Just to make sure I understand correctly now.
The above product has been discontinued and now to use HAPPY FROG Fruit and Flower in its place ?
S_a_H
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Just to make sure I understand correctly now.
The above product has been discontinued and now to use HAPPY FROG Fruit and Flower in its place ?
S_a_H
I
IceColdCrickets
Yes, it would appear to be the case, but remember BLACK GOLD brand ROSE and FLOWER! I have had better results for some reason using the Black Gold then the HAPPY FROG, even tho FoxFarm says that Happy Frog is the same as Peace of Mind.
My theory about why i had problems with the Happy Frog, and not the Peace of Mind,, if you read that email from FoxFarm it says that they powdered the mix now,, which is true the mix in HF is much more fine then the POM. So when I made the TEA with HF it released more nutrients into the water then I wanted as there is much more surface area for the water to make contact and disolve, compare to the chunky mix of the POM. Simply put ,, you must use less of the HF to get the desired results.
But once again , Black Gold brand Rose and Flower is the only true substitute for the POM. Just use it like you would the POM and you will have happy huge dank plants!
http://blackgold.bz/BG_past_articles/Featured_Fertilizers_Feb09.html
I hope that clears it up, this method of growing is the most simple, set it and forget process I know of that yeilds such good results. So please if you have any questions please continue to ask. I want everyone to enjoy pure Organic buds!
ICC
0
02020
Hey ICC awesome thread, def different way to look at the potential of af's
got a couple quick qs for ya
how many girlys do run per square foot? and do u run the same # all the way thru?
It seems like you run as many 5.5 pots as will fit the whole way thru, but dont some of the bossier girls block out the light from their sisters? is that not a problem
i'm thinkin bout putting a af cab in my grow room and wonderin about plant density
oh ya and what did your total yeild wind up being? from how many girlies?
thanx man I really appreciate this thread.
got a couple quick qs for ya
how many girlys do run per square foot? and do u run the same # all the way thru?
It seems like you run as many 5.5 pots as will fit the whole way thru, but dont some of the bossier girls block out the light from their sisters? is that not a problem
i'm thinkin bout putting a af cab in my grow room and wonderin about plant density
oh ya and what did your total yeild wind up being? from how many girlies?
thanx man I really appreciate this thread.
I have a question that you AF experts might be able to help me with. BTW very solid thread ICC and others already so far. As a total noob to AFs i have already learned a lot. I never really considered running them before but i would lke to learn as much as i can and i already see a few potential uses for them. (Mid summer outdoor grow anyone??)
Anyways, my question is this.. hopefully some of you can eleaborate...
When you buy a pack of AFs for example say Blue Streak which is selling on the bay for around $63 right now, you get 10 seeds. Those 10 seeds are great no doubt but really you cant do much for a grow with that. Say 5 are male, ok when flowering starts you cull the males, 5 females. No cloning because they would just start to flower. The yield isnt that high for such quick plants. But i get it, they definitly have their place. So my question is, Should the first run with AFs be a seed run to get enough beans to do a full grow? so get your 10 beans do and open pollenation, save the pollen from the best males, do another quick run possibily, hit up all the best females... One or 2 cycles of flowering and pollenation to get 100% (or close) true AFs to do your real grow with.
Only then can i imagine that you would be able to pull and solid weight from AFs. If you did have 1000 seeds. I can see very well the application.
Anyone have an idea? I am pretty interested but total ignorant about AFs. I am hoping to learn so please take it easy on the new guy..
Anyways, my question is this.. hopefully some of you can eleaborate...
When you buy a pack of AFs for example say Blue Streak which is selling on the bay for around $63 right now, you get 10 seeds. Those 10 seeds are great no doubt but really you cant do much for a grow with that. Say 5 are male, ok when flowering starts you cull the males, 5 females. No cloning because they would just start to flower. The yield isnt that high for such quick plants. But i get it, they definitly have their place. So my question is, Should the first run with AFs be a seed run to get enough beans to do a full grow? so get your 10 beans do and open pollenation, save the pollen from the best males, do another quick run possibily, hit up all the best females... One or 2 cycles of flowering and pollenation to get 100% (or close) true AFs to do your real grow with.
Only then can i imagine that you would be able to pull and solid weight from AFs. If you did have 1000 seeds. I can see very well the application.
