Ocean Forest soil, which fertilizer

[DRKN_MNKY420]

Hey Monger, For what it's worth, I have only heard good things about H&G from Holland. I unfortunately can not give you a recommendation on the specific usage details of H&G, but I am sure someone will help you out. I can only recommend using the search feature to see if their are any threads dedicated to it already and maybe google the product to see if they have a website w/ specific feeding instructions.

GOOD LUCK!

 

[TheMonger]

anyone have any advice about EC? I dont even know what it is, and the fert says regulating it is important.

 

[Iron_Lion]

well i will show you a pic of my fert regament but also consider picking up some humbolts purple maxx snow and gravity which are added only 3-4 weeks before harvest.


this is my set up as far as ferts go GL

Mr.p

Hey Mrpiston38 I was wondering where you got that bag of open seseme? I'd love to try it but dont need a full 1LB jar.

 

[Mrpiston38]

I got it form my local hydro shop as a sample but as far as the house/garden I have there coco's full line and I havent used it either but on my next 6 I will be so I can be a guinie pig of sorts. witch btw should be poping any day now
here is a pic of what i am going to be using

was all giving to me as a demo from the house/garden rep that was at the hydro shop
and my new seed table

 

[Rellikbuzz]

anyone have any advice about EC? I dont even know what it is, and the fert says regulating it is important.

Sorry for the delay in responding, Monger. I don't get over here to the Mag as much as I used to back in the day.

Right then. EC stands for (Electrical Conductivity). Essentially, Electrical Conductivity (or EC) is the measure of heavy metals (which conduct electricity) in a given nutrient solution which indicates the strength of your nutrient solution. A chemically based nutrients, and to an extent organic nutes, all have heavy metals in their content and makeup. These heavy metals are registered on the EC scale. The higher the number, the more heavy metals are present in the mix and the stronger the nutrient mix is. The typical range for EC from 0.0-2.5 or so. In order to test the EC of your nutrient solution, you need an EC meter. Much like a pH meter but for measuring EC.

EC is a more accurate measure of a nutrient solution than PPM (parts per million) is and is therefore the best way to test. However, when you are testing solutions with very little nutrients in it, PPM is going to be a better indicator as a weak solution might not even register on an EC meter.

Here is an conversion chart for those that are more familiar talking in terms of PPM versus EC. This should help you get an idea of how EC relates to PPM.






Now, having said all that, using an EC meter to measure an ORGANIC-BASED nutrient mix is virtually useless as organic nutrients do not contain heavy metals in the same amounts as synthetic/chemical fertilizers do. You can measure a strong organic nutrient mix and it will show a low EC. You can flat out smoke your plants by trying to measure the strength of an organic nutrient mix with an EC meter. You would be far wiser to use a PPM meter as it will be much closer to accurate but still will misread organic mixes.

Hope that explains things a bit for ya, Monger. Good luck!

Oh, and by the way, House and Garden nutrients ROCK! They are made by the same chemist that developed the Canna nutrient line only the H&G line is supposed to be the Canna line perfected. You won't be disappointed in them. For more info on House and Garden, you can check out their website. Here's the link.

http://www.house-garden.us/



RB

 

[TheMonger]

I do use the organic version of the House and Garden 1 component nut. I also use distilled water, but I was thinking of switching to reverse osmosis water.......I dont have an EC meter or a ppm meter, but is there any way of guesstimating it with using certain water, certain amounts of epson salt, and nuts?

 

[Barn Owl]

My personal opinion is that Ocean Forest soil is not needed and causes more problems than it is worth. It is very expensive, will burn young plants and can cause nute lockout.

 

[Mrpiston38]

i dont beilve that one bit i have cuased more problems to my plants then my soil ever has...... ffof is wonderfull and its not the expincive.

 

[Chronicsss]

My personal opinion is that Ocean Forest soil is not needed and causes more problems than it is worth. It is very expensive, will burn young plants and can cause nute lockout.

Blasphamey! Only $10 on the west coast, same cost as anything else. That good Lowes stuff isnt even much cheaper. True its probably not worth it if you are forced to pay more than $15 for it.

Most people have good experience starting fresh clones or seedlings in FFOF. Personally I've never burned and certainly never ever have I had a ph lockout with FFOF. Perhaps there was something else wrong. Maybe the clones werent fully rooted before you put them in the soil? Maybe even a bad batch of soil... but i doubt that. Point is this stuff is worth it.

 

[Chronicsss]

I will be purchasing some pbp bloom soon, anything else you would recommend picking up besides that? I will be slowly moving the babies over the next couple of waterings...

