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my rant about covid19 "vaccine" ...

BudToaster

Well-known member
Veteran
I consider myself informed and I do not consent to being injected by this vaccine.

The reason I feel I can be so cavaliere about a treatment that is purported to be the necessary life saver, is that I am not at risk – for two reasons, first I had covid19 at the beginning of the pandemic (based on earliest described symptomology) and survived – which I perceived at the time to be a bad flu, and second I have a healthy immune system – as verified by the first reason. My immune health is my daily priority – including adequate exercise, proper nutrition, and quality food sourcing. It is not an accident that my BMI is 21. I do not think the risk of vaccination is worth the 0.7 to 1.1 absolute risk reduction offered by mRNA treatment. My health has been my priority for the last 40 years – well, I should have started resistance training before age 65, since muscles don’t grow much after that (evidently). I’m chronologically 73, biological age calculator says 53.

My rejection of the mRNA technology is in four areas of concern:
  1. the technology
  2. the ingredients
  3. the manufacturing process
  4. the cold chain distribution and dispensing of the product
Regarding the “vaccine” (a word that according to CDC means conferring sterilizing immunity, which none of the covid19 shots do), I find the idea of marking my own cells with a potent antigen (unless and until the spike proteins shed), thus creating a conjugate vaccine, raises possibilities for autoimmune disease. In short, I find this mRNA technology abhorrent. Clever, no doubt about it, but just wrong. Where is the Union of Concerned Doctors with an RNA Doomsday Clock? The word that comes to mind is “hubris”. One technology used that I found most striking ( I didn’t realize it exists) is “codon sequence optimization” – I try to balance that concept against evolutionary optimization and I just see hubris writ large. That is, knowing as little as we know about the deep structure cellular mechanics, what could possibly go wrong?

I have concerns about the polyethylene glycol used to mask the lipid nanoparticle since PEG is not biodegradable – where does it accumulate? The studies I have read indicate trouble. How is it going to be expelled from the body? Clinical studies in the past have found it to be too toxic for continued use as was desired for long term treatment.

I have concerns about the yield of the manufacturing process – it is horrendously complicated, according to the descriptions I have read. When I am offered mRNA manufacturing services there is mention of “high yield” – 70%, 80%, 90% purity? – I guess cost is the determinant. In this case, I wonder what and how much flawed mRNA is in the vial, besides the desired mRNA. Dispensary cannabis comes with a lab analysis, but not these vaccines. When the Stanford group reverse engineered the Moderna product, they used partial RNA bits from the vial – that was what CDC said was okay to do. So what is actually in the shot?

U of Mass Amherst has released a study on exactly this topic: High salt transcription of DNA co-tethered with T7 RNA polymerase to beads generates increased yields of highly pure RNA - Journal of Biological Chemistry (jbc.org) … just add salt! Who knew?

I have concerns about the cold chain – does the vial ingredient degrade with marginal parameters?, what is measured?, what is acceptable? – especially since it is a product for profit. And how well trained are the people doing injections? – it is designed to be intramuscular, and should not enter the blood stream directly – yet the needle is not aspirated to check for a vein location before injecting. Intravenous injection has been suggested as a cause of the blood clots, but I doubt that is the whole story.

I am concerned when the main stream media is so careless in their reporting of the medicine and science surrounding the pandemic. For just one example: decreasing antibody titers does not mean the immune system response was inadequate, since there are studies (preprints) that indicate T cell and B cell remodeling for the spike protein antigen. As I understand how the body evolved to function, when the antigen is gone, the antibodies will cease being produced. The body is an engineering marvel and it must, by evolution, be very efficient. Immune system proteins are only manufactured for actual threats, not as prophylaxis. As another example: the virus is said to be “sneaky” and that it “tries to evade” the immune system – I don’t think that characterizing evolutionary pressure as volition on the part of the virus is a useful message. Reality is far more scary.

