Neem Oil vs. Mycorrhizae

[Dawn Patrol]

Dawn Patrol

Since I last posted on this thread I've switched from the Dyna-Gro Neem Seed Oil product to an organic source, i.e. The Ahimsa Foundation (nee NeemResource.com) and they carry both organic neem seed oil as well as an organic karanja seed oil. They also carry both organic versions of neem seed meal and karanja seed meal.

After you posted that link the first time I ordered a gallon of Neem oil and 5 lbs of the Neem cake. Never thought to order the karanja oil or cake.

I'll be watching this thread closely, hopefully we can get a few more people to post their methods and experiences with Neem and Karanja and we can all learn to grow better.

 

[BorgClone]

My neem experience

I have been using two types of neem products, JBQ, spanish company sells 30ML bottle for 9 euro and i think it is expensive i made around 30LT foliar spray with it. I mixed 1\20 of neem cake from other vendor in my soil per recomendation of one local store (maybe to sell me the thing LOL)

What was it good against?

I found it usefull against this fuckers and this ones and also against locusts, in the locust case not really killing them but i guess the taste was not so good because the amount consumed was far less after i put the foliar spray with the oil based product. I only saw good results after the second third CONSECUTIVE application, and every time it rains you should in my opinion got to the spot and aply the neem again because it will lose effect if its washed away by rain.

Things that neem was not so successful was the litle red spider mites, there was some control but due to the nature of neem you need to aply it several times in a kind of short window for it to build up serious efect seems i was not really aware of the speed this red bastards can grow and had to use another product that would kill the eggs also. Neem would kill adults but they would come back eventually any other week.

Did the use of neem cake had a bad efect on my fungus population?

Im just a stoner not a scientist but i saw noting on my observation that would lead me to think that. The neem cake was a good soil amendment in my opinion. I had some later containers with a soil were i had no more neem cake to mix and the ones that had the cake were as healthy as one could hope.

Any particular efects you have noticed?

Seems to me the worms in my area dont like the holes and plots were the neem cake was used, i find him all around in even dryer ground one would expect to see worms but never in my soil\plot ground, and no snails also and i had problems and losses before and neem cake i think it helped.

my 2 cents exp regarding neem oil!

 

[Mud Man]

this thread is awesome.. Nice work guys.
I use Myc and Neem so i am keen to find out more,. lots of good info here peace.

Only used a few times.I have never soil drenched, i feel the 'terpines' would linger and effect taste. just My Opinion, as the neem is smelly stuff,

 

[cannaholiker]

Very nice

 

[Dawn Patrol]

Been adding Neem cake to my compost teas. Smells like strong coffee, and damn CC, I'm only adding 2 tablespoons to 5 gal, not an entire cup!

 

[Dawn Patrol]

Anybody else trying this stuff???

CC, if I amend the soil with neem cake, will it still have the same effect as a soil drench?

 

[Clackamas Coot]

CC, if I amend the soil with neem cake, will it still have the same effect as a soil drench?

Dawn Patrol

CaptCheeze1 has posted that since he began adding neem seed meal to some test plants he has not had any gnats or whatever flying around. That's been my experience as well.

I probably add more of the neem/karanja meal than he does - I add about 1/2 cup to 1 c.f. of the potting soil mix.

Keep in mind that both of the seed meals contain a strong 'N' profile and especially a strong micro-nutrient profile. It's also true that these specific seed meals facilitate the nitrification process in the soil.

It's my experience that adding these seed meals to the soil is as important as adding kelp meal. In some ways even more important.

YMMV

CC

 

[guest2012y]

Being that I'm no scientist...I can only state observations that I witness. Is it the neem seed meal or the crab shell meal..or is it both? All I really know for sure is that since the addition of these amendments in my organic recycled soil mix,I have zero issues with gnats,root aphids,thrips,and wether or not it's working to keep mites away is unknown to me. I haven't had to spray neem/silicone for a couple months since there is nothing flying around or eating my plants.
Was it the girl..or was it the music......EDIT: However, I do have other bugs in my soil...mostly blind soil thrips,worms,pillbugs,and soil mites. All pretty much harmless if balance is maintained.

 

[Dawn Patrol]

Now this is what I was looking for - real world experience! Thanks guys for your contributions, I'll continue to update with my experiences as well.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Neem & Earthworms

Neem & Earthworms

by S. Gajalakshmi and S. A. Abbasi
Centre for Pollution Control and Energy Technology
Pondicherry University
Kalapet, Pondicherry 605 014
India


Abstract

Vermicomposting of neem (Azadirachta indica A. Juss) was accomplished in ‘high-rate’ reactors operated at the earthworm (Eudrilus eugeniae) densities of 62.5 and 75 animals per litre of reactor volume. Contrary to the fears that neem - a powerful nematicide - might not be palatable to the annelids, the earthworms fed voraciously on the neem compost, converting upto 7% of the feed into vermicompost per day.

Indeed the worms grew faster and reproduced more rapidly in the neem-fed vermireactors than in the reactors fed with mango leaf litter earlier studied by the authors (Gajalakshmi et al., 2003). Another set of experiments on the growth, flowering, and fruition of brinjal (Solanum melongena) plants with and without fertilization with vermicompost, revealed that the vermicompost had a significantly beneficial impact.

That's what they found..............

