I have gotta agree.
Too much water and not enough air circulation is causing your problems.
Just looking at the plant gives the mental image of a sponge that needs wrung out.
Need help with brown spots, stunted growth, and yellowing leaves on 2 young plants.
- Thread starter PlateausOfLeng
- Start date
I have gotta agree.
Too much water and not enough air circulation is causing your problems.
Just looking at the plant gives the mental image of a sponge that needs wrung out.
bobman
Member
new growers do not understand what dry really is. just because the top inch is dry does not mean there is not a mud ball in the center of the container. when plants have an established rootball they can handle more water but when they are young you must be very careful especially when the container is a little bigger. He should really just take the plant out of the container to see what is going on. again i guarantee the roots are stunted.
PlateausOfLeng
Member
bobman: Thanks for the advice. I will let these two dry out. Yes, there are 5-6 drainage holes in the bottom of the cups. I have been watering them every 3 days, but I think you are correct about the overwatering. Do you agree that I should stop using distilled?
SeaMaiden: I guess I will have to stop using the distilled water, but I don't know what I should start using. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, my water here is run through a water softener (which I have no control over), so it is no good. I can't afford a RO system right now. What should I do for water? jugs of spring water instead of the distilled?
SeaMaiden: I guess I will have to stop using the distilled water, but I don't know what I should start using. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, my water here is run through a water softener (which I have no control over), so it is no good. I can't afford a RO system right now. What should I do for water? jugs of spring water instead of the distilled?
S
SeaMaiden
***Edit*** DAMN people post fast here!
Did he ever answer if he's got holes in those cups?
***Edit*** Yes, there are holes which should equal good drainage.
Use water straight from the tap BEFORE it goes through the softener. Do you have access to a water line that's not softened? Remember to use your nose for chlorine, if it's got that chlorine smell you should let the water sit out for 24hrs. If you're in a hurry to use it then dechlorinate with either aquarium conditioner (expensive and not my favorite option) or sodium thiosulfate, or citric acid.
Did he ever answer if he's got holes in those cups?
***Edit*** Yes, there are holes which should equal good drainage.
Use water straight from the tap BEFORE it goes through the softener. Do you have access to a water line that's not softened? Remember to use your nose for chlorine, if it's got that chlorine smell you should let the water sit out for 24hrs. If you're in a hurry to use it then dechlorinate with either aquarium conditioner (expensive and not my favorite option) or sodium thiosulfate, or citric acid.
Yes stop using distilled water.
Bottled spring water would be better. Or you could go to the park and fill a couple 5 gallon jugs every few days.
My water softener has a valve and spigot at the intake side where I can hook up a hose for bypassing the softener. Also you might check cause most installers will bypass the laundry, water heater and toilets when they install the softener because the salt used in them screws with heating elements, pumps and valves.
You can likely install a "T" and valve someplace pretty easily.
S
SeaMaiden
How about harvesting some rain? I've really found nothing better. I do have to get rid of the first trash can-ful of rain because it's got all kinds of crap washed off the roof.
If you're in Texas, never mind the comment about the rain.
If you're in Texas, never mind the comment about the rain.
PlateausOfLeng
Member
I'll look into bypassing the softener. I know that the water here is VERY hard, even after the softening. Will that be an issue?
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SeaMaiden
Yes, it could indeed cause problems. Hard water = alkaline (measured not as pH, but as resistance to pH shift). That needs to be accounted for especially when growing in containers, and the smaller the container the more quickly it can become a problem.
What volumes of water are you needing to handle, on, say... a weekly basis? 35gals (a trash can), more, less? If it's significantly less then you can simply filter through carbon (Brita or similar filter) and that would be sufficient. OR, you can boil the water which will also tell you the general type of hardness (temporary or permanent). In order to know more about the hardness levels you would need to test, and that's relatively inexpensive and simple to do with a Tetra Laborette test kit, which is made for both freshwater and marine aquariums (this is my own background and much more extensive area of knowledge). With that kit you can test pH, as well as general and carbonate hardness. The carbonate test measures both CaCO3 and MgCO3. The general hardness test measures overall mineral content.
Test the water prior to boiling, then boil the water for 7-10 minutes and measure. With my own well water I achieved a nearly 40% reduction in overall hardness simply by boiling. Look it up, it works, it's just not exactly energy efficient when you need tens, dozens or hundreds of gallons.
