Noob Questiion

[BennyBlanco]

how do u get a clone only strain?.......theres numerous ways to make a female clone turn hermi and then produce seeds.......right

 

[Guest]

1. You have to know someone who has the clone.

2. When a female clone is stressed out and turns hermaphrodite and pollinates its self, then you will have S1 seeds, or selfed.

 

[bbing]

Are S1 strains not as optimal? (what negative attributes do they have?)

What is meant when breeders say "stable" or stabilized?

Thanks

 

[Guest]

S1 strains tend to carry the hermaphrodite trait, which is very undesirable.

 

[.♠.]

S1 seeds reproduce all genetic representations of the said clone.

If you self a clone you are not going to get a bunch of seeds that are the same as the clone they came from. Though if you search through enough of them you will eventually find a good and or exact match of the original clone only cut.

Keep the Peace

 

[Guest]

Matanuska Thunderfuck from Alaska is considered a "clone only strain"....and one of the most famous strains of all time...anywhere in the world. (and for good reasons)

All the "true-breeding" MTF males are gone, and that means there will NEVER be another one. (unless some hillbilly comes out of the bush up here and has been sitting on a magical MTF male for 10 years or more)....and I wouldent be surprised if that DID happen. (we have a strange lot up here).

I have a couple original MTF moms from clones that were gifted to me by an old school Alaskan Biker (a harley guy/hells angel)...and he'd been growing MTF in the mat-su valley for more than 20 years....its legit, and the real deal.

I have tried to "coax" a male flower to get some s1's, but it really doesnt seem to work when ya try, and real MTF is a VERY VERY VERY stable strain....and as has been said, it's not gonna produce a "true breeding" male. thats what we are missing in the scenario.

I have crossed some badass genetics to the MTF Clones (Blockhead recently , and NYCDiesel ((a long time ago)), and thats been good enough for me)...I have some other breeding plans w/ the MTF X BH....that turned out the BEST by FAR.

I hope that helps

 

[darkside420]

So let me see if i get this straight theres no more MTF males anywhere? Excuse my retardedness, this means you can't get MTF seeds anywhere?

 

[BennyBlanco]

Damb wish i could get my hands on some MTF.......

What does Landrace mean?

 

[bbing]

I spent a couple suumers up there in Anchorage (working for park service seasonaly) My aunt turned me on to Matanuska Valley's finest. That was 20 years ago (holy shit..i'm old ). What was Mat-su strain befor and how did it get there? Land race??

What makes a strain stable?

Thanks

 

[Guest]

So let me see if i get this straight theres no more MTF males anywhere? Excuse my retardedness, this means you can't get MTF seeds anywhere?

That is correct.

there are a couple of versions of MTF out there, but they are NOT MTF.

Reefermans "kodiak gold" is supposed to be close

sag's "matanuska tundra" I've heard is close

capricorn has one called "Ultimate Indoor" (tundra x NL) its pretty close from my experience.

but none are the Real Deal.

...so to get your hands on MTF you'll pretty much have to be in Alaska, and the bikers in the valley are really the only source I know of, and they keep it closely guarded (believe it or not...I am not allowed to let clones slip away, or my grow WILL get fuked up)...I dont really know anyone, so It's not a worry...but my crosses are well liked, and the same bikers that i got clones from grow the crosses too, and CONSTANTLY rave.

and to be honest...I'm glad they are so strict about things...or possibly everyone would have MTF, and it wouldent be such a "holy grail".

 

[Kiefer]

Landrace is like a true pure strain.. usually from a plant inbreeding due to isolation until it becomes pure. Applies to most anything that involves breeding, not just herb plants.

 

[Guest]

What makes a strain stable?

Thanks

This is a good read on plant heredity -


Heredity

Cannabis plants inherit their genetic characteristics from their sets of parents. Natural heredity laws define why offspring inherit different traits from the same parents. These laws assist breeders to forecast the number of offspring that stand to inherit a specific trait. Anybody who is serious about breeding has a good background in the laws of heredity. It’s essential.