Botanicare is a good line of nutes but alot of what they sell is quite unecessary. Do not buy any Cal Mag + or Sweet. Go to a feed store and buy some blackstrap mollasses by the gallon. Make sure its Blackstrap. It has enough manganese, magnesium, iron, and calcium in it that you shouldnt need the cal mag +. (especially if you have hard water). It also has plenty of sugar to take the place of sweet in late flower. Mix 1tblsp/g. Can be used with every feeding.

Get the PBP Bloom for soil not the original. The original has way too much nitrogen in it for soil in late bloom. Also get the PBP grow if you dont have it yet for veg/early flower.

Welcome Monger,
You need a good source of micronutes. Liquid Karma, Tiger Bloom, there are others, but those are the ones that everyone uses. I use the LK and I love it, Tiger and LK are organic.

DRKN_MNKY420

First off TigerBloom most certainly is not organic. Secondly TB (2-8-4) is a potent fertilizer. Liquid Karma (.1-.1-.5) is not a fertilizer its an additive.

Liquid karma is a great all around additive to be used throughout the grow, veg and bloom. I love the stuff and buy it by the gallon. It allows the plant to take more stress, use more ferts, and just grow healthier and lusher. Simply put, my plants are just healthier and happier when they've had their LK. It is quite expensive though...

i went to the store today and got this stuff called house and garden bio 1-component aarde nutrient (NPK 4-4-9). The guy was suggesting that over liquid karma and pbp bloom with an additive called Bud-xl bloom stimulator. It costs about the same and he said it would work, but I wanted to check you the experts before I opened the bottle. What do you guys think about H&G from holland?

The nuts talk about EC too, what does that mean and how can you adjust it?

I've never heard of that stuff but as a rule I dont listen to salesmen as they always have their own very obvious agenda. Maybe he was just told to push that stuff because the owner makes more profit from it... You dont know. In anycase ive never heard the stuff so I would certainly still recommend the LK + PBP for soil.

You do not have to worry about EC one bit in soil. EC becomes important in hydro setups with reservoirs. You should also not have to worry about the ph, especially if you dress them with dolomite lime.

In summary I recommend:

PBP grow
PBP bloom for soil
Liquid Karma
blackstrap molasses (for late bloom + can be used for deficiencies throughout grow)
a bag of Dolomite lime so you dont have to worry about ph or even need a ph meter.

Anything more isnt realy necessary for a good healthy harvest so imo save your money this lineup is plenty for you needs especially for a new grower.

 

[Rellikbuzz]

You should also not have to worry about the ph, especially if you dress them with dolomite lime.

I would respectfully disagree with you on this one, bro. Especially when Ocean Forest is the medium but it's true of any pre-ferted soil. Unless you flush the shit out of the soil regularly, you WILL get pH drop as salts buildup in the soil (even with Dolomite Lime) and you WILL get "clawfoot" leaf ends from Nitrogen toxicity from all the N in the soil coupled with the N in the nutes.

This is why I made the change to Coco Coir and I'll NEVER go back. Simply no comparison. The growth rate is twice that of soil and you can monitor EXACTLY what food the plants receive through your nutrient program. In soil, you can never be sure how much food the plants are absorbing at any one time. Coco RULES!

Oh, and there's no hype or lack of bang when it comes to House and Garden nutrients. Texas Kid (many of you remember him, right? ) and Nandro have been running the House and Garden line for the last couple of months. Now, many of you may remember that TK used NOTHING but Botanicare for years! Let me tell ya, he's singing a new tune now. He's loving the ease of the product line and the fact that at every stage of growth the plants have been more lush, healthy, disease and pest resistant than he's ever seen before! Also, the nute mix pH's right in the sweet range. No problems! The stuff is outstanding from all reports I've had. Don't think there's much of a sales pitch there EXCEPT those evangelical growers that are using the stuff. Can't buy that type of advertising, my friend.


RB


RB

 

[Chronicsss]

Cal/Mag is a necessary part of any good nutrient regime for cannabis.

RB

You realy think so? I've been using hard water + blackstrap molasses and I havent had any deficiencies lately. Also if you really needed more magnesium you could always use epsom salt couldnt you? Or giving it alot of the blackstrap shouldnt hurt anything and still be cheaper I think.

 

[Rellikbuzz]

You realy think so? I've been using hard water + blackstrap molasses and I havent had any deficiencies lately. Also if you really needed more magnesium you could always use epsom salt couldnt you? Or giving it alot of the blackstrap shouldnt hurt anything and still be cheaper I think.