I am concerned by the messaging from the medical establishment, advancing the pharmaceutical interests above the health of the people. Where are the doctors, other than on YouTube (and Mercola), who stand up and say healthy people are not at risk of covid19 (for the most part (99.4% don’t die according to WHO), based on the epidemiology to date) and here is how to lose weight and get fit? A full 70% of Americans are unfit – why not engage on this message? Pharmaceuticals are not health, they are treatment. More testing would help defining the real threat of the pandemic. This is a solved problem – Joe Rogan has been giving his guests a 15 minute covid test for over a year (Spotify must love Joe more than CDC loves me).

When I see wrong, poorly articulated and missing analysis I have to wonder, what is the agenda?. I don’t travel in the circles that can answer that question, at which point I revert to the principle that has gotten me this far – I just don’t do drugs (unless I know the chemist). I do not trust pharmaceutical companies – they have the wrong priorities, so I plan to sit this one out.

Oh, I have no doubt I can tolerate and survive an mRNA treatment, but it is clear from the messaging that this is just the beginning of a sustained vaccine program. Yearly influenza shot + covid booster is already being floated in the media. A 20-valent shot that will be protecting against everything they can think of right now. As presented constantly in the media, “the platform” (lipid nanoparticle delivery vesicle carrying a reconfigurable protein-coding mRNA) is more important than health. I draw the line right here – no shot, no boosters. This is just chasing the antibiotic resistance disaster. I want to train my immune system to be effective.

If there is an immunizing vaccine – a true vaccine – I will reconsider my stand depending on the antigens floating around and my perceived risk – and I do foresee serious trouble. I think we will see that cyber hackers are nothing compared to protein hackers. The equipment is cheap, the science is fully documented, google has released the protein folding solution – what could possibly go wrong? Did I mention the “mRNA as a Service” vendors? They even put on the 5’ and 3’ caps to complete the sequence. Or maybe a DNA printer is the technology that will be preferred (with a little salt added). You should see the ad feed I get after visiting so many medical websites.

I have spent 4 to 8 hours a day since Feb 2020 studying biochem, metabolism, nutrition, exercise, fitness. Probably in excess of 2000 hours in reading peer-reviewed medical studies, preprints and watching YT lectures. There are a lot of very poor medical studies. Similarly I have studied virology, vaccine technology, and messaging, probably for 1000 hours. I am an engineer and I understand what I read. I haven’t mastered the jargon since I don’t use it much so I can’t be as articulate as I would like, but I understand the principles. My driving biochem passion is mitochondria, but I have recently started studying ribosomes, when I realized that they are really massively-parallel Turing machines. I am a software engineer by training and occupation which is why I find cellular biology to be so fascinating. mRNA is simply a software program – more like a subroutine if only one protein is coded for. I am intrigued by the possibilities.

[/rant]

That is my position about the covid19 mRNA treatment in a summary form. Thank-you for taking the time to read it. I would appreciate any comments you might care to offer.

tl;dr - my body, my choice, no jab.
 

Nannymouse

Well-known member
You seem intelligent, informed, articulate, educated. I am not here to try to change your mind. But, i do wonder if you have a 'plan B', in case you are overestimating your body's ability to withstand the new variants?
 

BudToaster

Well-known member
Veteran
You seem intelligent, informed, articulate, educated. I am not here to try to change your mind. But, i do wonder if you have a 'plan B', in case you are overestimating your body's ability to withstand the new variants?

well, i plan to just die. at home. don't want to stress the overburdened hospital system (the second leading cause of death).
 

flylowgethigh

Non-growing Lurker
ICMag Donor
I too plan to die. Someday. Of something. Meanwhile, I think I will LIVE!

Not in fear, not under the boot of commie guv thugs, and I will decide what I put in my body.

Unless the commie thugs try to insert some copper and lead.
 