What volumes of water are you needing to handle, on, say... a weekly basis? 35gals (a trash can), more, less? If it's significantly less then you can simply filter through carbon (Brita or similar filter) and that would be sufficient. OR, you can boil the water which will also tell you the general type of hardness (temporary or permanent). In order to know more about the hardness levels you would need to test, and that's relatively inexpensive and simple to do with a Tetra Laborette test kit, which is made for both freshwater and marine aquariums (this is my own background and much more extensive area of knowledge). With that kit you can test pH, as well as general and carbonate hardness. The carbonate test measures both CaCO3 and MgCO3. The general hardness test measures overall mineral content.
Test the water prior to boiling, then boil the water for 7-10 minutes and measure. With my own well water I achieved a nearly 40% reduction in overall hardness simply by boiling. Look it up, it works, it's just not exactly energy efficient when you need tens, dozens or hundreds of gallons.
bobman
Member
yea just bypass the softener. there should be a spicket somewhere. my water is extremely hard here no problem. ideally let it sit for 24 hrs if you have chlorine but if they add chlorimides it will not evaporate off. i have never really seen a difference but chlorine type products supposedly kill soil microbes. i am in hempy buckets now so i mix ro and tap but this is to get my ph where i want it without having to use ph up or down. soil is very forgiving. you just experienced one of the few problems you will run into.
PlateausOfLeng
Member
Should I use the 1:1:1 Potting Mix + Compost + Perlite?
It is Earthgro Potting Mix (from wal-mart), Garden Compost (also from wal-mart... says it has a small amount of lime added to regulate pH), and MG Perlite (which I rinse before using).
Or should I just give up on mixing that and try to find a garden store that has a more spendy pH'd potting mix?
bobman
Member
personally, i would just do a potting mix and perlite. its been a while since i amended soil so i am not the best to ask right now regarding compost. if you have the few extra bucks get the best potting soil you can, but its not needed. i would do 60/40 mix/perlite i used to do 50/50.
i am sure the earth grow would be fine. i am sure it will buffer just fine the key is not saturate the soil so the nutes are not stewing in there. give plants just enough water to last a few days. once the roots have grown into the container you can saturate.
i am sure the earth grow would be fine. i am sure it will buffer just fine the key is not saturate the soil so the nutes are not stewing in there. give plants just enough water to last a few days. once the roots have grown into the container you can saturate.
S
SeaMaiden
Plateus, can you get a hold of any Gardener & Bloom soils? I prefer them over FF any day of the week (for potting soils). Otherwise, the very best soil I can lay my hands on comes from a yard supply upcountry from me (I'm in the Sierra Nevada of Cali) who does their own mix. They're really into soil food web 'technology' and that man knows how to mix his soil! I tried to do my own mix this year, never again, it's worth paying a few more dollars/yard (cubic). His topsoil mix is $33/yd, compost was... $28 I think, and I didn't do such a good job with the amending. Perhaps it's worth making a few phone calls and just getting bulk topsoil.
Also, consider trying rice hulls as an extremely inexpensive, more ecologically responsible, sustainable substitute for perlite. A fraction of the price of perlite, and it simply decomposes, adding, among other things, potassium silicate (about 20% silicate by weight, IIRC). It doesn't float to the top like perlite, either. If you can't get rice hulls, I understand peanut shells are another good substitute. In both scenarios, you're using an already-existing agricultural byproduct.
Only thing about the rice hulls is that when they get wet they feel like shrimp shells, it's kind of irritating.
One other thing--I've found that when trying to get a plant established it's helpful to water/feed from the bottom (use a tray of some sort), and allow it to be wicked up. Also, those drying cycles Bob's telling you about are important to help stimulate the plant to push roots through the soil.
Also, consider trying rice hulls as an extremely inexpensive, more ecologically responsible, sustainable substitute for perlite. A fraction of the price of perlite, and it simply decomposes, adding, among other things, potassium silicate (about 20% silicate by weight, IIRC). It doesn't float to the top like perlite, either. If you can't get rice hulls, I understand peanut shells are another good substitute. In both scenarios, you're using an already-existing agricultural byproduct.
Only thing about the rice hulls is that when they get wet they feel like shrimp shells, it's kind of irritating.
One other thing--I've found that when trying to get a plant established it's helpful to water/feed from the bottom (use a tray of some sort), and allow it to be wicked up. Also, those drying cycles Bob's telling you about are important to help stimulate the plant to push roots through the soil.
PlateausOfLeng
Member
SeaMaiden: Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, I've never seen any Gardener & Bloom soil in my area. I checked their website, and they don't seem to have any distributors near me.