Depending on the strain (some strains require more than others), Cal/Mag is the best product to use, IMHO, as it's s considerably more concentrated and PURIFIED form of Magnesium as compared to pharmacuetical Epsom Salts. Epsom Salts carry Mag in a raw and unpurified form and will tend to skew your pH as well. Cal/Mag is not that expensive (12-15 bucks a quart) and will last a good long while. I used Epsoms myself but the plants responded more quickly and more positively to the Cal/Mag versus the Epsoms in my experiment.

Blackstrap Molasses is a great source of sugars with a Potassium blast and Sulphur for some micro-nutrients. However, it's sorely lacking in Mag in any substantial amount. This is why we ALWAYS use Cal/Mag in combination with Blackstrap during flower. The plants get the best of both in our gardens!


RB

 

[Chronicsss]

Good info Rellikbuzz. ty for the feedback even though its not my thread. I stand corrected.

 

[TheMonger]

Thanks Rellikbuzz and everyone else for your advice: it has been essential in my first set-up being a success. I just picked up some garden lime from home depot that has Mg, Ca, and calcium oxide. I spread about 2 cups over the top of the 3 gal buckets and gave it a slight water to help it penetrate a bit.

Regarding the occasional flush, when do you think I should give it a vigorous flush.....sometime soon, or wait till the last 2 weeks? I was thinking of possibly using one of the H & G products to help with the breakup of salts if it wasnt too pricey.

 

[Mrpiston38]

the only thing that will break up salts is a ph balanced water flush. the key is to flush ur pots with double the water amount then soil so if ur in half gal pots flush with 1 gal each. you can do it once a month or less depeding on how much/times you use ferts. but there are some who do it and some who dont. its a personal pref but i try to do it 2x a month since ffof like to build up salts. gl

Mr.P

 

[pinecone]

I would respectfully disagree with you on this one, bro. Especially when Ocean Forest is the medium but it's true of any pre-ferted soil. Unless you flush the shit out of the soil regularly, you WILL get pH drop as salts buildup in the soil (even with Dolomite Lime) and you WILL get "clawfoot" leaf ends from Nitrogen toxicity from all the N in the soil coupled with the N in the nutes.

I've used FFOF exclusively (amended with DM) and have never had a problem with pH drop, salt buildup, or nitrogen toxicity. When you use this type of soil you can get away with less much less added fertilizer.

Pine

 

[greenisgold]

I would respectfully disagree with you on this one, bro. Especially when Ocean Forest is the medium but it's true of any pre-ferted soil. Unless you flush the shit out of the soil regularly, you WILL get pH drop as salts buildup in the soil (even with Dolomite Lime) and you WILL get "clawfoot" leaf ends from Nitrogen toxicity from all the N in the soil coupled with the N in the nutes.

This is why I made the change to Coco Coir and I'll NEVER go back. Simply no comparison. The growth rate is twice that of soil and you can monitor EXACTLY what food the plants receive through your nutrient program. In soil, you can never be sure how much food the plants are absorbing at any one time. Coco RULES!

Oh, and there's no hype or lack of bang when it comes to House and Garden nutrients. Texas Kid (many of you remember him, right? ) and Nandro have been running the House and Garden line for the last couple of months. Now, many of you may remember that TK used NOTHING but Botanicare for years! Let me tell ya, he's singing a new tune now. He's loving the ease of the product line and the fact that at every stage of growth the plants have been more lush, healthy, disease and pest resistant than he's ever seen before! Also, the nute mix pH's right in the sweet range. No problems! The stuff is outstanding from all reports I've had. Don't think there's much of a sales pitch there EXCEPT those evangelical growers that are using the stuff. Can't buy that type of advertising, my friend.



RB


RB

I use FFOF and have outstanding harvests, but I have always wanted to give coco coir a try. Can you point me to a type that I can use? I see it comes in blocks and such. What is best and do you add anything to it?
Thanks

 

[Chronicsss]

The botanicare coco is good stuff and its cheap when you buy it in bales for $10. Whatever you buy, buy it compressed then break it up yourself by just adding water.

I'm flowering for the first time in Coco myself and I used to use only FFOF soil too. I love the lighter pots, makes caring for plants much easier. Not to mention the faster growth and quicker response from feedings. They also seem to be able to take higher doses of nutes and such and actually use it. I cant wait till my plants put on weight.

 

[TheMonger]

do you still use the same nuts as you would in Ocean forest? Sounds very intriguing for my next setup