-
Happy Birthday ICMag! Been 20 years since Gypsy Nirvana created the forum! We are celebrating with a 4/20 Giveaway and by launching a new Patreon tier called "420club". You can read more here.
-
Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!
Natural Farming
- Thread starter h.h.
- Start date
that's the spirit hh, a positive attitude is all you need, and I like the way you avoid personal attacks.
seriously bro, I put a lot of thought into that post, even if it did start with a face palm. Insulting my intelligence is pretty uncouth.
Last edited:
GoneRooty
Member
Very good h.h. you can look up words online, however, you needed to look up the word "decomposer" not "decompose" Two different words there buddy. I know they sound alike, and hell with the exception of the "R" at the end they are even spelled the same. Unfortunately, that extra "R" at the end of the word makes it a whole different word, with a different definition.
Decomposers (saprotrophs if you need the scientific word) are organisms that break down dead or decaying organic matter. (ie, fungi, & worms).
Rabbits are mammals, herbivores, primary consumers because they feed on producers (autotrophs).
I'm sorry you don't understand that nature is science (science we're still trying to figure out entirely), and you don't get to make up words when talking about science or nature. You CAN NOT change words to fit your needs, it just doesn't work. The scientific terms were created for a very specific reason, so that people know EXACTLY what is being discussed. If everyone changed meanings of words like you do, know one would know what you are talking about. Oh wait most of the time no one knows what you are talking about anyway.
Decomposers (saprotrophs if you need the scientific word) are organisms that break down dead or decaying organic matter. (ie, fungi, & worms).
Rabbits are mammals, herbivores, primary consumers because they feed on producers (autotrophs).
I'm sorry you don't understand that nature is science (science we're still trying to figure out entirely), and you don't get to make up words when talking about science or nature. You CAN NOT change words to fit your needs, it just doesn't work. The scientific terms were created for a very specific reason, so that people know EXACTLY what is being discussed. If everyone changed meanings of words like you do, know one would know what you are talking about. Oh wait most of the time no one knows what you are talking about anyway.
I honestly see where you're coming from and understand your point. I also understand your intelligence as well as the box it puts you into. Don't be so anal. I was not using the word in the scientific sense as I am not talking science. I am not going to run get a textbook all the time to tell me what I observe in nature. If you don't understand it, find something else to read.
I dunno GR, I think you can change words and language is always in flux. But it's not easy, nor should it be.
I still feel that the word "compost" has been inappropriately appropriated by some people looking for a way to define humus made from composed materials. In French you have the same root used to describe applesauce. I feel very strongly that the wrong word got picked.
compatible
compose
comprehend
command
complex
communicate
comfort
compassion
computer
and the list goes on. All the words use the same prefix as compost, and in each and every case it has the same meaning - except for the word compost-.
I still feel that the word "compost" has been inappropriately appropriated by some people looking for a way to define humus made from composed materials. In French you have the same root used to describe applesauce. I feel very strongly that the wrong word got picked.
compatible
compose
comprehend
command
complex
communicate
comfort
compassion
computer
and the list goes on. All the words use the same prefix as compost, and in each and every case it has the same meaning - except for the word compost-.
GoneRooty
Member
h.h with all respect buddy, you don't understand any of my intelligence or the box it DOESN'T put me in. If YOU don't understand how to use the correct words and can't communicate effectively without getting defensive when you get corrected, maybe you shouldn't talk about things you aren't sure of.
I believe there is an old saying, "It's better to be silent and thought a fool, than to speak up and remove all doubt."
Maybe you should think about that saying next time you want to try and act like you're smart enough to change words and their meanings.
I believe there is an old saying, "It's better to be silent and thought a fool, than to speak up and remove all doubt."
Maybe you should think about that saying next time you want to try and act like you're smart enough to change words and their meanings.
i see, and I guess your point is
1)you don't have a box
or more likely
2)your box is bigger than my box
GoneRooty
Member
@Mad, I understand what you mean about language being in flux, but scientific terms very rarely change, and if they do it's because of a new scientific discovery (yes h.h. science and nature do mix) for example, discovering that a plant or animal should be classified differently (like when cannabis was changed from Urticaceae to Cannabaceae).