Amynamous

Active member
BudToaster Your concerns are well thought out. I will address two of your concerns and share a couple of personal thoughts.
Polyethylene glycol is an ingredient in foods and laxatives. If you’ve ever had a colonoscopy, and you were told to take laxatives, i bet peg was an ingredient. I am not familiar enough with it, but if it were as toxic as people make it out to be, it wouldn’t be allowed in foods. Also, the vaccine dosage is very small. Iirc, it’s 0.3 ml and it’s not the main ingredient, so the amount of peg within the vaccine is very, very small.

The people who administer the vaccine have received training in giving various injections as part of their professional training, ie, doctors, nurses, pharmacists, pharmacy technicians, physician assistants, etc. At the vaccination clinic I’ve been helping at, sometimes a large group of students(med school, pharm school nursing school) will come in and give the injections. But they have received extensive training and are supervised. I believe the risk of injecting the vaccine directly into the blood stream is extremely small. I believe the risk of hitting bone or your shoulder joint is a much greater risk, and i try to direct my aim appropriately.

In the hospital setting, we are strongly encouraged to get the flu vaccine every year. A few people will opt out and are required to wear masks for the duration of flu season so they don’t infect others. On an individual basis, the flu vaccines are not really effective at keeping us from getting the flu. But as a group, they are effective at keeping us from spreading the flu to our patients. This is part of creating herd immunity and is the real intent of mass vaccinations. I wish this last part were emphasized more, but in our “western” society, we are are more concerned about me, me and me than we are about society as a whole. Public health is not about keeping me or you safe and healthy, it’s about keeping those around you (the public) safe and healthy.

Lastly, please read about ACE2 receptor sites. I believe the key to this virus is the ACE2 receptors. Although the virus spreads through respirations, it actually behaves more like a vascular virus. The ACE2 receptors are found within the vascular structures in our body such as blood vessels and organs such as the lungs, heart, kidneys, etc. The spike protein adheres to the ACE2 receptors, enters the cell and goes to work making copies of itself by the thousands, until the cell is destroyed and the baby virus particles are released. C19 is the only virus infecting humans to enter via ACE2 receptors and is one of the reasons the virus is so dangerous and can lead to lasting internal damage long after the virus has been defeated.

I suspect that the ACE2 receptors change as we age, allowing for easier attachment by the spike protein in older adults. It’s just a personal theory and i have no proof, but it does explain why older folks are more susceptible. And we age, our immune systems become weaker too, making infection more of a risk. So even though you have the physical fitness of someone twenty years younger(congratulations!), the same may not be true of your ACE2 receptors.

I wish you the best of luck with your decision,
 

imiubu

Well-known member
I consider myself informed and I do not consent to being injected by this vaccine.

The reason I feel I can be so cavaliere about a treatment that is purported to be the necessary life saver, is that I am not at risk – for two reasons, first I had covid19 at the beginning of the pandemic (based on earliest described symptomology) and survived – which I perceived at the time to be a bad flu, and second I have a healthy immune system – as verified by the first reason. My immune health is my daily priority – including adequate exercise, proper nutrition, and quality food sourcing. It is not an accident that my BMI is 21. I do not think the risk of vaccination is worth the 0.7 to 1.1 absolute risk reduction offered by mRNA treatment. My health has been my priority for the last 40 years – well, I should have started resistance training before age 65, since muscles don’t grow much after that (evidently). I’m chronologically 73, biological age calculator says 53.

My rejection of the mRNA technology is in four areas of concern:
  1. the technology
  2. the ingredients
  3. the manufacturing process
  4. the cold chain distribution and dispensing of the product
Regarding the “vaccine” (a word that according to CDC means conferring sterilizing immunity, which none of the covid19 shots do), I find the idea of marking my own cells with a potent antigen (unless and until the spike proteins shed), thus creating a conjugate vaccine, raises possibilities for autoimmune disease. In short, I find this mRNA technology abhorrent. Clever, no doubt about it, but just wrong. Where is the Union of Concerned Doctors with an RNA Doomsday Clock? The word that comes to mind is “hubris”. One technology used that I found most striking ( I didn’t realize it exists) is “codon sequence optimization” – I try to balance that concept against evolutionary optimization and I just see hubris writ large. That is, knowing as little as we know about the deep structure cellular mechanics, what could possibly go wrong?

