NFL 2017

[Bababooey]

I dont know Pop, trubisky is a good looking guy, if he actually becomes an all-pro caliber QB maybe he can hook up with jennifer lawrence or some other big time actress, get himself a sugar mama and play for less than his market value. Not sure the bears would spend that extra cap room wisely though, ryan pace gave mike glennon 18M for 4 terrible games last year, might as well have lit that money on fire...

Colts have marlon mack and drafted a couple RB's in the 4th and 5th rounds, i figure they should have at least a league average run game, especially with the improvements on their O line. Having new coaches could be a plus too, pagano wasnt exactly a world beater.
But really, it all comes down to Luck. He's like aaron rodgers, put him on a 3-4 win team and he'll take them to the playoffs. If luck comes into camp throwing darts to all parts of the field, every expert is going to revise their predictions. But for now, without evidence of him throwing a football, they have to assume the worst.

It's weird that bourdain and kate spade both committed suicide this week. I guess being successful and famous isnt all it's cracked up to be?
Did bourdain ever get visibly sloshed on his show? I know he'd drink with every meal, but it didnt seem like he had more than 1 or 2 at a time.
He had a substance abuse problem years ago, heroin and cocaine, so it's interesting that he still used alcohol and cigarettes. Kept himself to the legal drugs i guess.
Makes me wonder if he just found some good afghani in france and just did too much, like philip seymour hoffman. Sometimes, if an addict takes up the horse again, they do too much the first time out and bam, breathing stops. Without anyone checking up on them regularly, theyre blue and lifeless by the time theyre found.
But if it was suicide, did he leave a note? That would mean it's deliberate and not just a tragic accident.

 

[iTarzan]

He supposedly hung himself Baba.

 

[Bababooey]

Ah crap, now i feel like a real heel, suggesting he was back on the H-train.
Dang, he had an 11 year old daughter too. And was just talking a few months ago about wanting to live for her. Doesnt make much sense, but suicide never does, i guess. Wonder if he was on anti-depressants; perversely, those drugs sometimes give you the motivation to actually go through with suicide plans, or increases suicidal thoughts when youre no longer on them...

Anyway, just to keep the thread on topic, Edelman is going to be suspended for 4 games for PEDs, and terrell owens isnt going to attend his HOF induction, just to spite the voters who didnt put him in when he was first eligible 2 years ago.
Speaking of the HOF, Urlacher is going to be inducted; ill watch his speech, just to see if he laments having grossman/orton as his qb's in 2007 when they went to the superbowl...

 

[iTarzan]

Mack had shoulder surgery so he is an unknown right now. Evidently that is why they didn't use him much the last part of the season.

I read somewhere Baba that it is very expensive to go to the HOF ceremonies . You have to pay for lodging, travel and other things for family and friends. Most players have a team that sponsers them because they played for them for years. T.O doesn't have one to do that. He had his money stolen by his accountants and investment team. Plus he burned bridges with some teams he played for. Most of his teammates liked him, he always played well, was a good willing blocker and hustled. I think he unfairly got a bad rep.

He was right about McNabb and also about some of the Cowboys. Some tv show will televise TT's private party and acceptance speech and fit the bill and pay TO.

 

[pop_rocks]

i agree with you baba' about how luck is a game changer when he is healthy and in good form
with the improvements to their O-line it should not only help the run game but let luck breath a little easier
plus, when an offense is moving the ball it actually helps the defense play better
i agree with some of the points itarzan mentioned,(lack of an established run game, holes on defense) i think if luck is back it changes the whole team

dude, when i wrote that i had not heard about what happened
who knows why he took his own life, but i would be interested in seeing a toxicology report
unless he and his wife were having problems ( i heard thats why kate spade was upset) you have to wonder what happened
sometimes we all go through low points, but to feel so bad you want to take your own life
if you havent seen them, watch some of his early episodes of no reservation
especially the ones with this guy names zymeer (SP?) in russia and another in the ukraine
the guy liked to drink and knew how to have a good time

 

[Bababooey]

