seventhchild
Member
i better not miss with moms hempy's..she is very old and set in her ways...i think i'll just put the wicks in the bottom of my own mother plants buckets...
passive plant killer
- Thread starter delta9nxs
- Start date
"hey everyone,
The only thing I can't find is a link to a multi-page pdf? about using capillary mats. It was posted as just a link (i think) so searching for keywords yields nothing. Might be easier than individual wicks for a SOG. Just lay down the matting first and hang it over the edge 8". You could do a few plants this way to see what happens"
see "controlled water table". this could be done but you will have a huge evaporative loss. this could possibly affect solution stability.
The only thing I can't find is a link to a multi-page pdf? about using capillary mats. It was posted as just a link (i think) so searching for keywords yields nothing. Might be easier than individual wicks for a SOG. Just lay down the matting first and hang it over the edge 8". You could do a few plants this way to see what happens"
see "controlled water table". this could be done but you will have a huge evaporative loss. this could possibly affect solution stability.
sure Delta..much respect for your work and the way you deal with people...sprouted first seeds in 75..harvested first buds in 76..harvested first MATURE buds in 78....first indoor room in 82 was a 5' tall 10' by 10' dirt hole under a house...55 degrees year round...mounted 10 8' t12's on a piece of plywood ....took 6 months to grow those 4 oz's...now using 3600 watts HPS and CMH over a 6' x 9' perpetual SOG...moms are in standard hempy buckets...pump and wand hand watering DTW in PROMIX...TAP WATER and JACKS 10-30-20 at 750 ppm 6.2 PH...6 to 8 oz's per week harvest...i love spending time with my girls but medical issues are starting to make what was once easy more difficult..not trying to increase yield...a little automation seems to be what i need..going to add wicks to my moms hempy's..
thank you! if you build a pulse irrigated system with a volume tank to feed it for a few days or a week you can really cut down on labor.
that was one of my goals in this effort. to streamline the labor processes and break them up into shorter, more manageable episodes.
even though i have almost completely recovered from ten years of intense medical bs and feel good i am still ten years older and have some chronic pain issues with my back and bone joints.
i'm paying the price now for all the heavy lifting i stupidly did 30-35 years ago.
but it's good that for chronic pain we have chronic.
i'm just about to burn a "loosen up" bowl of grape kush right now. it's an "uppity" weed with aspirations. very motivating.
http://www.uky.edu/Ag/CDBREC/cwt.htm
a good basic link. if you want more go to google scholar, there is a lot of material on this.
the drawbacks are the loss due to evaporation as mentioned and you are going to have massive amounts of algae.
fine for small plants but does not grow large plants well.
a good basic link. if you want more go to google scholar, there is a lot of material on this.
the drawbacks are the loss due to evaporation as mentioned and you are going to have massive amounts of algae.
fine for small plants but does not grow large plants well.
D
disciple
Thanks again for the help everyone, and my apologies that it took so long in offering thanks Delta, I thought I did...
So my room is just about complete, and all my parts are ordered and bought. I just have a few more questions before I begin the real construction...
I saw you mentioned briefly that the height of the float valve is dependent upon the size of the control reservoir, but didn't really go in depth. I'm using one of those blue 55 Gallon plastic drums. Am I looking to center the valve?
I'm also curious as to your method for topping off your nutrients. Do you mix up your ~600ppm Jacks in a separate container, then add that to the reservoir? Or do you just add your water into the reservoir, then nutrients, all right there in the reservoir itself? I'm just curious as to how you maintain the ppm balance when topping off, if using a separate container, because I assume when the plants feed that ppm is constantly dropping...(or is the solution remaining constant?)
And lastly, you're using the Flora Nova Bloom as clones? So even your first watering as babies is 300ppm FNB? And then straight to 600ppm Jacks once you see some roots developing? Also, are you using a 1:1 ratio of Jacks Pro : Jacks Calcium Nitrate? Are you always using the Calcium Nitrate?
Thanks so much again for the help.