Anyone have an idea? I am pretty interested but total ignorant about AFs. I am hoping to learn so please take it easy on the new guy..
If you have the ability and willingness, I would definitely make the first run a seed run.
If you are growing 100% AF's and you breed two of those plants together, then all the seeds you make will be 100% AFs (meaning you don't necessarily have to do two runs)
If you are growing 100% AF's and you breed two of those plants together, then all the seeds you make will be 100% AFs (meaning you don't necessarily have to do two runs)
Yes, it would appear to be the case, but remember BLACK GOLD brand ROSE and FLOWER! I have had better results for some reason using the Black Gold then the HAPPY FROG, even tho FoxFarm says that Happy Frog is the same as Peace of Mind.
My theory about why i had problems with the Happy Frog, and not the Peace of Mind,, if you read that email from FoxFarm it says that they powdered the mix now,, which is true the mix in HF is much more fine then the POM. So when I made the TEA with HF it released more nutrients into the water then I wanted as there is much more surface area for the water to make contact and disolve, compare to the chunky mix of the POM. Simply put ,, you must use less of the HF to get the desired results.
But once again , Black Gold brand Rose and Flower is the only true substitute for the POM. Just use it like you would the POM and you will have happy huge dank plants!
http://blackgold.bz/BG_past_articles/Featured_Fertilizers_Feb09.html
I hope that clears it up, this method of growing is the most simple, set it and forget process I know of that yeilds such good results. So please if you have any questions please continue to ask. I want everyone to enjoy pure Organic buds!
ICC
I was lucky and picked up 3 boxes of the other before it was sold out and gone.
S_a_H
I
IceColdCrickets
With most AFs I run them in SOG style, putting 4 FEMALES per sq ft. If you are running Regular male/female seeds you will need to start at least double to get the female numbers to fill in the space. You do this by starting them in 16 oz beer cups until they show sex, then you transplant FEMALES to the 5.5 x 5.5 square pots, remember you must transplant when the majority of the plants show sex, dont wait to long or they can get stunted.
Yes there is a bit of crowding, you might need to tuck a leaf or 2 under so it doesn't block a main top bud or something, but AFs pull most of thier wieght in the top bud formation, I cut off the first lower branches that will never amount to anything in the first place. If you can find AF strains that dont branch at all (working on some now) then you will have no problems with the spacing. The other reason that I pack them in so tightly, it is to ensure high yield with more smaller plants yeilding more highest quality top buds then trying to make the AF plants bigger and trying to yield a lot from branches and lower popcorn buds.
Under one 400 watt HPS you can put 64 Flowering Females in 8 10x20 inch trays = 40" x 40" area. Even if you only pull 7 grams each plant which is easy. You will pull a pound under the 400 Watt HPS. So, 64 x 7g dry = 448g dry. Now using the ICC Organic TEA method, you should pull more then 7g each plant, so you could lower your plant numbers to 48 and still pull a pound when you get at least 9.3g per plant, again easy.
To get 64 flowering Females, each 10x20 inch tray holds 15, 16oz beer cups, (make sure you poke holes for drainage), x 8 trays in the space = 120 Reg. seeds to start. You should get more females then you will be able to put in the space, so you will be able to pick and choose the best ones to finish out.
NOW this all changes when you have FEM AF SEEDS! Feminized AF seeds are the closest thing to having AF clones and you just plant them in the 5.5 x 5.5 inch pots, follow the feeding/water schedule and harvest your buds 60-70 days later. I know FEM seeds are expensive, but there are ways to make your own and I know some people that are working on making FEM AF seeds for this type of growing more affordable for everyone to be able to enjoy.
Hope that helps
ICC.
C
cork144
hey i just had a flick over this thread and its brilliant, unforcantly i cant grow anymore but i would have loved to have gone organics.
what was your final yeild under 160watts?
this is a brilliant thread your a very capable grower!
what was your final yeild under 160watts?
this is a brilliant thread your a very capable grower!
I
IceColdCrickets
I have a question that you AF experts might be able to help me with. BTW very solid thread ICC and others already so far. As a total noob to AFs i have already learned a lot. I never really considered running them before but i would lke to learn as much as i can and i already see a few potential uses for them. (Mid summer outdoor grow anyone??)