I didnt know marlon mack had a torn labrum (isnt that the same as a luck's injury?) last year. He was someone on the fantasy radar as a breakout candidate, but people figured he wasnt ever going to get most of the carries because of frank gore. Turns out it was cause he had a bum shoulder, i guess. But gore's no longer on the team - he used to be great and will still probably finish his career with 14K rushing yards, but now he's the classic plodder: "if you need 3 yards, he'll get you 3 yards. If you need 5 yards, he'll get you 3 yards."
The defense may not be any better, especially if tarzan is right and their top 4 lb's wouldnt start for any other team. Kind of like the bears WR corps at the end of last year: their #1, dontrelle inman, was the chargers' #4 WR before he got traded. No wonder trubisky was throwing for like 150yds per game.
But like Pop said, it's all about luck. If he can lead the offense to 28pts a game, then even if the D gives up 25ppg they could still win. That's not a recipe for playoff success but they could at least get there.

I liked T.O as a player, i remember being impressed with him in that game against the bears where he had multiple drops but came through with a tough TD catch at the end. And he was just a dominant player overall although definitely a diva. I know he's had money troubles but am surprised no team would pick up his HOF tab. He gave the niners, eagles and cowboys some good years, jerry jones is known to be generous, none of those teams was willing to step up? Sad.

Bourdain was separated or divorced from his wife for years and was dating asia argento. That kind of drama can really stress you out but from all accounts everything was pretty amicable between all parties. But people are complicated creatures so there probably wasnt any one thing you could point to that was the reason. He was also 61 maybe he got some bad medical news?
He got sloshed in Russia? Makes sense. I think they dispense vodka in petrol hoses there. Here we call it E85, there they call it happy hour...

 

[pop_rocks]

i think indys success is all about that 28pts a game luck can get you
if their run game improves it helps a lot, but it ultimately comes down to luck and his ability to sling that ball
a run game is important and maybe they will pick up someone, or they can continue to develope what they have, but i think it all comes down to luck
i hope gore has a season or two left in him where ever he ends up; hes not going to put up amazing numbers at this point but he will still give you a few solid touches every game

im with you guys, i always thought T.O. was a pretty good receiver
he had a lot of swagger, but i think that was part of the time, where you had a lot of these almost larger than life athletes
but they could ball so hard that it was worth a little drama on and off the field
i heard he was going to host his own party
i hope he goes over the top and has a total pool party jam complete with celebrity guests
/havent seen charlie sheen in a while

 

[Bababooey]

Frank gore is with the dolphins, it's a homecoming for him, he grew up in that area, went to the U for college. He'll probably pass curtis martin this year, but i doubt he'll break 15K yards this year (barry sanders is next at 15.3K yards). Still, he had 900 yds last year as a 34 year old RB, which is geriatric for that position...

It seems like the patriots and eagles showed that you just need good RB's, not elite ones, to have playoff success. But probably the reason their RB's arent considered elite is that theyre part of committees: it's hard to put up top 5 numbers when you're sharing the ball between 2-3 backs.
Did the eagles show that you dont necessarily need an elite qb to win a title? Flacco won a title in 2012, peyton won in 2015 when he was at his worst. Heck, bortles almost took his team to the superbowl last season, and probably would have if the jaguars didnt take their foot off the gas in the 2nd half against the patriots.
But yeah, if luck isnt his old self, the colts are probably effed. Although jacoby brissett isn't bad; he averages like 1 TD a game but at least he doesnt turn the ball over.

TO was the classic diva receiver. He was entertaining on the field (didnt he pull out a sharpie and sign a football after a TD?) but off the field, not so much. I remember he once had a reality show, think i watched one minute of it before turning to something else - then again, i generally despise most reality tv.

Julio jones is holding out of minicamp this week. He signed a contract 3 years ago but i guess is pissed there's like 7 other receivers making more than him now. Which, i get it, he's not the 8th best WR in the league, but sports contracts are like technology; in 6 months (let alone a year or two) something better comes along.

 

[Green989]

Interesting! A big hugg!
Byeee!!