I have concerns about the polyethylene glycol used to mask the lipid nanoparticle since PEG is not biodegradable – where does it accumulate? The studies I have read indicate trouble. How is it going to be expelled from the body? Clinical studies in the past have found it to be too toxic for continued use as was desired for long term treatment.

I have concerns about the yield of the manufacturing process – it is horrendously complicated, according to the descriptions I have read. When I am offered mRNA manufacturing services there is mention of “high yield” – 70%, 80%, 90% purity? – I guess cost is the determinant. In this case, I wonder what and how much flawed mRNA is in the vial, besides the desired mRNA. Dispensary cannabis comes with a lab analysis, but not these vaccines. When the Stanford group reverse engineered the Moderna product, they used partial RNA bits from the vial – that was what CDC said was okay to do. So what is actually in the shot?

U of Mass Amherst has released a study on exactly this topic: High salt transcription of DNA co-tethered with T7 RNA polymerase to beads generates increased yields of highly pure RNA - Journal of Biological Chemistry (jbc.org) … just add salt! Who knew?

I have concerns about the cold chain – does the vial ingredient degrade with marginal parameters?, what is measured?, what is acceptable? – especially since it is a product for profit. And how well trained are the people doing injections? – it is designed to be intramuscular, and should not enter the blood stream directly – yet the needle is not aspirated to check for a vein location before injecting. Intravenous injection has been suggested as a cause of the blood clots, but I doubt that is the whole story.

I am concerned when the main stream media is so careless in their reporting of the medicine and science surrounding the pandemic. For just one example: decreasing antibody titers does not mean the immune system response was inadequate, since there are studies (preprints) that indicate T cell and B cell remodeling for the spike protein antigen. As I understand how the body evolved to function, when the antigen is gone, the antibodies will cease being produced. The body is an engineering marvel and it must, by evolution, be very efficient. Immune system proteins are only manufactured for actual threats, not as prophylaxis. As another example: the virus is said to be “sneaky” and that it “tries to evade” the immune system – I don’t think that characterizing evolutionary pressure as volition on the part of the virus is a useful message. Reality is far more scary.

I am concerned by the messaging from the medical establishment, advancing the pharmaceutical interests above the health of the people. Where are the doctors, other than on YouTube (and *******), who stand up and say healthy people are not at risk of covid19 (for the most part (99.4% don’t die according to WHO), based on the epidemiology to date) and here is how to lose weight and get fit? A full 70% of Americans are unfit – why not engage on this message? Pharmaceuticals are not health, they are treatment. More testing would help defining the real threat of the pandemic. This is a solved problem – Joe Rogan has been giving his guests a 15 minute covid test for over a year (Spotify must love Joe more than CDC loves me).

When I see wrong, poorly articulated and missing analysis I have to wonder, what is the agenda?. I don’t travel in the circles that can answer that question, at which point I revert to the principle that has gotten me this far – I just don’t do drugs (unless I know the chemist). I do not trust pharmaceutical companies – they have the wrong priorities, so I plan to sit this one out.

Oh, I have no doubt I can tolerate and survive an mRNA treatment, but it is clear from the messaging that this is just the beginning of a sustained vaccine program. Yearly influenza shot + covid booster is already being floated in the media. A 20-valent shot that will be protecting against everything they can think of right now. As presented constantly in the media, “the platform” (lipid nanoparticle delivery vesicle carrying a reconfigurable protein-coding mRNA) is more important than health. I draw the line right here – no shot, no boosters. This is just chasing the antibiotic resistance disaster. I want to train my immune system to be effective.