Status Update
So, on 9/26 (4 days before my original post) I watered the 2 plants heavily with un-pHed distilled water. On 9/30 (day of OP) I watered them with Distilled Water + Few drops SuperThrive + Fox Farms Big Bloom & Grow Big @ recommended dosage; Fish Emulsion @ 1/2 strength... pHed to 6.4. I won't be watering them again until they start to droop. EDIT: And I'll be using tap water instead of distilled.
The Pineapple Chunk seems to be hanging in there... I have hope for her. The newest growth is greener than the last set of leaves:
The Afghani Milk seems to be growing more quickly, and yellowing seems to have stopped (or at least slowed):
Status Update
So, on 9/26 (4 days before my original post) I watered the 2 plants heavily with un-pHed distilled water. On 9/30 (day of OP) I watered them with Distilled Water + Few drops SuperThrive + Fox Farms Big Bloom & Grow Big @ recommended dosage; Fish Emulsion @ 1/2 strength... pHed to 6.4. I won't be watering them again until they start to droop. EDIT: And I'll be using tap water instead of distilled.
The Pineapple Chunk seems to be hanging in there... I have hope for her. The newest growth is greener than the last set of leaves:
The Afghani Milk seems to be growing more quickly, and yellowing seems to have stopped (or at least slowed):
Attachments
bobman
Member
ok, second plant is fine. the first plant is all fucked up but do not panic. It will probably just grow through this but i would repot it to help it out faster. right now it is just stewing in the hot mix and with that food you gave it. it has lockout and is frying. you say new growth looks better but to me it does not look that lush. if you really want to help her mix up some new mix and mist it lightly then repot into that. you have to remember all plants are different, even clones can react differently.
PlateausOfLeng
Member
bobman: Early on in the thread (before you arrived) I got advice from a few people to flush, then feed w/ pHed water. It had also been suggested later that I had under-fed them considering their age.
Unfortunately, I gave them this a few hours before you advised me to let them dry out and replant. The new growth on the first plant (Pineapple Chunk) is definitely not "lush", but it is greener than the last set of leaves when they were growing out (slight improvement).
So, when I mix up some new soil and replant... should I do that with the current soil totally dry? Should I break up the soil in order to get the MG off of the rootball, or should I try not to disturb the current soil? As I said, I do not want to move to a bigger container if I can avoid it. I'm going for a Micro-SOG with bonsai mothers... my other 3 (bagseed) mothers (each nearly 3 months old) are doing just fine in their 16oz cups.
Unfortunately, I gave them this a few hours before you advised me to let them dry out and replant. The new growth on the first plant (Pineapple Chunk) is definitely not "lush", but it is greener than the last set of leaves when they were growing out (slight improvement).
So, when I mix up some new soil and replant... should I do that with the current soil totally dry? Should I break up the soil in order to get the MG off of the rootball, or should I try not to disturb the current soil? As I said, I do not want to move to a bigger container if I can avoid it. I'm going for a Micro-SOG with bonsai mothers... my other 3 (bagseed) mothers (each nearly 3 months old) are doing just fine in their 16oz cups.
PlateausOfLeng
Member
Just wanted to give an example of the 16oz mothers I was talking about. Here is my most lovely lady:
Random bagseed. She is nearly 3 months old. I believe that the bleaching and yellowing are caused by how rootbound she is (and/or the soil pH, which up until now I couldn't test). I'm thinking about pruning the rootball a bit once I've got the soil pH dialed in.
Random bagseed. She is nearly 3 months old. I believe that the bleaching and yellowing are caused by how rootbound she is (and/or the soil pH, which up until now I couldn't test). I'm thinking about pruning the rootball a bit once I've got the soil pH dialed in.
Attachments
bobman
Member
not sure what ur asking with the soil. if you pull it out most of the soil should just come off the roots. i believe the roots on that plant will be pretty stunted. right now its just more important to get them into a dryer more stable mix.
yes that yellowing on the other plant is from root bound. plants have trouble up taking nutes properly when root bound. the growth on the plant changes as well notice how the plant is narrow and not bushing out that is from rootbound. plants recover very fast from being rootbound just keep an eye on her.
yes that yellowing on the other plant is from root bound. plants have trouble up taking nutes properly when root bound. the growth on the plant changes as well notice how the plant is narrow and not bushing out that is from rootbound. plants recover very fast from being rootbound just keep an eye on her.