So my room is just about complete, and all my parts are ordered and bought. I just have a few more questions before I begin the real construction...
I saw you mentioned briefly that the height of the float valve is dependent upon the size of the control reservoir, but didn't really go in depth. I'm using one of those blue 55 Gallon plastic drums. Am I looking to center the valve?
I'm also curious as to your method for topping off your nutrients. Do you mix up your ~600ppm Jacks in a separate container, then add that to the reservoir? Or do you just add your water into the reservoir, then nutrients, all right there in the reservoir itself? I'm just curious as to how you maintain the ppm balance when topping off, if using a separate container, because I assume when the plants feed that ppm is constantly dropping...(or is the solution remaining constant?)
And lastly, you're using the Flora Nova Bloom as clones? So even your first watering as babies is 300ppm FNB? And then straight to 600ppm Jacks once you see some roots developing? Also, are you using a 1:1 ratio of Jacks Pro : Jacks Calcium Nitrate? Are you always using the Calcium Nitrate?
Thanks so much again for the help.
“Quotes by hossauce”
“Thanks again for the help everyone, and my apologies that it took so long in offering thanks Delta, I thought I did...
So my room is just about complete, and all my parts are ordered and bought. I just have a few more questions before I begin the real construction...”
thank me when you have harvested a big ole pile of homemade medicine!
“I saw you mentioned briefly that the height of the float valve is dependent upon the size of the control reservoir, but didn't really go in depth. I'm using one of those blue 55 Gallon plastic drums. Am I looking to center the valve?”
i'm a little confused here. It sounds like you are using a “volume tank” for a “control” bucket. The control bucket only has to be large enough for for the valve itself. It actually is in your favor to run it as small as possible because the venturi effect will help keep nutrients in solution. The smaller a container is the faster a complete exchange occurs.
I believe it was member daggerinmyback who called jrpeters and described the system to them. He said they were surprised that there was no precipitation without air stones. The venturi effect explains it.
I think you said you are going to run 4 plants grouped around a 1k. Are you using the 3.5 gal buckets for individual plants reservoirs? If so you want your control bucket to have an operating level of between 7-8” of depth. I have found that mounting the float valve through a hole centered at 10.5” will provide the adjustability you need. This gets you a 3-4” air gap in the plant reservoirs. A 55 gal drum is entirely too large just to maintain a 7-8” depth. I use a 44 gal rubbermaid brute trash can for a “volume tank”. I have switched to the “black box” for a combined pump and control chamber. This was only done to be able to supply a large number of plants a large volume of solution in a shorter time frame. If you are just going to run 4 plants as a unit grow you can still use 5 gal buckets.
After running the black box for a while now I can say that it works fine as far as solution stability is concerned. In the “flow diagram” I did earlier in the thread it shows the plant reservoir sub-irrigation and return lines going to the control bucket. The black box method returns to the pump part of the black box. This is faster to equilibrium. I was originally concerned that it would cause solution stability problems but it turns out this is not the case.
If I were running the buckets now I would run the return/sub-irrigation lines back to the “pump” bucket instead of the control bucket. This changes the flow pattern but still achieves the blending effect.
With a 7” level in the control bucket you will also have a 7” level in all parts of the system. At this level the pump bucket will hold approx 2.5 gals of liquid. Depending on your pump intake you should be able to pump out 2 gals without running the pump dry. That is more than enough for four 3.5 gal plants containers.
“I'm also curious as to your method for topping off your nutrients. Do you mix up your ~600ppm Jacks in a separate container, then add that to the reservoir? Or do you just add your water into the reservoir, then nutrients, all right there in the reservoir itself? I'm just curious as to how you maintain the ppm balance when topping off, if using a separate container, because I assume when the plants feed that ppm is constantly dropping...(or is the solution remaining constant?)”
yes, I always mix in a separate container. A dedicated mixing container. I then pump that up into my volume tanks which remain uncontaminated working strength solution. There is always some solution in them so i'm just topping off a clean, unused solution with clean, unused solution. This approach does away with add back routines and stops unwanted chemical changes from occurring that can occur when you add concentrated nutrients to an existing working strength solution.
