Painting the Growroom.

[clampie]

After a few mentions in another thread about what to cover the walls of a room with, I thought maybe it would benefit some to have a thread dedicated to one popular method.

flat. white. paint.

Welcome, welcome.. please stay and contribute. This is meant to help those who haven't much painting experience via those who do.

I've been a painter for many years, so I am biased about doing a thorough job. I admit some things I say here might be overboard, but I spend a lot of time in that room, and so it's worth the effort to have a really tight space (visually, as well as well-functioning). And a monkey can do the job, but it has to be a thorough-minded monkey with attention to detail, and one who's able to follow a fairly exact process..

I've tried Mylar and Panda Film, and have since settled on flat white wall paint, with the surfaces prepped thoroughly. Here are the main reasons that come to mind:

1. Reflectivity. over 85% (comparable to mylar), plus flat white paint diffuses light, spreading it more evenly around the room, and making it more available to the plants. This diffusion is why you want to paint EVERYTHING WHITE (including the floor, if possible), so that light keeps spreading around the room.

2. Easier Maintenance. Properly painted walls can be cleaned, wiped down, etc, very easily, and will stand up to scrubbing. Properly prepped surfaces (including filling/caulking holes/cracks/seams) make your room more impervious to problems from outside environmental factors

3. Less work/expense in the long run. Films attached to the walls create a space where moisture builds up. This can cause numerous problems, leading to the replacement of the wall covering. you can paint an entire 10x10x7 room pristinely for not a ton of money, relatively.

If anyone is interested in this thread, I will gladly tell of my process for prepping/painting the room (and all therein) in a day, making it sound like an easy, thorough, effective, and relatively inexpensive room improvement that will make you glad you spent the time every time you enter.

I welcome any and all opinions on the subject, just back them up with reasons and kindness, please.. Politeness goes without saying.

That's enough for now, hope all is well for all...
-c

 

[DaPurps]

Cool

Well.. I've been in the bucket for a long number of years myself. Can't say that I would argue with anything you have said.

I would like to add, when using caulking in an application that is to be painted, do not use Silicon. Unless the siliconized acrylic specifically says "paintable", you can't paint silicone with any real sucess. I see home-owners do it every day.

 

[FinestKind]

Very nice... this may become a "Painter/Grower" sub-forum, or something... And I agree completely, of course, about the ease and overall comparable reflectivity of paint vs. most other methods. I think you will find that a lot of people on here agree with this, actually.

A couple of things I could add to this (by way of experience...)

1) Use a "scrubbable matte" paint as opposed to a true flat or ceiling paint. You can't scrub flat and/or ceiling paint- stains absorb into the finish and the paint "chalks off" when you try to scrub it. I know this because I did both of these in my grow room, thinking it would be "flatter" and therefore more reflective. I don't know how much more reflectivity you gain by using flat vs. "matte" (I imagine it's a very small amount), but it's not worth it- at least if you ever want to clean your walls!

2)Some people have discussed heat-reflective paints that resist FLIR. I'd personally like to know more about this, mainly because it fascinates me, not so much because I need it (I live in the sticks in a very rural part of a very rural state... I don't think they're sending choppers or anyone else out to look for me).

And yes, proper prep (especially caulking!) can make sealing your grow room a whole hell of a lot easier!!

FK

 

[FinestKind]

 

[clampie]

hiya everybody.

I don't want to make people who like mylar or other products feel like I'm singling them out on other threads, because it makes no difference to me, but for me there's no question which is the best option, hence this thread dedicated to it...

very true, DP, non-paintable silicon is only good for waterproofing, like the seams of my tables, for instance. In that case, it is applied after everything is fully painted.

fk, hey buddy. you are right about the matte. that's the best option, unless you don't care about stains in a couple of years because you won't be around,of course. As always, I'll try to give many options for people based on time/finances/motivation/etc.
Benjamin Moore makes a good cheap-ish interior matte that I'm familiar with.

 

[clampie]

got it. thanks..

 

[Bunz]

Oil based kilz.............seals the surface it's applied to and is easily scrubbable. I've been painting my rooms/cabs with this for years now.

 

[clampie]

a painting process...

a painting process...

absolutely, B. For those of you that don't mind dealing with oil-based, it will do like you say, and I wouldn't recommend latex primer if that's all you are going to use. I, myself, hate working with oil. Too many years of being around those VOCs... For myself, I find it easiest, and healthiest, to follow this basic process:

of course, I recommend adequate ventilation, and/or a respirator for dust/fumes. Paint fumes are really bad for your nervous/respiratory (and other) systems.