 

[pop_rocks]

hahah, i remember when TO pulling out the sharpie and signed the ball on the field
i have no problem with celebration as long as it dosent cross the line and become taunting or interfeer with the flow of the game
im glad the league relaxed the rules regarding display on the field,touchdown dances, and choreographed celebrations are all in good fun and add to the game
for a while it looked like the trend was rb by committee and teams werent really focused on the ground game
we have seen that change lately with more value being placed on the possition (if we look at the last few draft classes) but it still seems the ground game just isnt in style
/i cant think of any teams i would consider a run first team right now
one thing that never goes out of style in the nfl is defense
with an injury to shane ray in denver, looks like first round pick, bradley chubb is getting some first team reps in
from the sound of it, he is getting the feel for the game and enjoying his time working out with the starters
with so many things in transition, i think defense is the foundation of the team in the mile high city and cant wait to see how the other pieces fit together

 

[iTarzan]

Luck is throwing a football. He has been for 2 weeks now. It is a high school football which weighs the same but not quite as big in circumference. But almost the same size. I read he threw a regulation NFL "The Duke" football playing catch with HC eich a couple weeks ago.

He was throwing during 1st day of minicamp. He is evidently going to be ready for training camp and the regular season.

The talk coming out of Buffalo is that QB Allen is very good. Shady McCoy sounded real optimistic.

 

[Bababooey]

Yeah, it was pretty funny to see some of the group TD celebrations this past season. Ring around the rosie, bowling pins and ball, group selfies, they added some whimsy to an otherwise violent game.

The RB by committee approach maybe helps to win games if you have several good but not great backs and want to keep them all fresh through a game, but it plays havoc with fantasy owners. But yeah, ezekiel and fournette and now saquon the last 3 years, all are bellcow RB's. Which i guess they would have to be, to be worthy of top 5 draft picks.
I guess the titans tried to be a run first team last year (the 'exotic smashmouth offense, whatever that means')? Maybe the bears, because rookie qb and bad WR corps? The bills, with mccoy and tyrod?

I agree that offenses can win you a lot of games but defenses win you championships. Rodgers, peyton, brady, brees are basically the best ever at their position, but the only rings they won came when they had a top 10 performing defense. In the playoffs you're not facing any weak teams so you cant always count on your
offense putting up 30 a game...

Shane ray had a 4th surgery on his left wrist, which he hurt at the beginning of last year. 4 surgeries on the same body part doesnt sound too promising.
Maybe the addition of bradley chubb alone can make the broncos a top 3 defense again, but most important for that team is whether keenum is the real deal at QB. If he could have a 25td, 10int season for them, i figure they'll win at least 9 games.
If keenum isnt the answer, i figure chad kelly is a better long term option than paxton lynch, who couldnt even beat out trevor siemian in 2 years.

Luck didn't throw a pass over 15 air yards but it's certainly promising news. I thought high school balls are maybe one oz lighter than nfl footballs but that's pretty negligible. Still, it shows that he's disciplined in his approach to rehabbing his shoulder.
He might stick to shorter throws at the beginning of camp, and we shouldnt expect him to play much if any preseason games, but the real test is when he gets laid out or dumped on that shoulder, which will happen at least a few times this season.

Every player looks good during ota's or training camp. Even if they suck it's "well, he's just learning the system, best to make mistakes now than in games that count". McCoy said some nice things but he's just being a good teammate; what's he supposed to say, 'oh hell, this guy sucks, what a waste of a draft pick'?
I think Allen is one of those workout warriors, guys who look good in shirts and shorts but in an actual game, against live competition, i think he's going to struggle just to be average. But yknow, i could very well be wrong...

 

[pop_rocks]

tyrod is a mobile qb
this definitely adds to he ground game and can be a real threat when a qb can beat you with his arm and legs
its been a while but the nfl has seen its share of mobile gun slingers
/this includes guys who can scramble, not just the quarterbacks that could take off down field
i was a big fan of m.vick back in the day and remember a young kid name elway who played in mile high who was known to move around
deshaun watson has some wheels on him but its still kind of early to see how he will develop, and coming off his injury, they arent trying to see him absorb a lot of hits
/especially the kind you can take running down field
speaking of hits, like you said,baba', the real test for luck is going to be contact
its great that the arm has not fallen off and i hope hes whipping them down the field by the end of camp, but you can bet teams are going to be testing durability once the season begins
/just like with cam newton, hit him a few times and you might be able to change the way he plays
i happened to be looking at a fantasy ranking the other day and they had luck ranked in the top-10 qb's
fantasy guys tend to look at things with a very analytical eye, so i found this an interesting take

