Organic Fanatic Collective

[vonforne]

Ya, this mix is very similar to one I made myself for my Venomhead grow minus the glacial dust. I was just curious as to what they are marketing in the US now for a marked up price. LOL....we all know that we can make better soil than most of the company's marketing them.
I was using something else I would like to add....Rare Earth. I can´t remember the web address but it easy to find. I am trying to find it in the EU now but so far have had no luck. That is one of the things I miss about north America. But on the other hand I have been working with some all natural things like Alfalfa and Stinging Nettles more and have had good success. I do wish to get away from all the commercial things since I do have a boner for all of that marketing. Like the organic teas for example but I will not elaborate on that more right now. Commercial assholes. LOL.
Thanks for the post CC. I was just curious.

V

 

[canniption]

paramagnetic rock

paramagnetic rock

hello everyone,i just thought i'd post this info i got when i bought some of this the other day.about $5.00 a 5 lb. bag.i've read most of the ofc and did not see anything on this,so excuse if its been posted before.for what it's worth:

what is paramagnetic rock?physicists tell us that all matter has an electrical ability to be either attracted or repelled by a magnet.if matter is attracted to a magnet it is said to be paramagnetic.if the matter is repelled, it is said to be diamagnetic.there is big differences in degree of attraction and repultion among various materials.the paramagnetics of many elements and compounds can be found in physics handbooks.the actual paramagnetic values of rocks,metals,fertilizers,elements and soils can be measured with a magnetic meter(called the phil callahan soil meter)available from pike labs see (www.pikeagri.com)about $500.00.

while many materails are paramagnetic,it is the highly magnetic volcanic rock that is used as the soil conditioner and additive.to understand how it works,think of paramagnetic rock as a conduit for gathering electro-magnetic energy of the cosmos.in the soil this"gathering power" sets up a flow of energy from the paramagnetic material to other material that is diamagnetic(e.g. plant materail and compost).the higher the CGS value, the higher will be the flow of energy.the unit of measure is CGS(centimeter/grams/second),which is gauss/million,i.e. the measurement of the magnetic flux density.it is this flow of energy that is responsible for increased microbial development and the resulting plant growth.other paramagnetic materials include charred wood,ash,air,oxygen,water,calcium,potassium,sodium,and soil.as a rule the paramagnetic rock is not a provider of minerals for the plants.

the values of paramagnetic rock can be as high as 9,000 CGS or more.paramagnetic rock is sometimes refered to as lava sands.many soils have paramagnetic values that are less than 100,with some as low as 25.these will not be highly productive soils.
most organic molecules,e.g. plants,are diamagnetic.you can actually observe this.try transplanting very tiny carrot plants,with hair like roots.as you stick the carrot root into a small hole in the soil,the carrot root actually bends as if attracted to the soil(which is exactly what is taking place).

soils with high organic matter and high biological activity are usually higher in paramagnetic values.paramagnetic values can also be increased by correcting the calcium/magnesium ratio to the ideal 7:1 ratio and raising the oxygen levels in the soil.all the systems work together.the higher the organic matter in the soil, and the accompanying biological activity, the more effective will be the addition of paramagnetic rock.the following soil paramagnetic readings can serve as a guide:
0-100 = not good soil
100-300 = good soil
300-700 = very good soil
700-1,200 = excellent soil

the value of paramagnetic rock:the most important point about paramagnetism is that it contributes to plant growth.dr. phil callahan,the guru in this disipline,says unequivocally,that paramagnetisim is required for plant growth.he and others list the values of high paramagnetic soils as increased water retention,increased microbial stimulation,improved nutrient utilization,and something refered to as increased light energy.other benefits in the soil include increased seed germination and flowering,improved insect resistance,increased drought and frost hardiness,and more earthworms in the soil.it has also been shown to assist in overcoming the effects of toxins(atrazine)in the soil.paramagnetic rock can also be beneficial when added to compost piles.it increaces the biological activity,which in turn speeds up the rates of decomposition.phil callahan,in his book "Paramagnatism",writes about the great healing places in the world as being highly paramagnetic.likewise there are interesting facts connecting paramagnetism to round towers in ireland,as well as at indian mounds and the pyramids.