If there is an immunizing vaccine – a true vaccine – I will reconsider my stand depending on the antigens floating around and my perceived risk – and I do foresee serious trouble. I think we will see that cyber hackers are nothing compared to protein hackers. The equipment is cheap, the science is fully documented, google has released the protein folding solution – what could possibly go wrong? Did I mention the “mRNA as a Service” vendors? They even put on the 5’ and 3’ caps to complete the sequence. Or maybe a DNA printer is the technology that will be preferred (with a little salt added). You should see the ad feed I get after visiting so many medical websites.

I have spent 4 to 8 hours a day since Feb 2020 studying biochem, metabolism, nutrition, exercise, fitness. Probably in excess of 2000 hours in reading peer-reviewed medical studies, preprints and watching YT lectures. There are a lot of very poor medical studies. Similarly I have studied virology, vaccine technology, and messaging, probably for 1000 hours. I am an engineer and I understand what I read. I haven’t mastered the jargon since I don’t use it much so I can’t be as articulate as I would like, but I understand the principles. My driving biochem passion is mitochondria, but I have recently started studying ribosomes, when I realized that they are really massively-parallel Turing machines. I am a software engineer by training and occupation which is why I find cellular biology to be so fascinating. mRNA is simply a software program – more like a subroutine if only one protein is coded for. I am intrigued by the possibilities.

[/rant]

That is my position about the covid19 mRNA treatment in a summary form. Thank-you for taking the time to read it. I would appreciate any comments you might care to offer.

tl;dr - my body, my choice, no jab.


I appreciate such a well thought out/ researched and articulated opinion/ summary.
Thank you for taking time to present it to us.
You are not alone in your conclusions/ decisions; pertaining to this 'vaccine'.

~ My body, my choice, no jab ~
 

BudToaster

Well-known member
Veteran
If your beef is with mRNA, why would you not just get the Astrazeneca vax and not have to gamble on your theory?

there is no effective difference between the mRNA of Pfizer/Moderna and the DNA of J&J and Astrazeneca - i.e. infect my cells to produce the spikes. it's not just the mRNA, it is the technology itself - too soon for world-wide vaccinations. and no monkey virus for me. DNA + monkey virus was probably chosen due to licensing/patent issues = more money, more money, more money - particularly when the mass scale testing is EUAed.

which theory do i want to gamble on? not big pharma, that's for fucking sure.

okay, okay, i do lidocaine for dental work and lidocaine + epinephrine for melanoma/squamous cell carcinoma re-excisions (all my adolescent sunburns are coming to get me). but that's it.

and again, it is not just one or two jabs, it is this yearly booster shot and the reconfiguration of all injections to be mRNA tech from here on out.
 

BudToaster

Well-known member
Veteran
BudToaster Your concerns are well thought out. I will address two of your concerns and share a couple of personal thoughts.
Polyethylene glycol is an ingredient in foods and laxatives. If you’ve ever had a colonoscopy, and you were told to take laxatives, i bet peg was an ingredient. I am not familiar enough with it, but if it were as toxic as people make it out to be, it wouldn’t be allowed in foods. Also, the vaccine dosage is very small. Iirc, it’s 0.3 ml and it’s not the main ingredient, so the amount of peg within the vaccine is very, very small.

there is no PEG in my food and i don't take laxatives. and there is a big difference to shoving PEG into my gut and injecting into my deltoid muscle.

The people who administer the vaccine have received training in giving various injections as part of their professional training, ie, doctors, nurses, pharmacists, pharmacy technicians, physician assistants, etc. At the vaccination clinic I’ve been helping at, sometimes a large group of students(med school, pharm school nursing school) will come in and give the injections. But they have received extensive training and are supervised. I believe the risk of injecting the vaccine directly into the blood stream is extremely small. I believe the risk of hitting bone or your shoulder joint is a much greater risk, and i try to direct my aim appropriately.[/QUOTE]

i believe the risk of bad injection is small, too. and in fact the statistics back this up - very few injections result in blood clots, which is kind of my point. do you aspirate before pushing the plunger? why not?