 

[Bababooey]

Tyrod is a good runner but an average passer at best; the only reason he's a starting option (in real life as well as fantasy) is because his legs add value to his overall game.
I remember vick's comeback season with the eagles, when kolb got hurt and vick came in, had a 6 td game (4 passing, 2 rushing) on MNF, and started the rest of the season (i think). The next year he was named the starter going into week 1, and the eagles added a bunch of free agents, vince young was the backup and said this was going to be a dream team. Well that dream team finished 8-8 and out of the playoffs.
Vick is faster and more agile than even most def backs but his problem was he had no fear of contact and kept taking hits and getting hurt because he's not cam newton-sized. If only he'd take his 8-10 yds on scrambles and step out of bounds or slide instead of trying to squeeze more yards out and take a big hit, he might still be playing into his late 30's like brady and brees.

Frank Reich is supposedly going to install a quick tempo, short passing game for the colts, but luck's problem is that he's also too brave, he'll stand stand stand in the pocket, buy time for receivers to get open and then take a big hit right after he throws.
Tarzan, did luck's shoulder injuries happen when he got hit from behind and fell forward, and he tried to break his fall with his arms and his shoulder got hyper extended? Or was it more he got dumped on his shoulder, like when rodgers broke his collarbone last year?

 

[iTarzan]

His shoulder and his kidney were from cheap shots. The kidney laceration happened against the Bengals. That is all you really need to know... the Bengals. It was a cheap shot. The initial spearing with the helmet right in the liver kidney area and then when he was down the same thing happened by another player on the back behind the liver and kidney.

Yeah he might have just went down but the fact is he wouldn't have been hurt and probably would have run for more yards if the guy hit him clean. The year before when Burfict was cheap shoting everybody and was fined numerous times. He missed the last quater or so of the season because he tried to spear Luck on a run inside the 15 yard line. Luck lowered his shoulder and ran over Burfict and scored a TD. They took Burfict off the field on a stretcher.

The shoulder injury is not certain when it happened. I think it was the first game of the 2016 season against the Bills. The first set of downs for the Colts. Yes the Colts didn't block. Yes he can hold on to the ball trying to make a play but... Jerry Hughes an ex Colt was the villian. Luck gets wrapped up behind the line and does his Big Ben imitation and drags a few defenders and then goes down and the whistle blew. Hughes then dives late right on Lucks shoulder. The penalty was called. You could tell it hurt Luck though. Then the very next play the exact same thing happens again. Hughes get a late hit penalty and Luck got screwed. He missed a few games off and on. That is when Hasselbeck came in and played.

They want him to be more careful but you don't want him to not play his game because his game is very good. The cheap shots got him not his hard play. Although his play style gives opportunities for cheap shots. Just like with Cam. Luck is basically the same size and almost as fast as Cam. Everybody seems to like the way Cam plays because he needs to run some to get things done. It is what he does. He isn't the classic throwing QB all though he can throw. Luck is the classic in the pocket QB but he can run just like Cam. People love Big Ben's game. How he holds on to the ball and drags defenders around. They love it. I love it. Well Luck can do that too.
If the Colts block for Luck, even like an average team, he is going to tear it up. If they get even an average running game he will have a monster year.
It really does stink what happened to Luck. He just might get to show what he can really do.

He isn't overrated or overhyped. He has gotten no help and repeatedly taken cheap shots.

 

[Bababooey]

I thought the kidney thing happened against the titans? He took an inadvertent knee to the small of the back?
Or maybe he re-hurt the shoulder against the titans?
I'm having trouble finding video of these hits; if I had gamepass i could replay the whole game from past seasons.

Burfict is always getting suspended for illegal hits or ped's; i like him as an Individual defensive player in fantasy football, since he racks up a lot of tackles, but he's so often hurt or suspended that he's not reliable.
I found a replay of luck knocking out burfict; wasnt actually a dirty play, they were both running to the sideline and then cut in at the same time. Burfict did lower his head, wouldnt say he was hunting for luck's head, more like he was trying to put his helmet on the ball luck had tucked in his arm. Burfict's helmet hit him in the numbers (and bounced off) and burfict's arms wrapped around luck's legs, making the tackle. Just two big strong dudes hitting each other, but burfict should have kept his helmet up, his head took most of that impact.