rates of application and placementaramagnetic rock of high quality has a CGS of 9,000+.the rate of application is dependent on the CGS values of paramagnetic rock and the soil to which it is to be applied.for my garden,my goal is to get the paramagnetic value in the 300-700(very good)range.i have good soil,and have increased the organic matter content to about 4%,but before adding any paramagnetic rock,it falls in the 80-100 CGS range.i did some testing,and by thoroughly mixing paramagnetic rock(with a CGS of 9,000)to an 8 inch depth,with rates of 1/4 pound,1/2 pound,and 1 pound per square feet,i could raise the CGS values of my garden soil to 250,475,and 565 repectively.a cup of paramagnetic rock weighs about half a pound.i have tested many garden soils in the area,and most are below 100,and some as low as 25.i have now applied 1 pound per square foot over my entire garden.this may seem like a very high rate.but remember that the magnetic,energy-collecting value remains in place for centuries.

preliminary testing of paramagetic rock in my garden show increased growth of newly set out strawberry plants,and slightly higher brix readings(0.5)for tomatoes.be aware that the effect will likely increase with time.the likely first reaction in the soil is to increase the microbial activity,which in turn will release minerals.paramagnetic rock is not a subsitute for minerals,and will likely not fully correct soils that are serious deficient or out of balance in minerals.however,as the soil improves,the paramagnetic rock will enhance plant growth and fruit production.

for gardens and other areas that can be worked,mix the paramagnetic rock into the top 6-8 inches of soil.the soil does not need to be roto-tilled.you can do the mixing with a garden fork.for areas where plants are already established,like lawns and trees,simply spread it on the surface.over time,the earthworms will move it down into the soil where it is most beneficial.by adding compost and mulch,you can increase the earthworm activity and speed up the incorparation process.

references:
Phillip Callahan. 1995. Paramagnetism - Rediscovering Natures Secret Force of Nature 128 pgs.See(www.acresusa.com)

Graeme Sait. 2003. Nutrition Rules 308 pgs.See(www.acresusa.com)

Phillip Callahan and others.Paramagnetism Roundtable-State of the Art.Tape from 2001 Acres U.S.A. Conference.See(www.acresusa.com)

i've incorparated this into my mix,i'll report any differences in the future.it's cheap enough to try anyway.can't hurt i guess.see ya.

 

[ixnay007]

Can they really prove that it's the magnetic effect of the rock instead of the fact that it's a volcanic rock and probably contributes quite a few useful trace minerals?

I always look at magnetics in the health field with a big handful of rock salt close at hand.

 

[MrFista]

Sounds like Terra Preta's benefits, but a rock doing it instead. Increased water retention, microbial activity, disease and pest resistance among other things mentioned match my experience of Terra Preta.

For myself I prefer sequestering carbon while gaining the mentioned garden benefits. Perhaps the 'secret' of Terra Preta is paramagnetism....

Personally I doubt it. It's the bacterial housing it provides, and then add the pottery for silica to mineralise and conditions for a sulfur cycle plus additional bacterial housing...

The attraction of organics to minerals in soils is mostly due to Van Der Waals forces, brownian motion, electrostatic interaction and random chance. Never heard it was paramagnetics before.

You can use any porous rock effectively in your garden if you innoculate it in your compost first then put it in the garden. It will be teeming with life.

Don't get me wrong I think you've brought great information to the table, just question the 'paramagnetism' bit of it.

Did you know they've found a bacteria in Japan that makes phosphate from pumice sand. I'd like to see that stuff in a bottle.

 

[canniption]

Can they really prove that it's the magnetic effect of the rock instead of the fact that it's a volcanic rock and probably contributes quite a few useful trace minerals?

"as a rule the paramagnetic rock is not a provider of minerals for the plants."

Perhaps the 'secret' of Terra Preta is paramagnetism....

"remember that the magnetic,energy-collecting value remains in place for centuries."

i was thinking the same.perhaps one of the reasons for Terra Pretes' longevity?

 

[vonforne]

Hey Vman, long time no see, I hope you and your family are well.

Suby

Damn, I missed this and caught it upon catching up on some reading. Ya, me and the family are doing good and how about yours. I bet they are growing like little organic flowers now.

Just when I thought that this thread could not find any new subjects........here it is.

Hats off to all who contribute here. I have missed alot of them in discussion but have kept up on reading from time to time.

Great job everyone and keep that light burning for all of us organic warriors.

V-man

 

[Dignan]

Originally Posted by Dignan
I'm not sold on the idea that powdered dolomite lime is better than prilled/pelletized. I know too many people who grow organically and always use prilled with stellar results. Without having a laboratory to test the theories, I have to go on the gardens I see others growing and I see people who know organics inside and out using both powdered and prilled.