Anyways, my question is this.. hopefully some of you can eleaborate...
When you buy a pack of AFs for example say Blue Streak which is selling on the bay for around $63 right now, you get 10 seeds. Those 10 seeds are great no doubt but really you cant do much for a grow with that. Say 5 are male, ok when flowering starts you cull the males, 5 females. No cloning because they would just start to flower. The yield isnt that high for such quick plants. But i get it, they definitly have their place. So my question is, Should the first run with AFs be a seed run to get enough beans to do a full grow? so get your 10 beans do and open pollenation, save the pollen from the best males, do another quick run possibily, hit up all the best females... One or 2 cycles of flowering and pollenation to get 100% (or close) true AFs to do your real grow with.
Only then can i imagine that you would be able to pull and solid weight from AFs. If you did have 1000 seeds. I can see very well the application.
Anyone have an idea? I am pretty interested but total ignorant about AFs. I am hoping to learn so please take it easy on the new guy..
Simple, Blue Streak and other 100% AFs are stable for the AF trait , so all you have to do is inbreed and you will get 100% AF seeds. So buy your 10 seeds and do a seed run, each female can produce 200+ seeds when pollenated at the correct time. So, you will have more then enough seed to play with for your 2nd run and so on.
Making Feminized AF seed is the key to get easy big yeild success with AFs. Yes, I make my own, and before you ask, NO I CANT' share that info with anyone.
ICC
I
IceColdCrickets
Thanks bro, sorry you cant grow anymore meds, this last grow was under 2 chambers of 160watts each for a total of 320watts of 4ft flouro light , dry trimmed bud yield was 170g from 29 plants, so 0.53 g per watt. , NOT the worlds best by any means but this was super crowded with very little Flouro light, to tell you the truth I was surprized that it yeilded that much. As stated before under a real grow light you will pull MUCH MORE.
BRING IT ON!!
I thought you guys were going to have harder Questions,,, I got the answers BRING IT!! I'm feeling frisky!! Questions don't have to be about this method, I dont mind getting into a nice discussion, about breeding and such, experimental growing is my joy in life.ICC.
SWEET post 420!! excuse me while I toke!!
With most AFs I run them in SOG style, putting 4 FEMALES per sq ft. If you are running Regular male/female seeds you will need to start at least double to get the female numbers to fill in the space. You do this by starting them in 16 oz beer cups until they show sex, then you transplant FEMALES to the 5.5 x 5.5 square pots, remember you must transplant when the majority of the plants show sex, dont wait to long or they can get stunted.
Yes there is a bit of crowding, you might need to tuck a leaf or 2 under so it doesn't block a main top bud or something, but AFs pull most of thier wieght in the top bud formation, I cut off the first lower branches that will never amount to anything in the first place. If you can find AF strains that dont branch at all (working on some now) then you will have no problems with the spacing. The other reason that I pack them in so tightly, it is to ensure high yield with more smaller plants yeilding more highest quality top buds then trying to make the AF plants bigger and trying to yield a lot from branches and lower popcorn buds.
Under one 400 watt HPS you can put 64 Flowering Females in 8 10x20 inch trays = 40" x 40" area. Even if you only pull 7 grams each plant which is easy. You will pull a pound under the 400 Watt HPS. So, 64 x 7g dry = 448g dry. Now using the ICC Organic TEA method, you should pull more then 7g each plant, so you could lower your plant numbers to 48 and still pull a pound when you get at least 9.3g per plant, again easy.
To get 64 flowering Females, each 10x20 inch tray holds 15, 16oz beer cups, (make sure you poke holes for drainage), x 8 trays in the space = 120 Reg. seeds to start. You should get more females then you will be able to put in the space, so you will be able to pick and choose the best ones to finish out.
NOW this all changes when you have FEM AF SEEDS! Feminized AF seeds are the closest thing to having AF clones and you just plant them in the 5.5 x 5.5 inch pots, follow the feeding/water schedule and harvest your buds 60-70 days later. I know FEM seeds are expensive, but there are ways to make your own and I know some people that are working on making FEM AF seeds for this type of growing more affordable for everyone to be able to enjoy.
