passive plant killer

[delta9nxs]

Hi d9, just a quick note to tell you that you were right about the algae. After a couple of days, there was a clear jell like growth in my flood tray. Not green like algae but a solid sheet on top like ice. pH was up to 7.5 (!) so I changed out all the water and re-nuted to 1.2 EC with pH of 5.7. I made a cover from heavy pond liner and cut some holes for the wicks to dangle down. Hopefully I won't have any more algae problems and my plantlets will continue to grow healthy and vigorous. These wicks are working very well!

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=188&pictureid=863410&thumb=1]View Image[/url] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=188&pictureid=863411&thumb=1]View Image[/url] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=188&pictureid=863412&thumb=1]View Image[/url] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=188&pictureid=863413&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

hi, pete! you do everything so neat and clean! my place is a total mess. i have to launch major search expeditions just to find something. clutter and mess everywhere, but hey, it's not my fuckin' planet so what do i care!

that green algae is all but unstoppable. i keep scrubbing it off and it comes right back. seems like within hours.

later

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Yo.

PPKs are the game changer.

Y'all know this.

Y'all've seen this.

Y'all need to preach this.

(You need good lights. True story.)

 

[delta9nxs]

Yo.

PPKs are the game changer.

Y'all know this.

Y'all've seen this.

Y'all need to preach this.

(You need good lights. True story.)

don't listen to this man, he doesn't know shit from shinola! just the other day we were walking along on one of his sanatorium field trips to the zoo and he looked down at the ground and said "look at that shinola!" i just didn't have the heart to tell him the truth.

 

[high life 45]

Hey D9 as far as the algae goes.

Is it mainly in the 3gallon res?

Perhaps some sort of visor or cap that would go above the drainage holes could block the light.

The lids are only $1.30...

One idea...
Put the bucket on top of a lid.
Trace the bottom of a bucket with a paint pen or sharpie.
Cut the traced circle. (maybe OUTSIDE the line, allowing the lid to slide up the bucket)
Slide lid above the drainage holes.
Glue in place.
Glue (or even screw) vinyl baseboard to outside of lid.


Would this allow roots to grow out of the bucket drainage holes. that could eventually block the drainage holes in the lid?

Am I just complicating things.

don't listen to this man, he doesn't know shit from shinola! just the other day we were walking along on one of his sanatorium field trips to the zoo and he looked down at the ground and said "look at that shinola!" i just didn't have the heart to tell him the truth.

LOL

 

[petemoss]

don't listen to this man, he doesn't know shit from shinola! just the other day we were walking along on one of his sanatorium field trips to the zoo and he looked down at the ground and said "look at that shinola!" i just didn't have the heart to tell him the truth.

Maybe this will help IF:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Bfe6CgYbH8

or this:
http://www.geo.uzh.ch/microsite/rsl..._TP-3138608896/2007_Shinola_AImprobRes_TP.pdf

 

[delta9nxs]

Hey D9 as far as the algae goes.

Is it mainly in the 3gallon res?

Perhaps some sort of visor or cap that would go above the drainage holes could block the light.

The lids are only $1.30...

One idea...
Put the bucket on top of a lid.
Trace the bottom of a bucket with a paint pen or sharpie.
Cut the traced circle. (maybe OUTSIDE the line, allowing the lid to slide up the bucket)
Slide lid above the drainage holes.
Glue in place.
Glue (or even screw) vinyl baseboard to outside of lid.


Would this allow roots to grow out of the bucket drainage holes. that could eventually block the drainage holes in the lid?

Am I just complicating things.




LOL

it's not really in the reservoirs growing. it forms around the small drain holes in the lid because they are getting light, water, and nutrients at the right temperature on a regular basis. a health spa for algae.

then some of it drops into the res but it's not really a problem with the 1/4" id line. it moves through the system, gets macerated by the pump and ends up on top of the medium which effectively filters out the visible sized pieces. it's not really a problem.

with the black vinyl drip line which is only .170 id sometimes i got clogs from algae which i had to blow out. other small pieces of crap would occasionally block one.

but the 1/4" line is just big enough to pass everything through. i haven't had a single episode yet.

a 3.5 gal bucket with a 6" tailpiece fits neatly into a 5 gal bucket. two big drawbacks are that you would decrease root access to o2 and grow a lot of roots into the reservoir.

i still don't know what the mechanism is but i have observed many times now that if you let a lot of roots into the res you get a lot of little yellowish white spots just left and right of the center line of the fan leaves. especially the lower ones. the more roots the more spots.

and then when you tear off the excess roots at the flip to flower, end of veg, only a few grow back into the solution. and you don't see the spots.

i think they should be torn off twice during the life of the plant. once at the onset of flowering and once at the end of stretch.

i have never done the end of stretch version as it is a shitpile of hassle. but the one time at the flip is easy.