It's usually just a matter of what is immediately available at your local store, but I know an organics guy who swears by prilled dolo over powdered. His logic: bacteria prefer a slightly lower pH than fungi (6.0-ish compared to 7.0-ish). Not having the entire root mass all at the same pH allows for various "pockets" of many types of bacteria and fungi, each of which will congregate in the pockets/zones where they are most comfortable.

I can't vouch for that theory, but I do tend to believe that perfect results can be had with either powdered dolomite lime or prilled.

Thats a good theory worthy of a test. I might have to do that. I have both at the moment. I will be trying some different things soon side by side and it might be one of them.

thanks for that Dignan.

V

Von-

Did you ever get around to this?

Dig

 

[vonforne]

Von-

Did you ever get around to this?

Dig

Actually Dig I made that international move and I will not be active for another couple of weeks. I do still plan on doing it. Everytime I see the PH and powdered vs. Pellet thing I think of that post. I have some powdered lime sitting that I have been using on the compost pile with nettles and things in it. I will have to order some because the place where I live I have not found pellets yet. I no longer live in the world of Walmart and Home Dept but I believe I can obtain some in the next couple of weeks and make that run. Thanks for the heads up Dig.

V

 

[Dignan]

Lemme know if you need some prilled dolo lime sent to you. That's all I use so I usually have some on-hand.

I finally found a couple sources for powdered locally though, so next time I'll pick up some powdered and see if I notice the difference.

Dig

 

[tmpILL]

blessings all!
just joined ic after a while being a quiet observer. this is definitely my fave thread being an avid organic gardner. ive got a question that somtimes can turn into a pandoras box but id love to see what the hive thinks about it so ill throw it out there...but with one qualifier: this should not turn into an argument about flushing in the final weeks of flowering, thats a whole other thread.

now without further ado...

has anyone used fruit juice, honey or any other fructose sources as an amendment to the water in the final weeks of flowering?

a very good friend suggested that the plants can take up the sugar immediately and use it to thicken buds, etc when fed as a water replacement.

im planning on making five gallons of 'sweet' tea in a day or so as my ladies are in the final stages. here's my recipe:

in a five gallon bucket:
3 gallons organic juice
2 gallons water
1 cup molasses
1 cup honey
1 cup agave syrup

im gonna bubble it for a day and use it to feed for the last ten days to two weeks.

looking forward to getting knowledge dropped, so come on my family pick it all apart.

onLove,
tmpILL

 

[vonforne]

blessings all!
just joined ic after a while being a quiet observer. this is definitely my fave thread being an avid organic gardner. ive got a question that somtimes can turn into a pandoras box but id love to see what the hive thinks about it so ill throw it out there...but with one qualifier: this should not turn into an argument about flushing in the final weeks of flowering, thats a whole other thread.

now without further ado...

has anyone used fruit juice, honey or any other fructose sources as an amendment to the water in the final weeks of flowering?

a very good friend suggested that the plants can take up the sugar immediately and use it to thicken buds, etc when fed as a water replacement.

im planning on making five gallons of 'sweet' tea in a day or so as my ladies are in the final stages. here's my recipe:

in a five gallon bucket:
3 gallons organic juice
2 gallons water
1 cup molasses
1 cup honey
1 cup agave syrup

im gonna bubble it for a day and use it to feed for the last ten days to two weeks.

looking forward to getting knowledge dropped, so come on my family pick it all apart.

onLove,
tmpILL

First off......Welcome.

Now....Wow that is a lot of sugar in one 5 gallon bucket. You are attempting to sweeten the buds with that....right. I use molasses, sugar cane (raw) and just about anything else I can get my hands on also. I have used the agave from the health food store also BUT I use it to feed the bacteria that digest the organic materials with in the tea solution.
1 cup = 236.3 ml.....I believe. Generally I use 1 tsp (5ml) per gallon or sometimes 1 tbs (15ml) per gallon. Depending on what type of product I am using.

I do have one question.....do you allow the fruit juice to fermant before adding to the tea and if so how long?
What type of results do you get or has there been a noticable change in the soil substrate from this amount of sugar.
What dilution rate do you use if any? and what amounts do you use to what size container is the substrate in and what is the substrate composed of?

Again Welcome to the OFC and I am sure there will be some further input for you.


V

 

[MrFista]

I have diluted cane sugar and molasses directly into water and applied it when I was too busy for teas. The plants loved it.

The sweetening affect works. I do not know the limit for sugar products in soil and would hate to kill everything so I stuck to a tablespoon of each in 5 gallons with good effects.

 

[tmpILL]

First off......Welcome.

