Noob using dyna gro and coco having problems

[darthcultivator]

Hello everyone I am new to ICmag, but have been reading on this forum and others as well for a few years now. please forgive me if i am out of line or violating any rules here. I did my best to read up before posting.

Anyways, i have 3 grows under my belt and have not really been happy with any so far. I started with amended soil and moved to coco coir and from pure blend pro to dyna gro largely because of the info shared by uncle ben and home brewer on various forums.

Whats going on is i am struggling to correct an issue of what appears to be an over watering issue. I have been battling this same problem for about 8 months now trying different things and developing theorys as to what the problem could be and following them up without a fix. This is my last resort to try to fix the issue before I pull the plug on this whole thing a quit. If there is anyone who can help, i would really appreciate it.

various info to help with diagnosis

nutrients: dyna gro foliage pro (veg) dyna gro bloom (flower) and protekt and 1ml/gal cal mag plus with 0ppm ro di water nothing else startijg from over all ppm of 300 ppm clones to about 500ppm veg and havent gone over 600ppm during flower

ph:5.8 using milwaukee mw802 ph meter

growing in a box that is 144cu ft with pleanty of air flow

using 11 vero 29 pendant leds (2700k) (diy) all on there own dimmers. I have seen plants grow like crazy under them before these problems arose.

medium: botanicare coco coir bricks preflushed in 2gal geo pots drain to waste

the strain in question is THC Bomb, but i have the same issue with all strains of the 4 i have on hand.

the problem that i have is this. the clones i start with root fine and start off growing great. i then transplant to the coco in 1gal geopots they grow very fast initially with roots coming out all over, but then they turn dark green like a N toxicity and then shortly after suddenly stop growing for no apparent reason. roots seem to die back and the new growth turns lime to yellow and then under leaves start slowly yellowing and dying and stems turn purple and become stiff and the plant basically continues to get worse and worse till it dies. this has happened to me in flower as well as veg. It has wiped out my mothers and reduced yields down to nearly nothing. Ive read and trued everything i can find or do, but nothing helps.

Let me know if you need anymore info to help with diagnosis. thanks everyone in advance.

 

[darthcultivator]

well right now, im leabing towards light stress. as a last resort, i dimmed each led down quite a bit and noticed they are bouncing back in just 2 days. fingers crossed.

 

[LostTribe]

Those look super nitrogen deficient and very very yellow to me. Are you allowing the coco to dry completely before re watering? What ph are you watering at should be 5.7-5.8. Are you root bound? If this started from the bottom of the plants and went upward you might be root bound. Size of pots? how long have they been in that size pot?

Overwatering coco can lead to these symptoms as well.

 

[darthcultivator]

Those look super nitrogen deficient and very very yellow to me. Are you allowing the coco to dry completely before re watering? What ph are you watering at should be 5.7-5.8. Are you root bound? If this started from the bottom of the plants and went upward you might be root bound. Size of pots? how long have they been in that size pot?

Overwatering coco can lead to these symptoms as well.

hi and thanks for the reply. i agree they do look deficient and show symptoms of over watering, but the nutrient (dyna gro foliage pro) has a very high concentration of N im feeding at 400ppm total ppm including 1ml/gal cal mag and 2ml/gall protekt which is well aerated and ph'ed to 5.8-6.0. as far as watering goes, ive tried various watering scedules including everyday waterings to waiting till they basically wilt from dehydration before watering and everywhere in between. i also try foliar feeding to try to help out but does very little. also these are 2gal geopots and they are not root bound. i had a close inspection of the root zone on one of them and there is plenty of room still and also no foul smells and all white roots. no signs of pythium ir overwatering at the root zone. my standard wateting schedule is when the coco goes from wet to moist or closer to dry but not completely dry.

 

[darthcultivator]

i forgot to point out also that the run off tests the same ph and also same ppm at every watering unless im using plain ro water.

 

[darthcultivator]

just an update incase anyone is tagging along. I just got my new ph calibration solution in the mail today and recalibrated my meter with it and then rechecked the nutrient water i have been using which previously read 5.8 now read 4.7. So lesson learned I will always be sure to keep fresh uncontaminated reference solution on hand and check it very regularly. I will post updated pics after i get the ph restablized and the plants start looking better.

 

[shredGnar]

They are deficient because they are locking out nutes, not because you're not feeding them enough, is my guess.

What are the temps in your room? What size light and how far away is it from the plants?

Also what humidity

 

[chronosync]

Yea man 4.7 is too low to be healthy.

About the watering issue. Keep it consistent. Dont worry about foliar feeding, keep temps and RH reasonable. VPD as close as possible. Water frequently and as your normal drying out cycle. I like to let them breathe a lot until i know the roots are good. After that its as much as i feel like. I feed every day. Dont worry about being rootbound, you said the roots look healthy, awesome. Its less of an issue in coco.

Nothing is being locked out its just the roots cant exchange with the medium efficiently in that ph range. Closer to 6 and the plant can uptake and exchange ions that it needs from the solution you give it.

Thats my understanding of it.

Follow basic ec for pot and you should be fine.

1 ec early veg
1.8 ec early bloom
Always work up to these values.