[QUOTE="Amynamous, post: 17915736"][USER="98947"]In the hospital setting, we are strongly encouraged to get the flu vaccine every year. A few people will opt out and are required to wear masks for the duration of flu season so they don’t infect others. On an individual basis, the flu vaccines are not really effective at keeping us from getting the flu. But as a group, they are effective at keeping us from spreading the flu to our patients. This is part of creating herd immunity and is the real intent of mass vaccinations. I wish this last part were emphasized more, but in our “western” society, we are are more concerned about me, me and me than we are about society as a whole. Public health is not about keeping me or you safe and healthy, it’s about keeping those around you (the public) safe and healthy.[/QUOTE]

i don't do flu shots either. the efficacy is pretty poor, which means the absolute risk reduction is probably nil. in my mind, the proper way to be concerned about public safety and health is to optimize my health so i can be a contributor, not a drain. i am a hermit and stay in my digital cave - i do not interact much with society - food store and post office - with a mask. and if i get covid again i will quarantine.

[QUOTE="Amynamous, post: 17915736"][USER="98947"]Lastly, please read about ACE2 receptor sites. I believe the key to this virus is the ACE2 receptors. Although the virus spreads through respirations, it actually behaves more like a vascular virus. The ACE2 receptors are found within the vascular structures in our body such as blood vessels and organs such as the lungs, heart, kidneys, etc. The spike protein adheres to the ACE2 receptors, enters the cell and goes to work making copies of itself by the thousands, until the cell is destroyed and the baby virus particles are released. C19 is the only virus infecting humans to enter via ACE2 receptors and is one of the reasons the virus is so dangerous and can lead to lasting internal damage long after the virus has been defeated.

I suspect that the ACE2 receptors change as we age, allowing for easier attachment by the spike protein in older adults. It’s just a personal theory and i have no proof, but it does explain why older folks are more susceptible. And we age, our immune systems become weaker too, making infection more of a risk. So even though you have the physical fitness of someone twenty years younger(congratulations!), the same may not be true of your ACE2 receptors.[/QUOTE]

why just a theory - where is the fucking science??? it has been two fucking years. i suspect the older folks are sitting on a lifetime of bad health decisions - my theory is that it accumulates.

[QUOTE="Amynamous, post: 17915736"][USER="98947"]I wish you the best of luck with your decision,[/QUOTE]

thank-you. if i end up dying i will be sure to post a streaming video of the last breath.
 

Gry

Well-known member
Veteran
If there is an immunizing vaccine – a true vaccine – I will reconsider my stand ...

There are several of them, globally. Am quite aware of several
efforts at traditional approaches to this.
I know of no magical free market where one can buy or trade them, but do expect that there will be a lot of the major players out there that
will collect info on this, as well as the various results and side effects they do have.
 

Microbeman

The Logical Gardener
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I was going to make the point which Amy made about polyethelene glycol. Not to counter your statement but just want to point out it is considered far safer than magnesium citrate, a common supplement.
 

St. Phatty

Active member
You seem intelligent, informed, articulate, educated. I am not here to try to change your mind. But, i do wonder if you have a 'plan B', in case you are overestimating your body's ability to withstand the new variants?

Plan B =
Vitamin D ... Dr. Roger Seheult
Zinc Ionophore (Quercetin, Ivermectin, or Hydroxychloroquine) ... Dr. Pierre Kory
EXERCISE
General Info ... Dr. Chris Martenson

Some Internet Censors will tell you you can't move from a "co-morbidities" group to a group that has fewer Covid19 co-morbidities.

For example, Obesity.

Once the medical industry knew that Obesity was a complicating factor for Covid19, they could have encouraged all Americans to Exercise (outdoors - not in a crowded room) - to reduce their Covid19 susceptibility.

The Medical Industry even denied that Nutrition could play a role in Covid19 prevention.
 

Sunshineinabag

Active member
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:peacock:
 
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