Now....Wow that is a lot of sugar in one 5 gallon bucket. You are attempting to sweeten the buds with that....right. I use molasses, sugar cane (raw) and just about anything else I can get my hands on also. I have used the agave from the health food store also BUT I use it to feed the bacteria that digest the organic materials with in the tea solution.
1 cup = 236.3 ml.....I believe. Generally I use 1 tsp (5ml) per gallon or sometimes 1 tbs (15ml) per gallon. Depending on what type of product I am using.

I do have one question.....do you allow the fruit juice to fermant before adding to the tea and if so how long?
What type of results do you get or has there been a noticable change in the soil substrate from this amount of sugar.
What dilution rate do you use if any? and what amounts do you use to what size container is the substrate in and what is the substrate composed of?

Again Welcome to the OFC and I am sure there will be some further input for you.


V

thanks for your insight, i neglected to mention that i've not done this before, so that recipe is what i'm planning on this week.

i do know that the organisms in the soil LOVE sugar but i've also heard that plants have the ability to take up simple sugars through the root system...i'm not sure if that's true or not but with my understanding of ochem and the system roots use to take up molecules it seems like it would work. so, i'm willing to attempt this, however, it seems like people are using very diluted setups...i might need to do a little side by side comparison of a straight juice and agave/honey/molasses mix and a diluted version.

the fermentation is an interesting thought as well. i thought about just leaving it out for a 24 hour period with a bubbler which would mostly just mix and hopefully prevent fermentation...i remember something about alcohol being very hard on roots.

this all really interesting, i'm loving the new ideas.

respect!

 

[MrFista]

The sweetening effect on your buds is debatable. Some say it's horse manure (good ferts) and nothing more. I say it works. I've had the same strain for years and they never smelled or tasted so sweet as when I started using golden syrup and raw cane sugar. (all I had at the time).

I use blackstrap unsulfured molasses now and the growth is better than with golden syrup but I've yet to get to flower to see how the taste and smell goes with blackstrap, the old hands here swear by it and they've not steered me wrong yet.


Yeast.

I've been reading up on yeast in the stomach that competes with bacteria very handily, and not to good effect for humans. I think yeast could compete in soil handily too given the right conditions, whatever they are...

If you are going for a fermented product it might be wise to be wary of using yeast.

Would be very interested if CT Guy or Tim W have done any experiments and microscopy involving fermented teas and/or yeast.

 

[jaykush]

a very good friend suggested that the plants can take up the sugar immediately and use it to thicken buds, etc when fed as a water replacement.

first off, no. sugar will NOT "thicken your buds up" directly. in nature plants secrete there own sugars to feed the microbes and dont even need us. small amounts added benefit and slightly increase microbial population and a few other beneficial side effects.

im planning on making five gallons of 'sweet' tea in a day or so as my ladies are in the final stages. here's my recipe:

in a five gallon bucket:
3 gallons organic juice
2 gallons water
1 cup molasses
1 cup honey
1 cup agave syrup

im gonna bubble it for a day and use it to feed for the last ten days to two weeks.

secondly theres multiple things wrong in there.
-orange juice = citric acid too much = bad (rough estimate ph level of orange juice 3.30 - 4.19) 3 gallons is insane wow. just now read that. wow.....
-too much molasses, less is more your bacteria will grow too fast and eat up all the oxygen and tea will become anaerobic.
-honey in large amounts is antibacterial

"im gonna bubble it for a day and use it to feed for the last ten days to two weeks."

does that mean your going to brew it for one day then use it for the next few weeks?

don't mean to burst your bubble or anything. but a little bit will go a long way.

 

[tmpILL]

sweet teas (cont.)

sweet teas (cont.)

first off, no. sugar will NOT "thicken your buds up" directly. in nature plants secrete there own sugars to feed the microbes and dont even need us. small amounts added benefit and slightly increase microbial population and a few other beneficial side effects.

yeah, this is my understanding...its like giving a lot of sugar to your kids. its a good source of quick energy but too much will run them down...now in an indoor environment amping up the microbes right at the end of the soil's run and wearing them out might not be such a bad thing if you get an added benefit to the plants.

secondly theres multiple things wrong in there.
-orange juice = citric acid too much = bad (rough estimate ph level of orange juice 3.30 - 4.19) 3 gallons is insane wow. just now read that. wow.....
-too much molasses, less is more your bacteria will grow too fast and eat up all the oxygen and tea will become anaerobic.
-honey in large amounts is antibacterial

not sure where orange juice came from...i'm aware of its acidic properties and have no plans on using it as my organic juice source. i've collected berry juices and some papaya nectar i believe (whatever was on sale at the store).

as before it definitely sounds like backing off the whole mix will help this tea out.

i wasn't aware of that about honey but it makes sense in its use in human home remedies.