All plant cells contains chromosomes, microscopic forms inside cells. Genes occur in pairs within these chromosomes. Chromosomes are building blocks of genes and genes determine the characteristics of cannabis. Every cannabis cell contains two genes (one chromosome) for each characteristic. To illustrate, lets look at sex. Each plant has one male gene and one female gene. Cannabis has 10 pairs of chromosomes which makes a total of 20 chromosomes.

Diploid plants have the normal set of chromosomes that occur in pairs within the cells. Polyploid plants have multiple sets of chromosomes within one cell. Instead of having chromosomes in pairs, polyploid plants have chromosomes in groups of three or four. Tetraploid plants have groups of four chromosomes per cell. Many breeders have experimented with polyploid and tetraploid plants believing they would produce more potent plants. Polyploids can be induced with applications of colchicine. However colchicine is poisonous and polyploid plants are not more THC-potent, nor do they have any other redeeming qualities.

When the male and female germ cells join at fertilization, each adds one gene for each characteristic so that the new seed then has two genes for each attribute. The diverse combinations of each parents’ genes determine the traits of the offspring and of future generations.

Inbreeding establishes a pure breed. A pure breed has consistent chromosomes. That is, the genetic makeup of offspring is relatively uniform. This true or pure breed is necessary so common growth characteristics may be established. If the plants are not a pure breed, it will be impossible to predict the outcome of the hybrid plant. After the 4th to 6th generation of inbreeding, negative characteristics, like low potency, legginess and lack of vigor tend to dominate. Inbreeding is necessary to establish a true breed, but has been shied away from after the strain has been established.

Inbreeding establishes a stable reference point or plant to start from. The chosen females are bred back (back crossed) with males of the same strain. This will establish a true breed, plants with the same growth characteristics. These plants, of known ancestry and growth characteristics will be used to breed hybrid plants.

Outbreeding or producing hybrid seed is the practice of crossing two plants from different genetic backgrounds. An F1 (make the 1 in F1 superscript) hybrid is a first generation cross of two true breeding plants. F1 varieties are the most sought after plants available because they grow approximately 25 percent faster and larger than other crosses. This phenomena is known as hybrid vigor.

The offspring of F1 (make the 1 in F1 superscript) plants are called F2 (make the 1 in F1 superscript) and the offspring of F2 (make the 2 in F2 superscript) plants are called F3 (make the 3 in F3 superscript), etc. The subsequent generations after F1 do not experience hybrid vigor. F1 (make the 1 in F1 superscript) hybrids from seed companies must be brought back to true bred plants before they serve as consistent breeding stock.

 

[Guest]

What does Landrace mean?

Landrace refers to a race of animals or plants ideally suited for the land (environment) in which they live and, in some cases, work; they often develop naturally with minimal assistance or guidance from humans (or from humans using traditional rather than modern breeding methods), hence are usually older, less modern races.

 

[bbing]

ITO colchicine, I heard soaked seeds will genetically mutate to produce a polyploid plant. While the plant may be poisinous, the resulting seed will not be. As far as beneficial traits, dont polys produce vigourous and multiple floral spots? Kinda of like super-males or super-female humans (XXY & YXX) may phenotypically display "super" traits (I think maybe only super-females).

What happens when F3 crosses back to F1 or (whats the original hybrid x called?)

Can this allow refinement of selective triats?

What is the trait called when a plant generates double set of growing tips (non-induced) and is this a polyploid trait? Saw it mentioned on a Bogglegum grow

Man, I want to be a breeder!

Thanks a ton for the info!

 

[Guest]

What happens when F3 crosses back to F1 or

sibling incross

(whats the original hybrid x called?)

P1 x P1 = F1

What is the trait called when a plant generates double set of growing tips (non-induced)

self-topping? mutant? LOL

three or more lateral branches growing at the same node is called a whorled phyllotaxy , but thats not what you described....i dont think...

 

[Guest]

I heard soaked seeds will genetically mutate to produce a polyploid plant. While the plant may be poisinous, the resulting seed will not be. As far as beneficial traits, dont polys produce vigourous and multiple floral spots? Kinda of like super-males or super-female humans (XXY & YXX) may phenotypically display "super" traits (I think maybe only super-females).