 

[delta9nxs]

Maybe this will help IF:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Bfe6CgYbH8

or this:
http://www.geo.uzh.ch/microsite/rsl..._TP-3138608896/2007_Shinola_AImprobRes_TP.pdf

i believe the empirical evidence presented by the older gentleman in the video is to be considered seriously, however the value of the research document is highly questionable due to their use of "cordovan" instead of the more accepted "dark brown".

also, the spectral reflectance figures are skewed by the use of dog feces, which is known to display variances. especially if they have been eating babyshit

it would have been more accurate to use human samples standardized by diet and habits. such as the restroom at a mcsickies along the interstate.

it is well known that people who eat at mcsickies never eat anywhere else and eat the same thing everytime. therefore, totally predictable poo.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

So what you all are saying is that there is a difference?

Wait?

What?

I don't get it.

 

[high life 45]

i think they should be torn off twice during the life of the plant. once at the onset of flowering and once at the end of stretch.

i have never done the end of stretch version as it is a shitpile of hassle. but the one time at the flip is easy.

I am planning on having circular wire cages around my girls. At the end of stretch would definately be a two person job.

 

[delta9nxs]

So what you all are saying is that there is a difference?

Wait?

What?

I don't get it.

no, no, my poor dear boy, there really is no difference at all so you don't need to worry about it.

what are you doing? don't pick that up! no, no, don't put that in your mouth! nasty! nasty! no! no! no! bad! bad!

 

[Snook]

sorry it has taken me so long to respond but i was distracted, again.

there are several things happening simultaneously.

the pulse has to have enough volume and duration to create the pwt and an excess.

the pwt is being drained at the same time at high speed but very temporarily there is enough excess to cause the gravitational flow potential to overcome the forces of cohesion and adhesion and force water out of the sidewall holes.

at the point in time when the excess is drained off, either through the tailpiece or out of the sidewall holes, even though the pwt is still temporarily there, the flow out of the sidewall holes stops.

you can observe this when you are loading and washing the medium in the container. i wash it in place with the hose and tap water. when i stop the water is flowing heavily out of all the holes in the sidewall plus the tailpiece. when the excess is drained down to the point where the pwt would naturally occur water stops coming out of the holes in the sidewall and can still be observed coming out of the tailpiece for a few more minutes. during this period the pwt is being removed from the grow container and into the tailpiece, where it is much smaller. the difference in volume is being expelled.

when you look at the new hole pattern with 3/4" holes drilled at the 2.5" point from the outside bottom edge the height on the inside from the bottom to the lower edge of the holes is 1.75". the diameter of the bottom of the bucket is 10.25", so, 5.125 x 5.125 x 3.1416 x 1.75 divided by 231 gives a volume of approx 62.5 ounces total at that level. a little less than a half gallon.

but, we also have media sharing the same area with the liquid. with the turface/ricehull mix of 3/1 you get an approx air porosity of 35% and a water holding capacity of approx 35% so that means the total free water holding capacity of the already wet medium is temporarily approx 35%. by free water i mean water that will not be retained in the medium after draining.

as 35% of 62.5 oz's is 21.87 oz's with a 64 oz pulse you are left with approx 42.13 oz's that is going to be drained. editing to say that this is the amount above the volume that is required to form the pwt.

you could just figure this out for your application and only give the precise amount and, as we have just had pointed out to us, this will work and grow a plant. probably a very nice plant depending on who you are but if you give it an excess that both maximizes the gas exchange and really gives the medium a good bath you will grow a bigger nice plant. the design modifications that we have done reflect this thinking. the experiences that we all have collectively here prove it.

again, sorry for the delay.

WOW! Cant ask for a more complete answer than that.
You're an amazing individual.