Hope that helps
Wow, thanks ICC. Both of your answers (to myself and 02020) were spot on dead balls accurate, straight and easy to read. After this thread and these answers i think i understand AF 100x more then i did yesterday. Also, impressed with the idea that making F2s (breeding with a 100% AF strain) you can create countless seeds for a midsummer crop. Really cool idea. I think the funnest part would be walking through a field of AFs pulling males
Thanks!
0
02020
thanx icc ur answers were most def helpful,
so much so it looks like im gonna be headin to home depot to begin construction on a af cab for my grow room,
any recomendations on commercially avaible strains for your sog method
so much so it looks like im gonna be headin to home depot to begin construction on a af cab for my grow room,
any recomendations on commercially avaible strains for your sog method
I
IceColdCrickets
you want to keep branching down, so you dont have to cut off so many, but any AF strain will work in the SOG setup just cut off the bottom branches later on when they become apparently annoying.
Good strains to choose:
Mossy's JEMS, compact plants, purple buds, good indica type high.
LR#2, kinda branchy, very STINKY!! SKUNK!
Master Low, very compact plant, great flavor.
Diesel Ryder, consistant good yeild.
Auto AK-47, Mdanzig, SaH version. very good stuff.
There are more but those are a few you can start with.
Good strains to choose:
Mossy's JEMS, compact plants, purple buds, good indica type high.
LR#2, kinda branchy, very STINKY!! SKUNK!
Master Low, very compact plant, great flavor.
Diesel Ryder, consistant good yeild.
Auto AK-47, Mdanzig, SaH version. very good stuff.
There are more but those are a few you can start with.
0
02020
thanx icc,
well i jus ordered two packs of jds lr2, a lumatek 250hps and am assembling my af cab as we speak (3ft x 2ft x 4.5ft) so I should be ready to take af plunge shortly, which is good considering i just harvested 2 outdoor iced grapefruits. I'll keep ya posted as things progress and thanks for the great thread.
well i jus ordered two packs of jds lr2, a lumatek 250hps and am assembling my af cab as we speak (3ft x 2ft x 4.5ft) so I should be ready to take af plunge shortly, which is good considering i just harvested 2 outdoor iced grapefruits. I'll keep ya posted as things progress and thanks for the great thread.
Looks like I wasn't so lucky. I went by today to pickup my POM F&F and the newbie sold it.
The guy that owns the store works it alone until this week when he finally hired someone. So when I called about the POM stuff he just put it behind the counter with no name because he is always there welp the new guy sold it.
So the owner is trying to track me down a couple of bixes but its looking like I am going to have to go with the Happy Frog stuff.
S_a_H
C
cyber echo
How about using coco with organic hydro ferts ? Shouldn't that qualify as (or act like) an "organic" grow, yet still be controllable like a normal coco grow ?
I've spent ages looking for suitable soil here, and no matter whats written on the back as specifications they always seem to disappoint. As a result I'm only using coco right now.
Plus, the plants grow like crazy in coco (with 30% perlite).
I've spent ages looking for suitable soil here, and no matter whats written on the back as specifications they always seem to disappoint. As a result I'm only using coco right now.
Plus, the plants grow like crazy in coco (with 30% perlite).
I
IceColdCrickets
yep, seems like you spoke to soon... damn newbies!!
try to find the Black Gold Rose and Flower at your local nursery. Or order it from thier website.
I will be making a few updates over the next few days. i will let everyone know what is added.
ICC
I just went with the Happy Frog stuff since it was right there and easy to get. So i'll just take it easy on the stuff and do some lighter strength mix's when I use it at first.
I also got my FF Ocean Soil along with a 6 inch cooltube setup and a new 600w HPS bulb for it and some 2 gallon pots. I am going to run 4 rows of 4 pots under the light on 22/2. ( I'll have those auto affie at this point and I don't want them to flower. )
I am going to run 4 Blue Streak and 12 Sour 60 what MD calls the ( BlueBerry Pheno ).
S_a_H
I also got my FF Ocean Soil along with a 6 inch cooltube setup and a new 600w HPS bulb for it and some 2 gallon pots. I am going to run 4 rows of 4 pots under the light on 22/2. ( I'll have those auto affie at this point and I don't want them to flower. )
I am going to run 4 Blue Streak and 12 Sour 60 what MD calls the ( BlueBerry Pheno ).
S_a_H
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