Man, I want to be a breeder!

Thanks a ton for the info!

I think most of us here don't like playing with poison for obvious reasons, but if its something you wish to persue then proceed with caution. Ive read that the offspring is supposed to be more vigourous and plentiful as well. Two suggested books for you would be -

CONNOISSEUR'S HANDBOOK OF MARIJUANA - Bill Drake
http://www.erowid.org/library/books/connoisseurs_handbook_marijuana.shtml

Breeders Bible - Greg Green
http://www.greencandypress.com/drugsindex.html

Excerpt -
To use the colchicine, you should prepare your presoaking solution of distilled water with about 0.10 per cent colchicine. This will cause many of the seeds to die and not germinate, but the ones that do come up will be polyploid plants. This is the accepted difference between such strains as "gold" and normal grass, and yours will DEFINITELY be superweed. The problem here is that colchicine is a posion in larger quanities and may be poisonous in the first generation of plants. Bill Frake, author of CONNOISSEUR'S HANDBOOK OF MARIJUANA runs a very complete colchicine treatment down and warns against smoking the first generation plants (all succeeding generations will also be polyploid) bacause of this poisonous quality. However, the Medical Index shows colchicine being given in very small quantities to people for treatment if various ailments. Although these quantities are small, they would appear to be larger than any you could recive form smoaking a seed-treated plant. It would be a good idea to buy a copy of CONNOISSEUR'S, if you are planning to attempt this, and read Mr. Drake's complete instructions.

 

[bbing]

Yeah, heard they use it for gout, and it has very limmited efficacy in cancer tx.
From what I read, it works by acting directly on the spindles (prevents polar attachment) which results in chromosomes not dividing in meiosis (mitosis??) effectively doubling the chromosomal count of a single cell.

I have no intenttion of using it, but I remeber reading about it in a book about 24 years ago. (It may have been CONNOISSEURS"S by Drake).

I also read about gibrellic (sp?) acid (same book I think) which I have played with as a 18 yo (I am @ 40 now) when I grew in the closet of my first apt. I was able to apply with q-tip to one side of the stem and increase auxin activity in that side effectivly stretching that side (it would bend almost at a 90 degree angle with thick, thick growth. Makes me fantasize a little about using it to train a plant into a screenless scrog hehehe. I am not interested in using chemicals at this point that don't make complete and natural sense, as I am sure you are all in love with the natural resilience and adaptability of cannabis as I.

Again thanks for spending the time to answer my Q's. As you might can tell (love saying that)....I will retain much of this knowledge you share with me for perhaps another 20 years..that is of course...if you don't believe in some of the psuedo science about long term memmory effects. LOL.

I would love any recommendation you can give me on a cool breeding project. My grow skills are solid, my first DWC is kicking ass thanks to many of you here at IC.

I miss NIMBY a bit but I really can't believe I've been missing out such a great bunch here for so long. I believe I may be some of am the GOOD, that came with the BAD when all the shit that has gone down. Thanks for making me feel welcomed here.

P.S. Lost my dig camera in Baja couple weeks ago so it may be a little while before I can share my current project.

 

[fjällhöga]

sorry guys but IMHO this is the false column in the forum for such qs
Fj

 

[bbing]

Your right, I'm done here for now, sorry bout the thread jack. Just excited.

 

[Guest]

your posts/questions were appropriate and welcomed for sure
its just that its easier for folks to find such answers when doin searches in the future
if things are seperated in their own threads by topic.

its nothing personal hes just lookin out for the next guy that needs the info..

actually, you wouldnt have had to ask if things worked as they were supposed to,
each unique issue in its own thread, for the sake of posterity

some people just either dont care to do any research themselves
or just arent good at web searches....
dunno which category you fall into. dont care.
you got the info ya needed and that makes me :smile:

any further q's take to a new thread here in the breeders
or wherever u feel is appropriate
we'll be here to help if we can

welcome to icmag