1. Clear: the room of everything except what is getting painted.
2. Remove: all hardware/plates/nails/screws.
3. Clean: all surfaces (I wipe everything down with a bleach solution, after a quick sweep/vacuum of all surfaces). if not painting the floor, put down dropcloths on areas not to be painted.
4. Prep: sand all glossy paints (just to remove gloss) fill all holes with putty, spackle, etc.. I recommend lightweight spackle (fluff) as my first choice. It isn't messy, and dries quickly.
5. Priming: First, make sure every surface is clean/dry (wiped with a damp cloth works great). Use a good latex all-purpose primer like Benjamin Moore Fresh Start or Kilz Premium. Prime all surfaces, (see additional posts for painting tips, as this is just an overview). Priming seals the surface, and makes it ready to accept the topcoat, which provides opacity/durability/etc.. As a general rule, you will go through twice as much primer as topcoat. Part of the reason is the chemistry of the product, but another is that, when priming, make sure to penetrate that stuff into every little seam and crack. This is where good prepping/filling saves time and effort.
6. Caulk: "anywhere you see black" is a good rule of thumb. That means cracks, seams, joints, where trim meets walls, walls meet baseboards, etc. When you finish, the room should look "tight". Caulking, besides making the room environmentally tighter, also makes painting easier, as bristles don't get caught in cracks, and paint doesn't pool and drip.
7. Top coat (finish paint): use a flat wall paint, or, as FinestKind mentioned, a matte finish (basically flat) is the best option due to it's washablilty. The less of the gloss in the paint, the better the light diffusion!!!
8. 2nd coat: unless you started with white walls, you will want to do a second coat of finish paint. Even if you did, this is the way to make the walls the whitest, and the most durable. Don't worry, each time you go over the room will take less time. Priming's the longest, and this 2nd coat flies..

***The best part about painting EVERYTHING white, is that you don't have to worry about cutting, etc. grab a 3" brush, a 9" roller with a 1/2" nap, and go to town. always work top to bottom, left to right. That way you know where you've been (it can get confusing with the whiteness of it all). If you want to paint the floor, the best choice is deck & floor paint (has epoxy in it), but you can get away with a coat of wall paint. It will wear away faster, but your floor is going to get trashed anyway, most likely... Maybe easier to repaint every couple of years...

step back from all the walls/ceiling/trim/window coverings/floor/tables/shelves as they flatly-gleam white and think of all the lumens you've saved. More lumens = more product.

that's all for now. hope it helps! I'm happy to tailor this kind of plan for anyone who needs a cheaper one.

-c

 

[clampie]

Paint is a wall covering.

Paint is a wall covering.

almost forgot...

remember, when people talk about paint vs. wall coverings, that paint IS a wallcovering. it is exactly like a thin latex (or otherwise) barrier you are enclosing your room in. It protects the walls from stain and moisture, and gives the plants diffused/reflected light. The walls hold it up, and the prepwork and priming are a part of the application process. If you want to end with a sweet job, do all the steps diligently, or, ignore them, and learn why they are important.

Not only that, but even if you use mylar, you still need to at least prime drywall/etc behind it, or else it will absorb moisture and you absolutely will have mildew problems at least.

Personally, I'd rather do all of the above, and end up with a bright room that doesn't flap when the fans blow, breed mildew/mold from trapped moisture, nor need to be refastened, stapled, or replaced. Done right, you won't have to do anything for many years, most likely, except for an occasional clean/sterilize if you are so inclined.

best..

 

[xcrispi]

Hey clampie ,
I already did the mold / mildew hiding behind the mylar thing a decade ago = no fun . We went as far as to borrow a light meter and check reflectivity of a cpl. dif surfaces - mylar , gloss wht paint , flat wht paint , and the 4x8 sheets of white shower surround material at Home Cheapo . Once mylars been wiped , washed a cpl. times it's no better than flat wht paint - we checked . Old mylar and flat wht were damn close .
After all this - once we gave the meter back we went and used eggshell and not true flat paint because we thought it might wash up better and might not stain as easily. Think I fucked myself as far as reflectivity using eggshell ? And are mildex etc... paint additives worhwhile / really help or not ?
Thanks
Crispi

 

[FinestKind]

Hey clampie ,
I already did the mold / mildew hiding behind the mylar thing a decade ago = no fun . We went as far as to borrow a light meter and check reflectivity of a cpl. dif surfaces - mylar , gloss wht paint , flat wht paint , and the 4x8 sheets of white shower surround material at Home Cheapo . Once mylars been wiped , washed a cpl. times it's no better than flat wht paint - we checked . Old mylar and flat wht were damn close .
After all this - once we gave the meter back we went and used eggshell and not true flat paint because we thought it might wash up better and might not stain as easily. Think I fucked myself as far as reflectivity using eggshell ? And are mildex etc... paint additives worhwhile / really help or not ?
Thanks
Crispi

Dammit, I just posted a long-winded answer to this, but it didn't send when I hit "submit reply", and then I closed the page... so here's the abbreviated version:

1) Eggshell. Not as good as flat/matte, but probably not the end of the world, either. If you can afford the $/time, I'd consider repainting it; if not, let it ride.