But what h.h. is trying to do is completely different, not only using words improperly but basically trying to reclassify the trophic levels (making consumers into decomposers).
And I can totally understand your problems with the word "compost" which has a secondary meaning of "a composite, a mixture" which is what I'm sure the word started out meaning. But yes, the word was appropriated to mean "decomposed organic matter", and I would venture to guess that most people don't know the original meaning of the word.
Just for reference, the prefixes co-, col-, com-, con-, cor- all indicate with or together modifies the word it's added to.
But what h.h. is trying to do is completely different, not only using words improperly but basically trying to reclassify the trophic levels (making consumers into decomposers).
And I can totally understand your problems with the word "compost" which has a secondary meaning of "a composite, a mixture" which is what I'm sure the word started out meaning. But yes, the word was appropriated to mean "decomposed organic matter", and I would venture to guess that most people don't know the original meaning of the word.
Just for reference, the prefixes co-, col-, com-, con-, cor- all indicate with or together modifies the word it's added to.
I've no intention of getting into the semantics debate. Lots of people know that I'm one of the worse offenders, calling certain protozoa Moustache Pete. I do not think HH committed an unforgiveable, by calling a rabbit a step in the decomposition process. I think that is what he said. Is this not correct? Is 'decomposers' a scientific term 'strictly'?
My main reason for posting is why the heck cannot a drip line be part of natural farming? If I'm a farmer, I can decide to provide irrigation to my plants. This can be done in a number of ways and gravity feed has been a most popular technique. The old timers where I grew up had built catchments and dams and channeled water downhill to their crops using ditches, hand hewn troughs and wooden lines strapped with twine or wire. But why the hell not go to the hardware store and buy some black poly or PVC. Its there isn't it. It is part of our evolutionary process as humans. Sure producing it is kinda nasty and if you want to go anal, then don't buy it. Use wood or...and then keep replacing it every 5 years or go with black poly, the lesser of the evils which will last beyond your life.
As far as pumps being not natural or evil, well maybe one can say the same of horticulture...period. I know how to build a water pump from wood that is powered by the river's current or by the wind but what the heck is wrong with using a solar powered or even electrical powered pump? Better yet make your own methane for fuel. Nature farming is not about shying away from technology. It is about living soil...creating living soil and keeping it that way. It is about denying poisonous inputs that choke the life of the soil and communication with the plant. It is about creating minimal amendments on farm to support the growth of your plants. There are many ways to do this and nature is the instructor. But hell, don't deny the use of a computer or microscope, pump or shovel because you are caught in some 'box' tellng you this is not natural.
My main reason for posting is why the heck cannot a drip line be part of natural farming? If I'm a farmer, I can decide to provide irrigation to my plants. This can be done in a number of ways and gravity feed has been a most popular technique. The old timers where I grew up had built catchments and dams and channeled water downhill to their crops using ditches, hand hewn troughs and wooden lines strapped with twine or wire. But why the hell not go to the hardware store and buy some black poly or PVC. Its there isn't it. It is part of our evolutionary process as humans. Sure producing it is kinda nasty and if you want to go anal, then don't buy it. Use wood or...and then keep replacing it every 5 years or go with black poly, the lesser of the evils which will last beyond your life.