Every thing that I have done design wise to this thing has been with solution stability in mind.
I have 2 different systems, one for veg and one for flower. The nutrients get consumed not only at different rates but concentration moves in different directions.
In the veg system I am currently feeding 750 ppm. This is what it takes to maintain around 600 ppm in the plant reservoirs. Ph stays around 5.8. right now 5 plants but soon to be 6. all a week apart in growth.
in the flowering system I am currently feeding 600 ppm and the plant reservoirs run around 1150 ppm. This is with 8 large plants approx a week apart. Ph runs around 5.4-5.5.
so you can see that the plants take up nutrients at different rates throughout their lives and use individual nutrients at different rates within that framework.
For example, in veg I think that they are consuming nitrate nitrogen at high rates but not so much in flower.
The 3-1-4 ratio that jack's gives you when mixed properly is based on post harvest tissue analysis. But that doesn't mean the the nutrients are consumed at that exact ratio at every step of their lives. Each individual plants takes what it needs when it needs it.
“And lastly, you're using the Flora Nova Bloom as clones? So even your first watering as babies is 300ppm FNB? And then straight to 600ppm Jacks once you see some roots developing?”
I soak the turface in 300 ppm fnb for about an hour and then put the same strength in the cloner reservoirs about half full. Must have that air gap. I then clone straight into that and leave them in it until rooted. When I see significant roots at the sidewall I will start top watering with jacks at 600 ppm.
“Also, are you using a 1:1 ratio of Jacks Pro : Jacks Calcium Nitrate? Are you always using the Calcium Nitrate?”
the 1/1 ratio is for mixing by volume only. 3/8 tsp of each should get you around 750 ppm.
If you have a meter use it to mix. The ratio for this method is 1/.67 jack's/calcinit. This is the preferred method. More accurate.
If you mix by weight the ratio is 1/.67 approx but really, at this point, i'm sorry I even mentioned that it could be done this way as it has created a shitpile of confusion.
yes, I use the calcinit every time. Think solution stability.
“Thanks so much again for the help.”
no problem, that's what i'm here for.
d9
“Thanks again for the help everyone, and my apologies that it took so long in offering thanks Delta, I thought I did...
So my room is just about complete, and all my parts are ordered and bought. I just have a few more questions before I begin the real construction...”
thank me when you have harvested a big ole pile of homemade medicine!
“I saw you mentioned briefly that the height of the float valve is dependent upon the size of the control reservoir, but didn't really go in depth. I'm using one of those blue 55 Gallon plastic drums. Am I looking to center the valve?”
i'm a little confused here. It sounds like you are using a “volume tank” for a “control” bucket. The control bucket only has to be large enough for for the valve itself. It actually is in your favor to run it as small as possible because the venturi effect will help keep nutrients in solution. The smaller a container is the faster a complete exchange occurs.
I believe it was member daggerinmyback who called jrpeters and described the system to them. He said they were surprised that there was no precipitation without air stones. The venturi effect explains it.
I think you said you are going to run 4 plants grouped around a 1k. Are you using the 3.5 gal buckets for individual plants reservoirs? If so you want your control bucket to have an operating level of between 7-8” of depth. I have found that mounting the float valve through a hole centered at 10.5” will provide the adjustability you need. This gets you a 3-4” air gap in the plant reservoirs. A 55 gal drum is entirely too large just to maintain a 7-8” depth. I use a 44 gal rubbermaid brute trash can for a “volume tank”. I have switched to the “black box” for a combined pump and control chamber. This was only done to be able to supply a large number of plants a large volume of solution in a shorter time frame. If you are just going to run 4 plants as a unit grow you can still use 5 gal buckets.