Luck played with a hurt shoulder all of his last full year, 2016. Had a good year passing (30tds, career high yards per att and completion percentage) but i think he later said, sometimes he'd get hit a certain way and it 'wouldn't feel so good', which is as much of a complaint as you'll get from him about being injured.

Who knows, he might have been able to play last year, 2017, also. He was throwing deep passes in camp, only he still had pain and soreness, probably similar to '15 and '16.
I'm glad he didnt play though, pain is the body's way of telling you "hey bro, something aint right here".

It will be interesting to see if he can play all 16 games. The colts could win as many as 11 games or as few as 6, depending on how the new additions and coaching staff performs.

Cam and Luck's combine measureables are pretty comparable, Cam is a big bigger and faster than luck, luck a little more explosive and agile (better jumping and shuttle times).
I remember luck's first 2 years, he had as many rushing td's as cam's first 2 years. For that he was said to have 'underrated athleticism', but anyone who paid attention knew physically he was on a par with cam, just that in college he didnt run nearly as much as cam (who ran the read option at auburn).

 

[pop_rocks]

so how does that work,baba'?
are there fantasy leagues that let you draft individual players on O and D ?
that sounds like fun but is probably for the more advanced fantasy player
/burfect is a dirty player but i can understand why you would like him on your roster
also what does ppr mean?
i was looking at some fantasy rankings lately and the had both standard scoring plus ppr
i was also surprised at how many RB/WR players they had in the top players overall
/could you say field a roster without a position; say you just load up on RBs and WRs, do you have to fill in the QB spot
i know i said it before but maybe this will be the year i take the plunge and sign up for a fantasy league
while they may have simular size, i think luck is a lot more polished than cam newton as far as the nfl goes
/i think hes a better passer and can read the defenses better
no matter how good a runner you are, at some point even the fastest qb's are coached to use their arm more than their legs at the next level
man, im ready for some football!

so do you guys have any plans for the 4rth?

 

[iTarzan]

Hey Baba the kidney happened against the Broncos. It begins with a B like Bengals though. LOL! I went a looked up the play. It wasn't like I remembered at all. The guy in the back hit him kinda cheap but the first guy actually did get him with his shoulder first. Luck should have went down instead of trying to be Marshawn Lynch.

I can't believe Luck didn't score on Burfict. Maybe right after that they did. I'm getting old and I am always stoned so I have an excuse.

I never can find a replay of that Bills game. That was total BS with Hughes.

We might have mentioned this before but I just was reading about the Bears and they have Aaron Lynch. I have been expecting big things from him for a few years now. He looked on the verge but then got hurt. Now he is on the Bears and healthy. He was a freshman at the same time as Clowney. He was rated almost exactly the same as Clowney but Clowney was #1 HS DE and Lynch was #2. Their freshman years, Lynch went to ND, Lynch was just as good and maybe better than Clowney. He was a beast. Then he became a homesick headcase and left ND. The potential is there for Lynch to be a superstar. He can get sacks and has a knack for blocking passes.

There are some writers saying the Bears are underrated and will be a potential playoff team. Did you know the Bears had the first RG III? Yep Rex Grossman III. Then the Redskins had two RG IIIs.

Pop rocks I get stoned and watch the neighbors massive fireworks show. They always have a few scantily clad woman running arououn that are fun to watch too.

 

[pop_rocks]

not the replay of the bills game, but luck trucking vontaze- me burfect

https://thebiglead.com/2014/10/19/v...game-by-andrew-luck-after-red-zone-collision/

/looks like burfect overran the play, but still, luck shook him

 

[Space Toker]

you all really still talking about last year?! Even I am over that, one team won and it wasn't mine nor most of your favorite teans. Shit happens to the best and worst of us.
You really should start a thread about 2018 already and be proclaiming my favorite teams champs already.... yeah a whole season has to be played but had to make a play at confidence here, point is no appointing or annointing anyone yet or whatever the saying is but like my favorite teams chances again, go Patriots!!!