2) Mildex. Intended for exterior use. Probably not the best idea for a grow room. Effects don't last very long, anyway... as long as you have a scrubbable surface, as discussed above, the mildew will have less of a place to get a hold; also, I sometimes do a bleach spray (3 to 1 water to bleach) in between cycles, making sure there are no plants in there, of course. And trust me on this: WEAR A RESPIRATOR! Seriously, the shit is nasty.

As a side note, I DO use exterior paint on my tables (or your floors, if that's your thing)... it is more mildew resistant and more durable, and I think as long as you give it plenty of time to dry, the "off gasses" aren't going to hurt anything.

Feel free to disagree, Clampie, not trying to hijack your thread!

FK

 

[FinestKind]

do all the steps diligently, or, ignore them, and learn why they are important.

Indeed.

 

[Dr.Greenthmb420]

Sweet, cant wait to see some pics. I may take down the Panda Plastic once i dry wall the entire room. The wall in this pic is cement and will probably get around to surfacing it and painting. Good Luck Man!

 

[love2gro]

Interior velvet flat would also work..little bit of sheen when you look at it from an angle but appears flat strait on..and you can clean it.

 

[clampie]

Dammit, I just posted a long-winded answer to this, but it didn't send when I hit "submit reply", and then I closed the page... so here's the abbreviated version:

1) Eggshell. Not as good as flat/matte, but probably not the end of the world, either. If you can afford the $/time, I'd consider repainting it; if not, let it ride.

2) Mildex. Intended for exterior use. Probably not the best idea for a grow room. Effects don't last very long, anyway... as long as you have a scrubbable surface, as discussed above, the mildew will have less of a place to get a hold; also, I sometimes do a bleach spray (3 to 1 water to bleach) in between cycles, making sure there are no plants in there, of course. And trust me on this: WEAR A RESPIRATOR! Seriously, the shit is nasty.

As a side note, I DO use exterior paint on my tables (or your floors, if that's your thing)... it is more mildew resistant and more durable, and I think as long as you give it plenty of time to dry, the "off gasses" aren't going to hurt anything.

Feel free to disagree, Clampie, not trying to hijack your thread!

hahaha, no problem FK, may I officially bestow upon you co-status on this thread....hopefully like our version of cartalk.

xcrispi,
I agree with everything FK wrote. It is ultimately more effective to clean between grows (or when you can) with bleach. If you still can't control mildew, and it's a problem, there are probably deeper environmental problems in the room/space, and mildex probably won't help much more...

Another option is to use Kitchen/Bath paint, which has better resistance to mildew, but it is not flat..

It's also more expensive. I'll go into that in another post...

FK

Think I fucked myself as far as reflectivity using eggshell ? And are mildex etc... paint additives worhwhile / really help or not ?


you definitely haven't fucked yourself. see next post of mine...
and thanks about the light meter! great idea... I'll have to try that soon. I just got one with a 35mm camera I bought. Better yet, I should bring one to my next interior painting bid! haha. smoke and mirrors with the richer customers... I can hear FK laughing at that one...

 

[clampie]

cost/effectiveness/benefits...

cost/effectiveness/benefits...

FK and I have been discussing a number of different paints, and I thought I should write a bit about different options, and the various things to consider...

Bottom Line: White paint. as flat as possible. More durable where needed.

Although FinestKind and I are in agreement that the best option is matte white interior paint for the walls/ceiling/trim, if you have a gallon of Ceiling White in your basement, and it's still good, USE IT. I have used both, and they both work great. The difference is I "wipe" the ceiling paint with a bleach solution and sponge, and the matte can be scrubbed a bit more. I'm using Benjamin Moore Floor & Patio for both my floors, and my tables. It is epoxy-reinforced, and the lustre is "Pearl" (not flat/matte..). However, if I had a gallon of exterior white in the basement, I would've used that instead to save money, since I already had it. It's all still white, after all...getting the picture?
If you are converting a room, and the walls are already a flat white USE THEM AS IS. Why not? -OR- If you have a ton of time on your hands, and don't care about the cost, here's my recipe for the most OCD growroom paintjob:

(following all the other instructions listed earlier...)
Primer: Kilz Premium or Benjamin Moore FreshStart
Ceiling/Walls/Trim: Benjamin Moore Regal Matte White ( NOTE: if you want to go all out for safety, maybe use Benjamin Moore's Super Spec Flame-Retardant Flat White, and then tell me how it is!!)
Floor/Tables/Shelves: Benjamin Moore Floor & Patio epoxy-reinforced (for surfaces that need more durable). *this paint does not come in flat/matte...

