaking the rest of the branches right at the main stem and forcing them to grow out at right angles to the light. So the back side of the plant is flat again. But the front side is split open or butterflied like a lobster. Treated in this fashion the plant grows a lot of what would be smaller interior branches, only larger and out in the light.
The overall effect compresses the foliage front to back, thereby making the light more available to the all the budsites. Better penetration. The fronts can run closer.
At this point, taking readings with the quantum meter, I can say that we ain't got no penetration. Just 2” in free air drops the umol reading to 1200.
super management of light is a critical key to indoor growing. Shaping plants and positioning lights for maximum effect can make huge differences in yield.
I'm going to a 4 week veg as the 5 week veg using this shaping technique still produced a plant that is too big for the flower room.
This plant was grown with 20/4 lighting also. Bud city.
Saturday I started the first plant to be given the new light schedule. I have given it a few days to acclimate. Today i'll start shaping it the new way.
d9
This occurs in each diurnal cycle. It therefore follows that there exist a reset mechanism of some kind. The most likely trigger for this reset is light or the absence of light.
There could be chemical triggers instead of or as well as light. I have not been able to find anything on that thus far.
These chemical triggers could also stop or slow down the resetting mechanism by making the plant purge or process them before the reset occurs.
But light seems to be the main suspect.
As we know, very few greenhouses get more than 30 moles/day.
Icmag member spurr has remarked the he believes the plant cannot process more than about 48 moles/day. I have not been able to find this information in a research document so I don't know how he came to that conclusion.
The ole miss research was done at levels just below 30 moles/day.
What i'm going to try is to deliver approximately 30 moles in an eight hour period, give 4 hours of darkness, hopefully resetting the mole counter, then 30 moles in a second 8 hour period followed by 4 more hours of darkness.
If the diurnal clock can be reset by light or the absence of light this could be a way of radically accelerating the veg cycle.
If the plant builds up some kind of hormone during photosynthesis that must be processed or eliminated with a longer dark phase than 4 hours this idea will not work.
In conjunction with this I will shorten the vegetative cycle to 4 weeks. By only having 4 plants in veg I hope to be able to super manage them in regards to light.
I have also experimentally shaped a plant a little differently than usual.
When looking at a clone you can see that they grow asymmetrically. Some branches are stronger and develop faster than others.
Previously, in veg, when looking down on a clone, I was biasing the strongest branches toward the light. You have all seen the result. The plant grows those branches in an exaggerated fashion. Producing heavy buds in front but a lot of lighter, fluffier stuff in the interior.
I have one plant that has about 2 weeks to go before harvest. I vegged this plant five weeks.
During veg I biased the heaviest branches to the sides. Some were already inclined that way naturally. I have been breaking the rest of the branches right at the main stem and forcing them to grow out at right angles to the light. So the back side of the plant is flat again. But the front side is split open or butterflied like a lobster. Treated in this fashion the plant grows a lot of what would be smaller interior branches, only larger and out in the light.
The overall effect compresses the foliage front to back, thereby making the light more available to the all the budsites. Better penetration. The fronts can run closer.
At this point, taking readings with the quantum meter, I can say that we ain't got no penetration. Just 2” in free air drops the umol reading to 1200.
super management of light is a critical key to indoor growing. Shaping plants and positioning lights for maximum effect can make huge differences in yield.
I'm going to a 4 week veg as the 5 week veg using this shaping technique still produced a plant that is too big for the flower room.
This plant was grown with 20/4 lighting also. Bud city.
Saturday I started the first plant to be given the new light schedule. I have given it a few days to acclimate. Today i'll start shaping it the new way.
d9
Neat.
daggerinmyback
Member
you just vaporized my city of seedlings with the Hiroshima level knowledge... o_0