As far as pumps being not natural or evil, well maybe one can say the same of horticulture...period. I know how to build a water pump from wood that is powered by the river's current or by the wind but what the heck is wrong with using a solar powered or even electrical powered pump? Better yet make your own methane for fuel. Nature farming is not about shying away from technology. It is about living soil...creating living soil and keeping it that way. It is about denying poisonous inputs that choke the life of the soil and communication with the plant. It is about creating minimal amendments on farm to support the growth of your plants. There are many ways to do this and nature is the instructor. But hell, don't deny the use of a computer or microscope, pump or shovel because you are caught in some 'box' tellng you this is not natural.
me too
that's just nonsense.i can totally see a rabbit being a "step" in the decomposition process. but not a decomposer.
call be biased but i just hate irrigation tubing. i have to deal with it all the time at work and it is pure bullshit. PURE BULLSHIT i say
This is my part time work as well. My pay being a lifetime supply of pomegranates and a place to run the dogs. When work was slow, I decided to work for karma if that makes any sense...Anyway I'm helping a friend though most of the work is done.me too
i can totally see a rabbit being a "step" in the decomposition process. but not a decomposer.
call be biased but i just hate irrigation tubing. i have to deal with it all the time at work and it is pure bullshit. PURE BULLSHIT i say
We have little trouble with the drips. Mostly just coyotes looking for water. They are gravity feed which may make a difference in plugging up. Think of each drip as a mini oasis. Mind you, while this isn't natural farming, it borrows a lot. Natural farming as Fukuoka presented it isn't natural in the semi arid desert.
We supply the minimal amount of water for young cuttings with a little to help the surrounding water table. As the trees mature, I think I figured they would need around 13 gallons a day in the hottest months. Far more than the well draws. Eventually, they will have to draw their own water.
The trees are heavily mulched with slightly broken down horse manure and recycled tree trimmings. They bring in truckloads for free. The mulch is laid down in interconnecting rows between the trees creating stripes of mulch with stripes of open desert. At this point, I'm suggesting sowing buckwheat in the open area. I'd like to see a chicken tractor as well. If you let them run, they don't last long.
The fields are laid out checkerboard fashion with naturally heavy shrub on the counterparts.
Touching on the well. Probably as natural as one can get other than actual natural sources or hand pumping. DC motors are extremely efficient and are low power. Five small surplus panels supply around 200 watts of power. They work the best when you need water the most. As the recession gets worst or where it is already at starvation levels, water is and will be a key factor. Off the grid wells are most important.
While I doubt any of us are natural farmers, keeping it as our goal will reap many benefits.
Natural farming in the desert involves growing desert plants.
Irrigating deserts and irrigation in general is on a collision course with the human need for drinking water in many places.
Digging for water is a very temporary fix. Groundwater is not limitless, and sources of replenishment are dwindling.
Such as pomegranates, which are from the Middle East or buckwheat, which grows wild here.
Admittedly, only borrowing from the concepts of natural farming. The drips are temporary until deep roots are established. There is far less water used with drips than with most other forms of irrigation. The water is returned close to the source as well. There is no runoff.No leaching of chemicals to contaminate it.
Food is equally important to water, though without water there is no food. Wells also provide drinking water. While not a fix all in all situations and only a temporary fix in others, tell it to someone in need of water.
In our case, the land is on top of 2 underground lakes backed up by a 11,000' mountain, with sand suspended on top. Many deserts are created as such and the population would benefit from such setups..
Admittedly, only borrowing from the concepts of natural farming. The drips are temporary until deep roots are established. There is far less water used with drips than with most other forms of irrigation. The water is returned close to the source as well. There is no runoff.No leaching of chemicals to contaminate it.
Food is equally important to water, though without water there is no food. Wells also provide drinking water. While not a fix all in all situations and only a temporary fix in others, tell it to someone in need of water.
In our case, the land is on top of 2 underground lakes backed up by a 11,000' mountain, with sand suspended on top. Many deserts are created as such and the population would benefit from such setups..
sounds like a pretty cool setup hh.
any succulent food crops going? I loves me some prickly pear with eggs.
any succulent food crops going? I loves me some prickly pear with eggs.
Last edited:
There's some in the open sections. Not a lot of diversity in food crops other than personal with a lot given away.Separate from the orchard.I would like to see some agave , the trick would be finding the market or learning to self process. For cactus, Burpee's barbless has extremely large fruits with no thorns to speak of.
all you need is some barrels and a still hh, and you'll hopefully not blow yourself up but rather make some nice tequila and alcohol extractions of your organic buds and trim.