After running the black box for a while now I can say that it works fine as far as solution stability is concerned. In the “flow diagram” I did earlier in the thread it shows the plant reservoir sub-irrigation and return lines going to the control bucket. The black box method returns to the pump part of the black box. This is faster to equilibrium. I was originally concerned that it would cause solution stability problems but it turns out this is not the case.
If I were running the buckets now I would run the return/sub-irrigation lines back to the “pump” bucket instead of the control bucket. This changes the flow pattern but still achieves the blending effect.
With a 7” level in the control bucket you will also have a 7” level in all parts of the system. At this level the pump bucket will hold approx 2.5 gals of liquid. Depending on your pump intake you should be able to pump out 2 gals without running the pump dry. That is more than enough for four 3.5 gal plants containers.
“I'm also curious as to your method for topping off your nutrients. Do you mix up your ~600ppm Jacks in a separate container, then add that to the reservoir? Or do you just add your water into the reservoir, then nutrients, all right there in the reservoir itself? I'm just curious as to how you maintain the ppm balance when topping off, if using a separate container, because I assume when the plants feed that ppm is constantly dropping...(or is the solution remaining constant?)”
yes, I always mix in a separate container. A dedicated mixing container. I then pump that up into my volume tanks which remain uncontaminated working strength solution. There is always some solution in them so i'm just topping off a clean, unused solution with clean, unused solution. This approach does away with add back routines and stops unwanted chemical changes from occurring that can occur when you add concentrated nutrients to an existing working strength solution.
Every thing that I have done design wise to this thing has been with solution stability in mind.
I have 2 different systems, one for veg and one for flower. The nutrients get consumed not only at different rates but concentration moves in different directions.
In the veg system I am currently feeding 750 ppm. This is what it takes to maintain around 600 ppm in the plant reservoirs. Ph stays around 5.8. right now 5 plants but soon to be 6. all a week apart in growth.
in the flowering system I am currently feeding 600 ppm and the plant reservoirs run around 1150 ppm. This is with 8 large plants approx a week apart. Ph runs around 5.4-5.5.
so you can see that the plants take up nutrients at different rates throughout their lives and use individual nutrients at different rates within that framework.
For example, in veg I think that they are consuming nitrate nitrogen at high rates but not so much in flower.
The 3-1-4 ratio that jack's gives you when mixed properly is based on post harvest tissue analysis. But that doesn't mean the the nutrients are consumed at that exact ratio at every step of their lives. Each individual plants takes what it needs when it needs it.
“And lastly, you're using the Flora Nova Bloom as clones? So even your first watering as babies is 300ppm FNB? And then straight to 600ppm Jacks once you see some roots developing?”
I soak the turface in 300 ppm fnb for about an hour and then put the same strength in the cloner reservoirs about half full. Must have that air gap. I then clone straight into that and leave them in it until rooted. When I see significant roots at the sidewall I will start top watering with jacks at 600 ppm.
“Also, are you using a 1:1 ratio of Jacks Pro : Jacks Calcium Nitrate? Are you always using the Calcium Nitrate?”
the 1/1 ratio is for mixing by volume only. 3/8 tsp of each should get you around 750 ppm.
If you have a meter use it to mix. The ratio for this method is 1/.67 jack's/calcinit. This is the preferred method. More accurate.
If you mix by weight the ratio is 1/.67 approx but really, at this point, i'm sorry I even mentioned that it could be done this way as it has created a shitpile of confusion.
yes, I use the calcinit every time. Think solution stability.
“Thanks so much again for the help.”
no problem, that's what i'm here for.
d9
pics or it didn't happen!
Thanks Delta.
I'm going to be running 12 units, as opposed to 4, so that's why I was considering using the volume tank. If I'm using the standard 5 gallon bucket for my control bucket, I'm assuming I'll have to top it off at least once a day? That's what I was hoping to avoid. I could always obviously use the same 44gallon tub you used, but I'm just trying to make use of some of the extra materials I have here.