***make sure the caulk is paintable acrylic/latex, and seal your tables with Bathroom silicon caulk.
***lightly sand between coats with 300grit paper to get the smoothest finish.
***paint everything. if you can, spray paint anything showing. use a spray can of primer (metal if appropriate). With each white surface, you save more lumens. seriously. If everything in sight is white, you'll never have seen a room so bright... (hehe)

Personally, I didn't go that far. one of my ballasts is white, and two are green. My CO2 tanks aren't white and I didn't paint the legs of my tables. I did, however, paint the undersides of them...
I also didn't paint the light rail and mover (I don't think I would recommend it..). I also have a little chair and table with a radio in there, and they are not white. I also left all my ducting silver. In fact, in my first room, I had a bunch of ceiling white, and I used it on everything, including the floor!! haha.. Guess what, over two years later it is dirty, but still clinging to the Advantex (which I primed).
Like I said, varying degrees of cost/benefit/OCD...

Also, some recommend Kitchen & Bath paint, due to moisture exposure/mildew resistance, for a growroom, I do not... In my opinion and experience, you are better off making sure you bleach your walls between grows (it takes very little time), and benefiting from the increased diffusion of flat/matte (K&B is a higher gloss). To be really lazy/efficient (depending on your view), get a pump sprayer, and spray down everything with a light bleach solution in a fine mist, and then let the place air out. That won't get stains off the walls like wiping down, but it will kill everything..

I agree with FK: ALWAYS WEAR GLOVES AND A RESPIRATOR AROUND BLEACH!!!

Anything I've forgotten?

 

[Bunz]

Sweet, cant wait to see some pics. I may take down the Panda Plastic once i dry wall the entire room. The wall in this pic is cement and will probably get around to surfacing it and painting. Good Luck Man!

Not necessary to drywall over the cement wall. Apply Drylok to the cement wall (it waterproofs the wall), let dry and apply your normal paint.

 

[FinestKind]

Not necessary to drywall over the cement wall. Apply Drylok to the cement wall (it waterproofs the wall), let dry and apply your normal paint.

Yes, Drylok is a must if you have walls that "sweat", (or even leak, for that matter) as it is a kick-ass waterproofer (you can even use it on swimming pools)... however, my foundation doesn't sweat- I just primed it with a latex primer and painted over it... 4 years ago, and it's still just fine.

FK

 

[humble1]

I have about 2400 sq feet to cover including a concrete floor. I am thinking about Kilz premium or Kilz complete (oil based) with flat or matte white over it all. My question is, considering I cannot find a place that stocks 5 gals of the Kilz oil based, which primer should I go for? Also how long before I can stick my plants and tables in there without off-gassing/VOC issues? I've got 2x 14" fans sucking air out of the room and I can hang the lights as soon as the paint/prime is done if that will speed things up. Thanks a bunch!

 

[clampie]

Fresh Start and Latex Matte White Topcoat...

Fresh Start and Latex Matte White Topcoat...

I have about 2400 sq feet to cover including a concrete floor. I am thinking about Kilz premium or Kilz complete (oil based) with flat or matte white over it all. My question is, considering I cannot find a place that stocks 5 gals of the Kilz oil based, which primer should I go for? Also how long before I can stick my plants and tables in there without off-gassing/VOC issues? I've got 2x 14" fans sucking air out of the room and I can hang the lights as soon as the paint/prime is done if that will speed things up. Thanks a bunch!

Kilz Premium is very good, so is Benjamin Moore Fresh Start (both latex primers). I would recommend rolling out the place in Kilz Premium, and put a couple of coats of Matte white topcoat... or one of each if you want to speed things up, although it's nice to leave the primer overnight, and do both topcoats the next day. the following day hang your lights and go.

I wouldn't recommend the oil-based kilz, unless you have something you really need to cover up. A good latex primer, (like Benjamin Moore Fresh Start, or Kilz Premium), plus two top coats will last you for years and years, and be scrub-able for regular maintainance. If you do Kilz (oil), you'll still want a top-coat. If you only want to go over the place once, and forget about it, and ultimately don't care about the finish, then you still might as well use Latex and save your health and others (no need for a respirator, either). It will also be a matter of a day before you could have the plants in there, versus oil which could take days, or longer to off-gas. I can't imagine many indoor applications where I would choose Kilz Original (oil), unless there was a particularly greasy stained kitchen wall, or the effects of years and years of cigarette smoke, etc..

Also, did you check prices to make sure you are actually saving money by buying 5 gal containers? It doesn't always work out the be any cheaper, really.. Sometimes you can get a discount after buying ten gallons or so, however. Talk to the guy behind the counter at a good paint store (one where contractors go).


For the floor, I would look into the different concrete options that contain some kind of epoxy or urethane for durability. If you have moisture issues: drylock.

did that answer your questions, I hope?
best of luck!