 

[delta9nxs]

I am planning on having circular wire cages around my girls. At the end of stretch would definately be a two person job.

yeah, my back is always hurtin' by the time of day that i can access the plants in flower. i would have to turn off 2 lights to keep from burning the plant as i pull it away from the wall, remove the pulse terminal, then pick up what has now become a rather large plant, and hold it in the air while mrs d reaches under and tears off the roots.

so, they stay. but they don't grow back much anyway. i think that in normal, healthy environments the roots are about finished growing by the end of stretch. maybe they are capable of growing more at any time if a large loss occurs but in normal conditions where they are getting fed regularly they have no need to.

 

[delta9nxs]

WOW! Cant ask for a more complete answer than that.
You're an amazing individual.

you do be quite welcome! always glad to help people grow this beautiful plant.

 

[delta9nxs]

.

 

[delta9nxs]

i did it again. you would think that i would remember how to do this from day to day, but i........... what was i doing again?


the "evil trainwreck"

photo credit to mrs d9

oh yeah, still 2 weeks to go before the whacking.

 

[stagehand099]

i don't believe coco intrinsically grows a bigger plant. plants love turface. and rice hulls. no salt and no cec binding problems.

but, overall, i liked coco. if you can get it locally and cheap it is a viable alternative. test it for porosity and retention. wash the hell out of it and treat it with a 2000 ppm solution before using.

Hey Delta9, could you discuss in more detail the above? 2000 PPM? I'm having a bitch of a time on my first ever run with 3 parts Coir to 1 part perlite. I have everything done on my PPK's except the pump manifold so not using them yet. Next run for sure with pics. I think my original Bros. Grimm C99 cut will be epic in the PPKs.

I'm using GH Cocotek big bricks (5 kg), rinsed well and precharged with calmag at 5 ml per gal. I'm handwatering 600 ppm Jacks Hydro + Calcnit every other day in 2 gal black nursery pots. Runoff is about 20 percent everytime and now reads around 1600-1800 ppm! I wetvac the runoff so they arent re-absorbing it. WTF? I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

The plants look pretty ok but not great. pH of the runoff is lower than input juice by .3-.5. Example: I flushed 2-3 gallons through each pot 2 days ago with 300 ppm feed at 6.0 pH and the runoff was around 1000 ppm at 5.4 to 5.7 ph. I've got some Dripclean coming to see if I can melt some of the salt buildup but I'm very confused and disheartened by my first chem/hydro outing. Anything come to mind? Thanks.

stagehand

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Stagehand,

The plants look pretty ok but not great.

Pics? (Mostly for size issues...)

I'm feeding 600 ppm Jacks Hydro + Calcnit every other day in 2 gal black nursery pots.

Growing in nursery pots is fundamentally different than growing in PPKs. But I'm sure you know that already, which is why you are building out your Killers.

I trust you are waiting for the media to dry a degree, yes? Plants are relatively small, yes?

My uninformed guess is that they are simply up taking more water than nutes, leaving salts in the media that you are flushing out with your second day watering cycle.

This increased salt concentration may be why your pH is reading low.

I would suggest putting them up on blocks, shoving some nylon rope into one of the drain holes and watering daily. Hopefully, the wick will help pull out your PWT, giving your confidence to water more often and flush out the excess nutes sooner. (You can adjust your feed EC to bring your EC in run off closer to what you are looking for...)

There is no correlation between PPK feed methodology/mythology and DTW approaches.

PPKs continually extract and recirculate all salts in the system. DTW tries and to leave the right amount behind that matches nute demands between water cycles.

Which is why I'm recommending that you water more often with a lower EC.

And shove some rope up their asses.

Put on gloves, so you don't get any shynola on your hands.

 

[disciple]

 

[delta9nxs]

he's right. you absolutely should wear gloves!

EDITING again. disciple dropped one in on me while i was trying to post this.

everything you are hearing from IF and disciple is perfectly correct and the only thing i can add is that you should look back a page or 2 at pete's post. i like the way he raised them up. something like that with a wick should get you to harvest this time. i'm glad you posted this. everyone is here to help. almost.

 

[Treebeard]

Stagehand....coco should never be allowed to dry out. As it dries, salt accumulates. I would venture that your runoff readings are because you aren't watering enough. I'd try watering at least once a day, if not twice. Check out Head's coco thread. More waterings provide lots of oxygen to the roots as well as speed up growth.