 

[chronosync]

Hanna

 

[robbiedublu]

Those look super nitrogen deficient and very very yellow to me. Are you allowing the coco to dry completely before re watering? What ph are you watering at should be 5.7-5.8. Are you root bound? If this started from the bottom of the plants and went upward you might be root bound. Size of pots? how long have they been in that size pot?

Overwatering coco can lead to these symptoms as well.

I don't believe that "root bound" is really an issue in coco as long as watering and feeding are dialed in. What do I base that on?

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=21634&pictureid=454777

The plant in this picture was cloned into and flowered in a beer cup of pure canna coco with canna nutes. Believe me, it was extremely root bound by the time it was chopped, with no ill effects.

 

[chronosync]

Also, never let coco go dry dry. I wont even flush without solution.

 

[EastCoast710]

nute def.. prolly under fed.. just feed everytime in coco.. its not like soil.. feed to run off 15-20% run off.. and you will be good man..

treat like soil when transplanting .. but once roots set in. you can feed as much as you like everyday.. or not.. I know people who use big pots of coco and water 1-2 times a week.. or run smaller pots big plants..and feed daily..

I'm at end of flower right now. flushing and I gotta every single day.. since like a few weeks ago .. big bitches eating up tons of shit

 

[Mystic Funk]

is that all coco or is there perlite in there to??

looks to me like a PH/over watering problem
remember you need to use cal/mag with coco.

coco has a hard time holding water evenly by it's self.

if I were you. I would just get some good quality soil mix and call it a day...


good luck bubby.

 

[chronosync]

Coco holds water perfectly, OP adressed his own pH problem. Plus he already stated hes using cal/mag.

Darth. Coco rules. You got this.

 

[darthcultivator]

They are deficient because they are locking out nutes, not because you're not feeding them enough, is my guess.

What are the temps in your room? What size light and how far away is it from the plants?

Also what humidity

the temps drop no lower then 65f lights off and never exceed 80f lights on i would say at the moment they are 75f average. the humidity levels would drop to about 40rh lights on and stay around there lights off. i now have a warm mist humidifier in the box which boosts rh to about 70 and temps to around 77f.

the lights are diy pendant leds all individually dimmable. i have them all dimmed way down right now to help the plants catch up with photo synthisis. they are about 10" off the top. each led is only pushing around 20 watts. each plant has its own pendant.

 

[darthcultivator]

I don't believe that "root bound" is really an issue in coco as long as watering and feeding are dialed in. What do I base that on?

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=21634&pictureid=454777

The plant in this picture was cloned into and flowered in a beer cup of pure canna coco with canna nutes. Believe me, it was extremely root bound by the time it was chopped, with no ill effects.

thats very impressive!

 

[darthcultivator]

nute def.. prolly under fed.. just feed everytime in coco.. its not like soil.. feed to run off 15-20% run off.. and you will be good man..

treat like soil when transplanting .. but once roots set in. you can feed as much as you like everyday.. or not.. I know people who use big pots of coco and water 1-2 times a week.. or run smaller pots big plants..and feed daily..

I'm at end of flower right now. flushing and I gotta every single day.. since like a few weeks ago .. big bitches eating up tons of shit

yes i do water to 15-25% runoff. i also check runoof occasionally just to make sure nutes arent building up.

 

[darthcultivator]

thanks for all the tips chrono and everyone.

 

[darthcultivator]

is that all coco or is there perlite in there to??

looks to me like a PH/over watering problem
remember you need to use cal/mag with coco.

coco has a hard time holding water evenly by it's self.

if I were you. I would just get some good quality soil mix and call it a day...


good luck bubby.

yes it is pure coco. i used to use perlite mix with coco aprox 50/50, but since i switched to fabric pots and various research tells me that once roots are established, coco is very hard to overwater. after having a close inspection of the roots, they are all white even though there was very little growth in the pastweek or so.

i do feed every watering and only use straight ro/di when the ppms are much higher then ppm going in just to give then plants anotyer shot at the nute which are already present while bringing the ppm back where i want it. normal watering schedule is everyday.

also about coco needing cal mag. i am aware of the extra need for it in coco, but based on the info that homebrewer posted is that there is enough C in the dyna gro and that adding cal mag would just increase ppms. There are many others that say it is needed, so i just add 1ml/gal as a precaution and never have a C deficiency with Dyna gro. only the first week on one of my strains. this is i believe is because i do not buffer or precharge the coco prior to transplanting clones. after a few good waterings, its goes away and i never see a problem again.

 

[chronosync]

Whats the %ca in dyna-gro?
Any mg?
How big/tall is yr space?
How many watts?

I dont think you should regulate ppms in the container. If i want them drinking a certain nutrient solution @ 1ec for instance, i will top feed until the medium is saturated with what i want in there, replacing the rest out the bottom with each feeding.

Checking ppm runoff and ph is good for problem solving, but you should be paying more consistent attention to what is going IN.

IMHO.
Other than that it looks like yr gonna be all set?

Since you seem to have good control over heat and humidity you ought to take advantage of having good VPD. environment is HUGE, cannabis is tough and can tolerate a lot of shitty conditions and thats great but when given nearly ideal environment, that is when they can fulfill their total genetic potential

http://www.just4growers.com/stream/...-deficit-the-hidden-force-on-your-plants.aspx