You also mentioned that if you were to run the system again, you would have the subirrigation lines going back to the pump bucket, rather than the control bucket. So the control bucket would consist of just the float valve, which contains the connection to the pump bucket, and that's it? Then the pump bucket would run the pulse manifold, as well as the lines to the individual reservoirs? Would you still place the valve stems along the bottom of the bucket? I'm just trying to envision it before my buckets come in today
I'm going to be running 12 units, as opposed to 4, so that's why I was considering using the volume tank. If I'm using the standard 5 gallon bucket for my control bucket, I'm assuming I'll have to top it off at least once a day? That's what I was hoping to avoid. I could always obviously use the same 44gallon tub you used, but I'm just trying to make use of some of the extra materials I have here.
You also mentioned that if you were to run the system again, you would have the subirrigation lines going back to the pump bucket, rather than the control bucket. So the control bucket would consist of just the float valve, which contains the connection to the pump bucket, and that's it? Then the pump bucket would run the pulse manifold, as well as the lines to the individual reservoirs? Would you still place the valve stems along the bottom of the bucket? I'm just trying to envision it before my buckets come in today
you are talking to the worlds worst pack rat! every time i think i need something from the hardware store my wife makes me go out to the shed and dig until i find it. i've always got one somewhere, whatever it is.
Thanks Delta.
I'm going to be running 12 units, as opposed to 4, so that's why I was considering using the volume tank. If I'm using the standard 5 gallon bucket for my control bucket, I'm assuming I'll have to top it off at least once a day? That's what I was hoping to avoid. I could always obviously use the same 44gallon tub you used, but I'm just trying to make use of some of the extra materials I have here.
You also mentioned that if you were to run the system again, you would have the subirrigation lines going back to the pump bucket, rather than the control bucket. So the control bucket would consist of just the float valve, which contains the connection to the pump bucket, and that's it? Then the pump bucket would run the pulse manifold, as well as the lines to the individual reservoirs? Would you still place the valve stems along the bottom of the bucket? I'm just trying to envision it before my buckets come in today
i'm getting more confused! if you are going to run 12 buckets do yourself a favor and build the black box. it is no more difficult than building with buckets. same principles apply just different looking containers.
your use of language in regards to this indicates that you need to clarify your understanding of how it works before you start building.
why don't you put up a drawing of your proposed system and a list of your materials and we'll go through the building process step by step. it will be good for you and for new people in general as it would show a current build in progress.
d9
Drawing & Materials
Drawing & Materials
Delta,
Here is my very basic drawing of my room. I also took a picture of most of my supplies, minus the buckets, timer, connector tubing, as well as Jacks. That's all on the way. All my tailpieces are drilled and cable tied. All of my valve stems are drilled out. I fabricated the pulse manifold, and you can also see the Drip T's that I've used. I'm just going to probably put 2-3" extentions of the 1/4" drip line off of each T to allow for more equal coverage. All in all, minus your black box, which I will most likely use, I should have all the items necessary to build later today or tomorrow, apart from the minor things I've done already. I thought my understanding of the system was decent, but maybe I'm wrong. Any help, thoughts, concerns, or questions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again
Drawing & Materials
Delta,
Here is my very basic drawing of my room. I also took a picture of most of my supplies, minus the buckets, timer, connector tubing, as well as Jacks. That's all on the way. All my tailpieces are drilled and cable tied. All of my valve stems are drilled out. I fabricated the pulse manifold, and you can also see the Drip T's that I've used. I'm just going to probably put 2-3" extentions of the 1/4" drip line off of each T to allow for more equal coverage. All in all, minus your black box, which I will most likely use, I should have all the items necessary to build later today or tomorrow, apart from the minor things I've done already. I thought my understanding of the system was decent, but maybe I'm wrong. Any help, thoughts, concerns, or questions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again
Delta,
Here is my very basic drawing of my room. I also took a picture of most of my supplies, minus the buckets, timer, connector tubing, as well as Jacks. That's all on the way. All my tailpieces are drilled and cable tied. All of my valve stems are drilled out. I fabricated the pulse manifold, and you can also see the Drip T's that I've used. I'm just going to probably put 2-3" extentions of the 1/4" drip line off of each T to allow for more equal coverage. All in all, minus your black box, which I will most likely use, I should have all the items necessary to build later today or tomorrow, apart from the minor things I've done already. I thought my understanding of the system was decent, but maybe I'm wrong. Any help, thoughts, concerns, or questions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again
ok, i think this is what i call a stage 1 powered plant killer.
