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Not high but still DUI

billycw

Active member
Veteran
http://www.azcentral.com/opinions/articles/20130302not-high-but-still-dui.html


Not high but still DUI

By Ed Montini
The Republic
Sat Mar 2, 2013 2:42 PM
What if you could get a DUI in Arizona for having had a few drinks two weeks ago?

Crazy, right?

Except it’s happening. Not with alcohol, but with marijuana.

Arizona drivers are going to jail, paying big fines and losing their licenses after having gotten DUI citations when blood tests prove they were not high.

“It makes no sense,” said attorney Michael Alarid III, who is representing a man charged under current law. “But this is how prosecutors and the courts are interpreting the law. And the Legislature doesn’t appear to want to change it. So we’re hoping we can get the issue before the state Supreme Court.”

How could a person who is not high get busted for DUI?

It happens when science meets politics.

Blood tests now can detect two important chemical compounds in marijuana. One of them makes a person high and lasts for hours. The other is inactive but can linger in a person’s system for up to a month.

In Arizona, state law says if you have either of these compounds in your blood you are guilty of a DUI.

“As things stand a person from Arizona could go on a snowboarding trip to Colorado or Washington State, where marijuana is legal for recreational use,” Alarid said. “And then a month later he could be driving in Arizona, get stopped and be convicted of DUI.”

Not long ago, the state Court of Appeals upheld Arizona’s law, which says if any “metabolite” of a drug like marijuana is found in a person’s blood he is guilty of DUI. There are about a dozen states with the same standard.

Alarid got a lower court to dismiss the original charges against his client after it was shown that the marijuana chemicals found in his client’s blood were inactive. The appeals court overturned it.

In it’s ruling on the case (Arizona v. Shilgevorkyan) the Appeals Court said, “We determined that the legislative ban extends to all substances, whether capable of causing impairment or not.”

Apparently, there is no statute in Arizona outlawing impaired logic.

(And yes, I’m aware that my continued employment proves it.)

The case is being prosecuted by the Maricopa County Attorney’s office. I asked County Attorney Bill Montgomery if he believed it was appropriate to convict people for DUI when the only marijuana metabolite in their blood did not cause impairment.

He responded, “The Court of Appeals decision is unremarkable in light of consistent case law on the issue of proscribing driving with a prohibited drug or its metabolite in a driver’s system.”

Since that didn’t answer my question, I tried again, asking if Montgomery would favor amending state law to differentiate between metabolites that cause impairment and those that do not.

He responded, “No. We do not want to create an incentive to ‘game’ how long it takes for any given metabolite to leave a driver’s system. Nice try, Ed.”

It isn’t a game. It’s chemistry.

Some states at least try to acknowledge the science. In Washington, for example, a person is considered impaired if a blood test shows 5.0 nanograms of marijuana’s active ingredient. That level has been compared to a .08 limit for alcohol.

“An alcohol DUI in Arizona gets your license suspended for 90 days,” Alarid said. “After 30 days you can drive to work and school. On the other hand, a drug-related DUI, like marijuana, gets you the same fines and jail time but revokes your license for a year. That means a person who wasn’t impaired could be punished more harshly than someone who was.”

Alarid is hoping the Arizona Supreme Court will take his case.

“In addition to the fairness issue, this doesn’t seem right in a state where citizens passed a medical marijuana law,” Alarid said. “It really puts an unfair burden on those patients.”

The risk of getting busted for a DUI charge when they are not impaired might cause some medical marijuana patients not to use the drug, no matter how much it helps them.

Of course, it’s probably just a coincidence that the politicians who could revise the DUI statute hate the medical marijuana law. As does the county attorney.

Coincidence. Yeah, that must be it.
 

Marksman954

New member
I live in Phoenix and while I feel what in the heck until it is fully legal they will not listen to the people who vote Just let us have our freedom!
 

MIway

Registered User
Veteran
michigan has a zero tol stance as well. hope ur sc hears the case... its just nonsense.
 

stoned-trout

if it smells like fish
Veteran
its ok, but can I still buy guns from private dealers at the gun shows with no waiting period ...lol...I still like Arizona .. great car junkyards too...was there a year ago at a show...
 

MJPassion

Observer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
The 5ng limits in WA & CO are subjective as well.
9News Denver did an investigative report and foud that an ol granny that never consumed cannabis refused to even try n drive after she medicated. Her levels would not register on the field tests. Meanwhile, a young man who smokes heavily daily took the same tests. He obviously failed the 5ng limit but he also drove like a normal person, just slightly slower and more cautious like. He passed the driving test. There were other test subjects but these were the two extreme ends.

MJ related DUIs are absolute bull shit!
 