CC

 

[guest2012y]

Here's some before and after pix of plants that I tried killing with neem but they wouldn't die...so I planted them outside in native soil with very few amendments. Seems cannabis can take a lot more of neem than I thought. These were treated with 1/4 cup per quart of water as a soil drench I believe

SAME PLANTS

 

[Dawn Patrol]

These were treated with 1/4 cup per quart of water as a soil drench I believe

Just to clarify, was this a 1/4 cup of neem cake or neem oil? How many applications?

 

[3rdEye]

I've only used neem oil as a pest control method, but i have noticed that i can mix it at much higher ratios than recommended with minimal/no damage and much longer lasting insect control.

CC What were your application rates and how long did you continue it for? ... errr edit: what they said ^^^^ Looks like they are doing just fine now.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

CC What were your application rates and how long did you continue it for? Looks like they are doing just fine now.

3rdEye

I add about 1 cup of a mix that is equal amounts of both organic neem seed meal as well as organic karanja meal to 1 c.f. of mixed potting soil.

For both the neem and karanja oils, I mix 1 tsp. with 1 tsp. of Dyna-Gro Pro-TeKt liquid silica as an emulsifier. I then add that to 1 quart of water and mix. Then I add 2 tsp. of yucca extract as a surfactant and yucca contains very high levels of saponins which is claimed to trigger specific plant defenses against anaerobic fungi as well as facilitating the repair caused by leaf-eating insects like spider mites.

If it's much past the 3rd week in the 12/12 cycle, I make a tea from the seed meals along with kelp (kelp will inhibit the hatching of spicer mite eggs) and bubble it out for 24 hours or so and apply that as a foliar application and/or soil soak.

I apply the neem/karanja oil mix 2x per week through the entire veg cycle and up through the 3rd week of flower.

It works. Repeat applications is the key here from my understanding and reading of how neem seed/karanja seed products work.

HTH

CC

 

[EddieShoestring]

fantastic info...as ever, guys

I've used neem as a soil drench on several grows-5ml/L and a drop of wetting agent with the nutes a couple of times a week-i thought that it did work systemically.

cheers
eddieS

 

[guest2012y]

Just to clarify, was this a 1/4 cup of neem cake or neem oil? How many applications?

1/4 cup neem oil
1/4 cup dynagro protect to 1 gallon water
CC's method would be the ideal one..I'm just pointing out that neem oil isn't anything to be to afraid of.
Bear in mind some types of plants can't deal with it in higher doses. I had a plant gifted to me that came with root aphids...I applied this percentage and killed them bastards with no effect on the plants health.
The plants pictured were given the same dose,but they were in pint sized pots....they turned crayon yellow. I put them outside and expect to harvest a decent amount of bud off them now. I assume the native soil with a few amendments and compost teas this summer helped them out huh. YMMV

 

[3rdEye]

thanks Clackamas I wrote that recipe down. I will let you know when i use that formulation. Just getting ready to re-start my lactobacillus project tomorrow when i cook some more rice. ... i'm following the recipe exactly as stated. lol

Capt Cheeze What is your neem oil brand/source? I've found a noticeable difference in application rate concentrations between products.

On that crayon yellowing bit... an aside, but i have had all my plants turn the same or a similar color after the application of ACT. At the same time there was a very pronounced increase in smell and vigor, but i found the color disconcerting to say the least. :/ This hasn't happened after every application though. I need a microscope for sure. That's on the wish list.

 

[guest2012y]

thanks Clackamas I wrote that recipe down. I will let you know when i use that formulation. Just getting ready to re-start my lactobacillus project tomorrow when i cook some more rice. ... i'm following the recipe exactly as stated. lol

Capt Cheeze What is your neem oil brand/source? I've found a noticeable difference in application rate concentrations between products.

On that crayon yellowing bit... an aside, but i have had all my plants turn the same or a similar color after the application of ACT. At the same time there was a very pronounced increase in smell and vigor, but i found the color disconcerting to say the least. :/ This hasn't happened after every application though. I need a microscope for sure. That's on the wish list.

You have to have a well built soil to start....
I'm not much of one to recommend anything from a bottle...but this is the stuff...Dyna-Gro Neem oil and Dyna-Gro Pro-TeKt..(silicone)....research it and you'll feel that it it's safe for use in organics. Hey would the Coot lie to us?

 

[3rdEye]

You have to have a well built soil to start....
I'm not much of one to recommend anything from a bottle...but this is the stuff...Dyna-Gro Neem oil and Dyna-Gro Pro-TeKt..(silicone)....research it and you'll feel that it it's safe for use in organics. Hey would the Coot lie to us?

Yeah.. still working on building good soil. Paying close attention here though and turning theory into soil. When i was a bottle grower i used earth juice and age old, but now it's an entirely different world for me. I love learning more soil and organisms in general.

Capt Cheeze thanks for the suggestion. I have used the dyna-gro neem oil with good success before, but my next batch of oil and seed cake is coming from a source that I think JayKush recommended.

 

[guest2012y]

Yeah.. still working on building good soil. Paying close attention here though and turning theory into soil. When i was a bottle grower i used earth juice and age old, but now it's an entirely different world for me. I love learning more soil and organisms in general.

Capt Cheeze thanks for the suggestion. I have used the dyna-gro neem oil with good success before, but my next batch of oil and seed cake is coming from a source that I think JayKush recommended.

Equally good I'm sure....if these guys recommend something,it's all good.