your drawing shows the conceptual misunderstanding that we have,
you show a volume tank and a pump bucket but no control bucket. you need all 3 for ideal operation.
1. volume tank is the bulk reservoir. it must be elevated on at least a couple of cement blocks as it supplies the control container by gravity only. no used solution should ever go back into this tank. it should have a single tire valve installed at the bottom of the tank in the lowest position possible. it should have a lid on it.
2. because you are running 12 plant reservoirs your pump chamber will need more volume than can be supplied by a 5 gal bucket half full. i think you should build the "black box".
3. are all of your containers the same size? what exactly are you using for the plants and the reservoirs under them?
4. you are going to have to take the wire ties off the tailpieces to get them through the 1.5" hole you are going to drill in the plant container.
i'll try to find some illustrative material from the thread. i need that "flow" diagram i made earlier.
at last! ok. you see the lines indicating direction of flow.
the volume tank must be elevated. it must flow to the control container, which in the "black box" version is the marine battery box.
from the control container to the pump container.
now we have the change of direction. take the 2 way sub-irrigation flow line off the connection from the green plant reservoir to the blue control container and instead make them go from the red pump container to the plant reservoirs. this should have 2 arrows depicting the two way flow.
the existing line from the red pump container to the plant medium containers stays as is, it is the pulse delivery line.
and hossauce, your understanding is decent, it's just that this thread has gotten so big that it is hard to find specific things and stay up with changes.
i really don't mind helping people build.
the volume tank must be elevated. it must flow to the control container, which in the "black box" version is the marine battery box.
from the control container to the pump container.
now we have the change of direction. take the 2 way sub-irrigation flow line off the connection from the green plant reservoir to the blue control container and instead make them go from the red pump container to the plant reservoirs. this should have 2 arrows depicting the two way flow.
the existing line from the red pump container to the plant medium containers stays as is, it is the pulse delivery line.
and hossauce, your understanding is decent, it's just that this thread has gotten so big that it is hard to find specific things and stay up with changes.
i really don't mind helping people build.
Last edited:
stagehand099
Member
D9 made sure he got that 3000th post with that "won't expand" stuff.... hey D9, congrats on one of the most sucessful threads (and concepts of course) on ICMag. Anything that can help buy a place in the country is a winner to me.......
stagehand
stagehand
Ahhhh ok. Thanks for the clarification about the volume tank. I'm going to build a black box like you suggested to make things easier. For my plant containers I'm using the 3.5 Gallon buckets from usplastics.com. Blah, thought I could pre-ziptie the tailpieces cause of the 2.5" hole, but forgot about the smaller hole in the top bucket, lol.
Just want to clarify that I'm thinking correctly about your flow diagram. So instead of running the line from the control buckets to each plant reservoir, I should run that from the pump bucket? So the pulse, and the irrigation lines both come from the pump bucket, and the control bucket is just to serve essentially as a water level? Should I still place these valve stems on the bottom of the pump bucket, as I would with the control bucket? And lastly, on your volume tank, do you physically connect it to the control bucket, or do you just pump your solution into there?
Just want to clarify that I'm thinking correctly about your flow diagram. So instead of running the line from the control buckets to each plant reservoir, I should run that from the pump bucket? So the pulse, and the irrigation lines both come from the pump bucket, and the control bucket is just to serve essentially as a water level? Should I still place these valve stems on the bottom of the pump bucket, as I would with the control bucket? And lastly, on your volume tank, do you physically connect it to the control bucket, or do you just pump your solution into there?