Sadly, in the distant past Ive drove drunk. Ive also drove right after getting high. I have no idea how I didnt kill myself or others while drunk. By the grace of god I guess. I would however throw my family in the car, smoke a little and take off without hesitation. I am a regular smoker and I think that makes a huge difference. Someone smoking for the first few times should relinquish the keys. Marijuana high is just not the same as being drunk.
 

ogrerun

Member
Just tryin to ruin as many peoples records as possible before it goes legal...as much money out of our pockets and into theirs as possible
 

paper thorn

Active member
Veteran
Well, the AZ Supreme court just ruled that LEO can no longer use the presence of metabolites of THC in a person's blood as proof of DUI.

Should stop the cops from ever drug testing folks. Especially MMJ patients. Fav thing of their's if they find out they stopped an MMJ cardholder. Test him in defiance of the mmj law knowing he would be positive.

link to story
 
Last edited:

RonSmooth

Member
Veteran
Driving high is irresponsible no mater how much you smoke. If it didn't affect your state of mind, you wouldn't smoke it.

I don't want some high school sophomore getting in the car after ripping a few bong hits, even if he swears hes fine. The same thing drunk people swear when someone tries to stop them from driving.

And Maricopa county = Joe Arpaio = people who watch fox news = anti-science = fill in the blank.
 

paper thorn

Active member
Veteran
Driving high is irresponsible no mater how much you smoke. If it didn't affect your state of mind, you wouldn't smoke it.

I don't want some high school sophomore getting in the car after ripping a few bong hits, even if he swears hes fine. The same thing drunk people swear when someone tries to stop them from driving.

And Maricopa county = Joe Arpaio = people who watch fox news = anti-science = fill in the blank.

Still, smoking a bowl does not make you drunk.

I'm as scared of the phx pd as i am of sheriff joe. regardless of politics.

Anyway the point is that the cops can't hassle MMJ cardholders about it anymore,(or anyone else for that matter. not even a 16 year old who they can't tel has been smoking either because he's not drunk.) because as the story points out, we don't have to be 'high' to test positive.
 

Sforza

Member
Veteran
Driving high is irresponsible no mater how much you smoke. If it didn't affect your state of mind, you wouldn't smoke it.

I don't want some high school sophomore getting in the car after ripping a few bong hits, even if he swears hes fine. The same thing drunk people swear when someone tries to stop them from driving.

And Maricopa county = Joe Arpaio = people who watch fox news = anti-science = fill in the blank.

Some tests have shown that people drive better while high on pot than when straight, when the driving better is defined as being able to complete a driving course in less time. When high on pot, people can typically do one thing better than when they are straight, but they do two things much worse.

http://norml.org/library/item/marijuana-and-driving-a-review-of-the-scientific-evidence

By the way, I consider efforts to shut down scientific debate on issues by citing consensus of opinion to be anti-science. The history of science is full of instances in which the science experts were all in agreement, until a maverick came along and proved that all the experts were wrong. It's called keeping an open mind.

http://amasci.com/weird/vindac.html
 

armedoldhippy

Well-known member
Veteran
everyone that ever got in a car with me preferred me to have a buzz. my wife, my children, everyone. why? because I am one of those type A personality SOBs that you do NOT want to see in your rear-view mirror. which is one of the main reasons that I still smoke at my age....well, that & I love the taste of killer green, LOL!
 

RonSmooth

Member
Veteran
everyone that ever got in a car with me preferred me to have a buzz. my wife, my children, everyone. why? because I am one of those type A personality SOBs that you do NOT want to see in your rear-view mirror. which is one of the main reasons that I still smoke at my age....well, that & I love the taste of killer green, LOL!



So you have to get high to control your road rage?

Sounds like your passengers only "prefer" the lesser of two evils. Have you ever considered just driving like less of an asshole? I bet they'd prefer that over all of the above.
 

Jhhnn

Active member
Veteran
I'm a little bit like armedoldhippie. Straight, I'm working the left lane, speeding a little like everybody else in the left lane should be, trying to hold my speed up to keep my travel time down. It's force of habit, of wanting to get there or needing to be there on time. Buzzed a little, not a lot, I'm content to just roll along with the crowd, for the most part, not fightin' it at all. I still pay attention, move over for merging traffic, try not to get stuck behind slow movers. I look out for my passengers' comfort in either case.
 

armedoldhippy

Well-known member
Veteran
So you have to get high to control your road rage?

Sounds like your passengers only "prefer" the lesser of two evils. Have you ever considered just driving like less of an asshole? I bet they'd prefer that over all of the above.

nope, no rage. just go too damn fast. smoking one stops that & lets me slow down & smell the flowers. just what part of "type A" personality do I need to explain to you? I'm unemployed at the moment; i'll type as slow as I need to so you can understand....have you ever considered typing like less of a moron? :laughing:
 

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