"im gonna bubble it for a day and use it to feed for the last ten days to two weeks."

does that mean your going to brew it for one day then use it for the next few weeks?

don't mean to burst your bubble or anything. but a little bit will go a long way.

no bubbles burst here, as i've said, i don't know much about this sugar thing as it was just suggested to me. lots of good info in here. the original info was that he just tended to add juice and some molasses and maybe some agave instead of just a plain old water flush at the end of flowering. i assumed that this meant using straight juice instead of water.

as a recap: less is definitely more when it comes to making a "sweet" tea. so, a revised recipe then would look something like this???:

1/2 quart juice per gallon
1 TBSp molasses per gallon
1 TBSp agave syrup per gallon

bubble the mixture overnight and feed the next day.

I use blackstrap unsulfured molasses now and the growth is better than with golden syrup but I've yet to get to flower to see how the taste and smell goes with blackstrap, the old hands here swear by it and they've not steered me wrong yet.

MrFista this is exactly my situation. i'm really excited to try to dial this in and get even more aroma and flavor from my buds.

hope everyone enjoyed their sunday...for me it was a nice lazy day (too hot to really get any "real" work done) and the first for me in a loooong time. peace ya'll!

 

[jaykush]

yeah, this is my understanding...its like giving a lot of sugar to your kids. its a good source of quick energy but too much will run them down...now in an indoor environment amping up the microbes right at the end of the soil's run and wearing them out might not be such a bad thing if you get an added benefit to the plants.

yea if you put it that way itl go like this, 5 million kids, all have sugar rush and they destroy your house lol. in an indoor environment your looking to create a quality soil full of beneficial organisms, key word beneficial. there are baddies.

no bubbles burst here, as i've said, i don't know much about this sugar thing as it was just suggested to me. lots of good info in here. the original info was that he just tended to add juice and some molasses and maybe some agave instead of just a plain old water flush at the end of flowering. i assumed that this meant using straight juice instead of water.

as a recap: less is definitely more when it comes to making a "sweet" tea. so, a revised recipe then would look something like this???:

1/2 quart juice per gallon
1 TBSp molasses per gallon
1 TBSp agave syrup per gallon

bubble the mixture overnight and feed the next day.

still thats a bit overdone imo. you can always add more later if it wasent enough, cant take back adding too much. try starting off at two teaspoons per gallon and see where that gets you.

i hear you on the hot day, lots of bowls and some cold beer is the only treatment.

 

[vonforne]

i wasn't aware of that about honey but it makes sense in its use in human home remedies.

Honey is also used for cloning and the antibacterial effect helps prevent fungi and mold. I believe JK uses this for cloning but do not quote me on that one.

I have also revised my use of sugar products to lower amounts. It does make the bacteria breed faster as JK has stated. I would think that if you would wish to increase the bacteria in a lesser amount of time that could be a benefit.

V

 

[tmpILL]

Honey is also used for cloning and the antibacterial effect helps prevent fungi and mold. I believe JK uses this for cloning but do not quote me on that one.

I have also revised my use of sugar products to lower amounts. It does make the bacteria breed faster as JK has stated. I would think that if you would wish to increase the bacteria in a lesser amount of time that could be a benefit.

vonforne we meet again!

honey seem like a little miracle, just like bees...i'm planning on starting a couple of small apiaries in my backyard next year (i missed the season this year)...now i know what i'll do with some of that honey...straight to the ladies.

any more info on honey out in the nethers of this forum that anyone knows about?

yea if you put it that way itl go like this, 5 million kids, all have sugar rush and they destroy your house lol. in an indoor environment your looking to create a quality soil full of beneficial organisms, key word beneficial. there are baddies.

ha ha ha! gotcha...thinking about this more, it does seem like it would get out of hand before you could reap the benefits. duly noted....

so now i'm looking at:

2 TBSp organic juice / gal.
1 TBSp agave syrup / gal.
1 TBsp blackstrap molasses / gal.

i think i will still bubble this shortly to get a good mix going...no fermentation.

to all who've contributed info to this past discussion, my many thanks, i was headed towards a possible disaster with my original recipe and your guidance has avoided that...i really appreciate the knowledge. what a blessing to be approved to the forum just in the nic of time.

peace!

 

[Bennythejet]

this threads the shit